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Fender Electric XII String Buzz


akpasta

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Hi Folks,

 

I have a 1966 Fender Electric XII with a string buzz gremlin driving me crazy. It's the high G string (.10 gauge unwound), and when you play it (unplugged) you hear some kind of buzz that makes the note not sustain like the others. It is driving me crazy. It buzzes when played open and when fretted anywhere on the neck.

 

Doesn't seem to be buzzing against a fret and it's not buzzing against the neighboring low G string (as is common on fender xii's since the strings are somewhat closer together than other 12's). I've tried replacing the string and dampening areas adjacent to the strings and on the bridge to see if it was rattling from somewhere else entirely. I am totally stuck on this!

 

Some notes on the guitar. I had a new, brass nut made which widened the distance of the strings, which were buzzing against each other and the frets were replaced as the originals were very flat and causing fret buzz that truss rod and bridge adjustment could not fix without raising the action uncomfortably. I haven't tried putting the old nut back on. Obviously I can't try the old frets grin.gif which I replaced since they were flattened out and causing fret buzz all over the place.

 

Is this just one of those things? What do you do?

 

Thanks!

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Measure the action and relief and get back to us. It could simply be a setup issue. It could also be something else vibrating although it should only happen with certain notes. A tuner bushing that's not seated properly might do it. I'm sure someone will have other ideas.

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As I have said so many times before, before I touch anything I measure everything. Neck angle, frets (you said the frets were replaced, are they perfect now?), action, nut slot depth, relief. What are the spacings within each course? When the new nut was installed are the strings set so their bottoms are the same height, tops, or a compromise. What is the spacing between courses and within each course? Does the new nut have nice break angle to the tuners (does it use string trees?)? Have you measure back fret clearance and next fret clearance for each string at each fret?

 

Have you tried taking the primary G string off and seeing if only the octave buzzes? Have you tried replacing the octave G with another one? Did it buzz before you had the fretwork done? Did it buzz with the old nut?

 

Once you have measure and recorded all of that (and decided if anything is wonky) then you can start trying things. The fact that you say its only one string and it buzzes open and at all frets and you've put a new nut on it leads me to suspect either that or a high or loose fret (did you glue them in, were they hammered or pressed from the sides?)

 

As well as all the setup stuff, buzzes can be caused by all sorts of loose parts (I once hat an acoustic with a slightly loose pickguard buzz which drove me crazy and I heard of a loose label inside a guitar that rattled at certain frequencies).

 

Take the measurements, you might find some other surprises, report back

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I tried raising the string at the bridge, which didn't solve the problem. I believe it's too low at the nut. I took it back to the repair shop and they said the nut they had made was maybe a bit too low, they are going to shim it. We will see...

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I tried raising the string at the bridge' date=' which didn't solve the problem. I believe it's too low at the nut. I took it back to the repair shop and they said the nut they had made was maybe a bit too low, they are going to shim it. We will see...[/quote']

 

Well, you haven't posted any of the measurements that I asked for and you have started changing things so it really doesn't matter. The only other comment I'll make is that in my opinion shimming a nut is a bad move - if I happen to cut a slot too low I make a new one. My customers deserve better.

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I tried raising the string at the bridge' date=' which didn't solve the problem. I believe it's too low at the nut. I took it back to the repair shop and they said the nut they had made was maybe a bit too low, they are going to shim it. We will see...[/quote']

 

I agree with Freeman - if they messed up and cut the nut too low, then they should own up and just cut a new one instead of trying to shim / fix the other one.

 

 

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One minor point, its a brass nut so it was probably pretty expensive (and a lot of trouble to make). I can understand why the shop wants save it. Frankly I can't imagine shaping a brass nut and laying out 12 strings - it takes me long enough to make a 12 string nut out of bone.

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Just an update--- for some reason the notification went to my spam folder.

 

The shop filled in the string groove and then re-cut it. So they fixed the brass nut.

 

Follow-up question about nuts...is it common for the string grooves to get deeper over time? I notice another guitar now has a similar buzzing on the high G string. I play that string a lot on the 12 as it's basically the jangliest string :-D

 

Thanks!

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Damn, so after only a year of playing my Danelectro 12 string one of the strings is buzzing this way, and after only, haha, a week or so of the Fender new brass nut, it's starting to buzz (although they fixed that). These are both metal nuts btw.

 

Is the solution to have nuts made with the height a bit higher than "normal" or something? What do you recommend I tell my local shop? Does bone last longer?

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Just an update--- for some reason the notification went to my spam folder.

 

The shop filled in the string groove and then re-cut it. So they fixed the brass nut.

 

Follow-up question about nuts...is it common for the string grooves to get deeper over time? I notice another guitar now has a similar buzzing on the high G string. I play that string a lot on the 12 as it's basically the jangliest string :-D

 

Thanks!

 

So they filled the slots with brass? There is the old trick of refilling bone nut slots with sanded bone (or baking soda) and super glue. Once again, I would do that in an emergency but my customers deserve more. I'd make them a new nut if it was my fault no charge, if they had done something wrong there would be a charge of course,

 

In my humble experience nut slots don't "wear out" or get deeper, at least not over a short period of time. Yes, the strings moving in the slot can abrade them, maybe if you do lots of really deep bends, but not after a week or so. Particularly not with a metal nut. Think about how long frets or saddles last. Look at all the people with vibratos and sharp edged metal saddles - they don't wear out.

 

I'm curious why you specified metal nuts in the first place. I use only cow bone unless a customer specifically wants something else, then its generally a man made material like Tusq or graphite. But I literally make dozens of bone nuts, I make the slots the correct depth for the players style of play, and they last forever. Bleached bone is often slightly softer, it lasts for a few days less than forever.

 

I'm also intrigued by your earlier comment that the octave G string buzzed whether it was fretted or not. Were you getting a front buzz when played open and a back buzz when fretted? That would tell me the nut was made really low. In the absence of any real measurements I guess we'll never know.

 

Anyway, glad you got it resolved. Sort of.

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