Rickenbacker 360/12 12 - saddle bridge intonation issue on B string

[akpasta]

Hi Folks,

 

I've got a Rickenbacker 12 string with a 12-saddle bridge installed. I am using a set of 10-46 gauge roundwound Rick strings. But I have one issue. The B-string set (.13 unwound, unison strings tuned to B) is going sharp when I fret it. I have been able to adjust the individual saddles on all the other string sets and get them to fret true all the way up the neck, but I am having trouble on the B string set for some reason. I've adjusted ALL the way in both directions and it still goes sharp.

 

I can get it so, when fretting very lightly at the 12th fret, it frets true B, so it seems properly intonated there, but in between open note and the 12th fret the strings are going sharp. I suspect this may caused by fretting the strings, causing them to bend, thus causing the note to go sharp. Luckily the strings are unisons!

 

I can't lower the action to attempt to reduce the bending when fretted because the action is already as low as I would want to set it, there is already slight buzz unplugged. In fact I would like to raise it, but that would make my issue worse.

 

Is there anything else I can try? Is this common?

[Freeman Keller]

Twelve strings are notoriously hard to intonate but usually its the octaves, not the unison strings. How many cents is it going sharp? Are both strings sharpening the same amount? Can you measure very accurately from the nut to the center of the 12th fret and from the nut to the break point of the B string saddles. Also measure your 12th fret action.

[DeepEnd]

A couple of possibilities exist. One is to play with a lighter touch so you don't pull the strings sharp. Another is to reduce the neck relief. Too much relief will cause the strings to pull sharp. Of course, it will also lower the action slightly, which you may not want. What does the relief measure now? What about the action? Yet another is to switch to lighter strings. A .012 B, for example, as opposed to a .013, would require less compensation and the best you can do might be good enough. Your third option is to simply live with the guitar as is. FWIW, I got rid of my first electric, a Fernandes Strat, because I couldn't intonate the low E.

[WRGKMC]

Ricks have a dual truss rid. Unless the individual knows exactly what he's doing its better to leave a dual truss system to a professional or you can twist the neck up like a pretzel.

[WRGKMC]

First thing I'd try is a different brand of strings. The B strings may be fine for one model and simply not right for another being too stiff or too limp.

 

Second thing I'd check is the Nut Height. Not sure how old the guitar is or how much fret wear there might be. 12 strings tend to have allot of cowboy chords played on them making flat spots on the lower frets which makes the notes sharp in the root position.

 

When you tune and intonate the guitar at the 12th the notes on the lower frets still tend to be sharp so you compensate by tuning lower.

This makes your upper frets sound flat so you shorten the intonation making the notes sharp all over the place. if frets are worn, you have to fix them, otherwise you're fighting a loosing battle trying to make everything sound good.

 

One thing I do suggest is you get out a ruler and measure from the nut to the center of the 12th fret then measure from the high E saddles to the 12th fret. The High E saddles should be only slightly longer then scale length of you got something oddball going on. The B should be slightly longer then the High E. If the G strings have a wrapped and unwrapped, the G wrapped saddle will likely be shorter then the B and the unwrapped longer then the B.

 

One trick that can help. If your tuner is chromatic, instead of using the 12th fret to set the saddles, go to the very last fret and check the last fret pitches compared to the open strings. The notes there tend to be slightly sharp but you should be able to pull them into pitch pulling with your finger on the string end to end. If you cant bring the string into pitch, then the string's intonation is still sharp no matter what your 12th fret is reading.

 

As you tweak the last frets in the string tension will change the neck relief and you'll likely find most strings will still read the correct intonation at the 12th fret and the only thing that's really changed is how most downward tension is needed to hold the strings down properly.

[Freeman Keller]

If you are new to twelve strings, 10 to 46 are considered light gauge for an acoustic and while being "normal" for an electric, when tuned to concert are at abot 250 pounds of tension. Dropping down two semi tones will reduce that to just over 200 pounds (still a lot for someone use to 9's on a strat). Going to lighter gauge strings PLUS tuning down can make a 12 much more playable and will have the bonus of helping the intonation, for example 6 to 45 at concert is about 225, tuned to D its 180.

[akpasta]

Hi Folks,

 

With a better understanding of how to adjust bridge saddles for proper intonation, I was able to solve this issue. :-)

[Mikeo]

Hi Folks,

 

With a better understanding of how to adjust bridge saddles for proper intonation, I was able to solve this issue. :-)

 

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