Members CadWizard Posted January 14, 2018 Members Share Posted January 14, 2018 Hi everybody, I have just purchased a 2nd hand ESP LTD M-10, I know its a budget model but its going in the shop at the end of the month for a setup and a few minor repairs. I am looking at replacing the stock pups at the same time with a set of Seymour Duncan SH-6`s https://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/mayhem-set, I mainly play metal with a similar style to Killswitch Engage. Do you think this would be a worthwhile upgrade? I can buy them for around £105 ($145) or If there are any other better sets out there for a similar cost then I`m happy to look at those also. If there are any other worthwhile upgrades to guitar like this then I really welcome any advice. Thanks in advance Adz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted January 15, 2018 Members Share Posted January 15, 2018 Have you considered doing the work yourself? It's a budget guitar so it may be a good way to learn some skills. There are plenty of resources online as well as experienced people here to give tips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted January 15, 2018 Members Share Posted January 15, 2018 What don't you like about the stock pups that makes you want to change them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted January 15, 2018 Members Share Posted January 15, 2018 Ok, remember it's a budget guitar, so it doesn't have the best components. So, new bridge, new tuners, new nut, new pots, new caps.... Decide for yourself if it's worth spending the money on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CadWizard Posted January 18, 2018 Author Members Share Posted January 18, 2018 Have you considered doing the work yourself? It's a budget guitar so it may be a good way to learn some skills. There are plenty of resources online as well as experienced people here to give tips I always assumed it would be best to leave it to someone who has experience in guitar electrics however I will definitely look at this option as it would save me a fair bit of money! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CadWizard Posted January 18, 2018 Author Members Share Posted January 18, 2018 What don't you like about the stock pups that makes you want to change them? They just sound very underwhelming and are just not hot enough from what I`m used to (Bareknuckle Nailbombs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CadWizard Posted January 18, 2018 Author Members Share Posted January 18, 2018 Ok, remember it's a budget guitar, so it doesn't have the best components. So, new bridge, new tuners, new nut, new pots, new caps.... Decide for yourself if it's worth spending the money on. Yeah i`m trying to balance that out as there is no point putting a ridiculous amount in to it but I plan on playing it a lot so want to make sure I am happy with it. Out of the upgrades you mentioned which have the biggest impact on sound? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted January 18, 2018 Members Share Posted January 18, 2018 They just sound very underwhelming and are just not hot enough from what I`m used to (Bareknuckle Nailbombs) Any interest in actives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.Grumpy Posted January 18, 2018 Members Share Posted January 18, 2018 new pots, new caps.... Decide for yourself if it's worth spending the money on. There's no tone improvement to be gained from replacing pots or caps. Their effect on your guitar's tone is entirely due to their value. (Ohms for pots, microFarads or nanoFarads for caps) Unless the pots are scratchy sounding or cutting out, I'd leave them alone. Pickups will have the biggest impact on sound by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted January 18, 2018 Members Share Posted January 18, 2018 I agree with Mr Grumpy to a point here. Yes pickups will have the biggest impact. But if the pots have a low taper, meaning that it takes a lot of turning to get a change, you may as well change them out. I personally use my tone pots, so if I have to turn them to 3 or so to get a change, I replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 19, 2018 Members Share Posted January 19, 2018 I agree with Mr Grumpy to a point here. Yes pickups will have the biggest impact. But if the pots have a low taper' date=' meaning that it takes a lot of turning to get a change, you may as well change them out. I personally use my tone pots, so if I have to turn them to 3 or so to get a change, I replace them.[/quote'] How quickly a pot acts depends on its taper, linear vs. audio. Linear pots have their effect concentrated in the lower range (i.e., going from 1 to 2 has the same effect as going from 5 to 10). The action of a tone pot also depends on the value of the cap. A higher value means the control takes effect at a lower frequency, roughly an octave lower for every doubling of value, and has a more pronounced effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CadWizard Posted January 19, 2018 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2018 Any interest in actives? That was definitely an option I considered but coming from a passive set I was thinking it may be a bit too much work to change over, please tell me if i`m wrong on this though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CadWizard Posted January 19, 2018 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2018 How quickly a pot acts depends on its taper, linear vs. audio. Linear pots have their effect concentrated in the lower range (i.e., going from 1 to 2 has the same effect as going from 5 to 10). The action of a tone pot also depends on the value of the cap. A higher value means the control takes effect at a lower frequency, roughly an octave lower for every doubling of value, and has a more pronounced effect. Well you learn something everyday, thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted January 19, 2018 Members Share Posted January 19, 2018 EMGs definitely. $200, give or take, depending on model, for a complete set, including wiring. Keep the old pickups so you can swap them out if you decide to part ways with the LTD. EMGs are more to tonally versatile than Blackouts, IMHO. Also, you can change their dynamics and voicing with a simple voltage change - 9volt or 18volt.As far as complexity of wiring, it's less challenging to wire an EMG solder-less system than a typical passive soldered system. I did a swap out with both my Beast (18volt) and my Warlock (9volt) and the roughest part was the switch - I did have to make soldered connections here. Both of these are the KFK set - 81/85 with a PA-2 boost switch. I've been wanting to try the Glenn Tipton set, but haven't had an opportunity yet.I've never tried the Mayhem set, but have used a Lot of Duncan's, including the Distortion and always prefer EMGs, especially considering they're pretty much the same price.If I were looking to stay passive, Black Winters are pretty killer, Or the Pegasus in the bridge especially if you like clarity. El Diablos are now more readily available, and they're pretty impressive. Still a 'custom shop' item, so they cost a little more.outside of that, bridge and tuners upgrades would be next on my list, more bang for the buck. Dressing the frets as well. Pots, Jacks, and switches would be last if they're not scratchy.that all being said, I did just order an Entwistle dark star nd neodymium pickup for my Evo Dragster - bridge. Never tried neodymium, except in a Squier strat where I swapped the magnets out. Ive heard/read that these are pretty awesome, and have superb clarity, due to the nd magnets. I'm a little concerned over the price being so low, so I'm not expecting Duncan/Dimarzio quality control, lol. But at their price point, I hate to not try one, and even BDSMs would be an upgrade to the crap stock pups. I may post a review after the swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CadWizard Posted January 19, 2018 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2018 EMGs definitely. $200, give or take, depending on model, for a complete set, including wiring. Keep the old pickups so you can swap them out if you decide to part ways with the LTD. EMGs are more to tonally versatile than Blackouts, IMHO. Also, you can change their dynamics and voicing with a simple voltage change - 9volt or 18volt. As far as complexity of wiring, it's less challenging to wire an EMG solder-less system than a typical passive soldered system. I did a swap out with both my Beast (18volt) and my Warlock (9volt) and the roughest part was the switch - I did have to make soldered connections here. Both of these are the KFK set - 81/85 with a PA-2 boost switch. I've been wanting to try the Glenn Tipton set, but haven't had an opportunity yet. I've never tried the Mayhem set, but have used a Lot of Duncan's, including the Distortion and always prefer EMGs, especially considering they're pretty much the same price. If I were looking to stay passive, Black Winters are pretty killer, Or the Pegasus in the bridge especially if you like clarity. El Diablos are now more readily available, and they're pretty impressive. Still a 'custom shop' item, so they cost a little more. outside of that, bridge and tuners upgrades would be next on my list, more bang for the buck. Dressing the frets as well. Pots, Jacks, and switches would be last if they're not scratchy. that all being said, I did just order an Entwistle dark star nd neodymium pickup for my Evo Dragster - bridge. Never tried neodymium, except in a Squier strat where I swapped the magnets out. Ive heard/read that these are pretty awesome, and have superb clarity, due to the nd magnets. I'm a little concerned over the price being so low, so I'm not expecting Duncan/Dimarzio quality control, lol. But at their price point, I hate to not try one, and even BDSMs would be an upgrade to the crap stock pups. I may post a review after the swap. Wow! Thanks for all of the information and the EMG`s have suddenly become and option again! I should have joined this forum a long time ago. Tuners were the next things I had in mind to change over and I have been looking at some Grover locking ones. I will keep you my progress updated on here with my upgrades. Thanks again everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 19, 2018 Members Share Posted January 19, 2018 OK, lets put this in perspective. This is a $200 guitar - that means MF or GC or whoever is selling it paid about a hundred bucks to put it in inventory. I saw a used one for 90. If it were my guitar, before I even considered modding it I would fix everything that affects playability. That means frets - get them perfect. Then setup - that means nut slots (not a new nut unless it was totally necessary), relief and action. It has a ToM so you are limited on setting the radius but you should be able to dial the intonation perfectly. Get the pup heights balanced If there are any mechanical parts that don't work, replace them. Mainly that means tuners - I know your guitar has cheap tuners but if they work why replace them? I live Grovers, a nice set is going to cost you fifty bucks and may or may not fit the bushing hole. They probably won't fit the little screw on the back - fill and redrill. The only reason that I replace nuts is that something is wrong with the one you have - spacing is off, slots too deep. However when I do replace or make a new one, its always bone and I take the time to make it to the players preference. I don't think the nut has any affect on sound, particularly when its only in the picture for unfretted notes. Now play the hell out of it. Play it thru your amp and effects and your style. Fiddle with the knobs, try the switch combinations - really determine what you like and don't like about the sound. Go pickup shopping if you want - assuming you have good soldering skills they are easy to change out. But be honest with yourself - is spending $140 bucks to put new pups in a use $200 guitar a good investment. The rest of the electronics is pretty much as others have said - changing the type of cap makes no difference, changing the value of the cap and/or the value of the tone pot changes where the treble rolls off. Do you actually work the tone pot as you are playing? If so you might like the change. Likewise the volume pot - linear vs log ("audio") taper just affects its sensitivity - how much you have to turn it to get something to happen. Most pots are audio taper - your ears are logarithmic, your pots should be too. If you are fooling around with changing pots you might want to add push-pull and do some coil splitting. Again, assuming you have reasonable soldering skills these are pretty simple mods. Active pickups are a whole 'nuther can of worms. EMG pickups fit a standard HB ring but you need to find a place to put one or two 9 volt batteries plus, once again, do some wiring. Obviously if you don't have a convenient hole for the batteries you'll have to make one. Lets summarize all this. I do guitar setups and repairs. Not seeing your guitar but thinking about all these factors I might give you the following estimate. Parts are not included, you would furnish what you wanted - level, crown, dress frets - 1 hour- setup - relief, nut, action, intonation, pickups - 1-1/2 hour- install new tuners ( ream bushing holes, fill and drill mounting holes) - 1/2 to 1 hour- make a new nut to your specifications - 1 hour- install two HB pickups - 1 hour- install new pot(s), capacitor, etc - 1 hour- install active pickups, route body for batteries - 1 to 3 hours I charge fifty bucks an hour.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 19, 2018 Members Share Posted January 19, 2018 One more additional thought. I'm not crazy about thru body stringing with a ToM - I think the break angle is way too acute and you have a lot of string between the saddle and the ferrule. This can lead to both tuning issues and stability when bending - the stretched string wants to hang up on the saddle and not return to pitch. However that is what you have so you might want to pay attention to it when you do the setup. I would suggest opening the slots to fit each string, radius the slot so there are no sharp places and, assuming you can intonate it consider switching all the saddles so the slopping side is back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted January 20, 2018 Members Share Posted January 20, 2018 A wraparound like this would provide adjustable intonation, break angle, and not break the bank - http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/All_Hardware_and_Parts_by_Instrument/Electric_Guitar_Parts/Electric_Guitar_Bridges_and_Tailpieces/Non-trem_Electric_Guitar_Bridges/Adjustable_Wraparound_Bridge.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=2018-01-gp&gclid=CjwKCAiA7ovTBRAQEiwAo8dPcY8XOZ-JZfBwGSu6JyfKiVWaQ02Xs0kmGatAsdbk0N-2Qag8JaNR8hoCOgMQAvD_BwEAll Parts adjustable wraparound -$42. The stud spacing should be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 21, 2018 Members Share Posted January 21, 2018 Might be a good plan. For some reason the picture I saw of one of these guitars had the little ABR type posts , not the big studs. Any good repair tech would check this before ordering the parts. Also, the OP is in Great Britain I believe - might be something available locally. He would still have the holes thru the guitar and the ferrules but a much better bridge design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted January 21, 2018 Members Share Posted January 21, 2018 I stand corrected sir, those are the smaller posts. Have to pull and re-drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CadWizard Posted January 22, 2018 Author Members Share Posted January 22, 2018 OK, lets put this in perspective. This is a $200 guitar - that means MF or GC or whoever is selling it paid about a hundred bucks to put it in inventory. I saw a used one for 90. If it were my guitar, before I even considered modding it I would fix everything that affects playability. That means frets - get them perfect. Then setup - that means nut slots (not a new nut unless it was totally necessary), relief and action. It has a ToM so you are limited on setting the radius but you should be able to dial the intonation perfectly. Get the pup heights balanced If there are any mechanical parts that don't work, replace them. Mainly that means tuners - I know your guitar has cheap tuners but if they work why replace them? I live Grovers, a nice set is going to cost you fifty bucks and may or may not fit the bushing hole. They probably won't fit the little screw on the back - fill and redrill. The only reason that I replace nuts is that something is wrong with the one you have - spacing is off, slots too deep. However when I do replace or make a new one, its always bone and I take the time to make it to the players preference. I don't think the nut has any affect on sound, particularly when its only in the picture for unfretted notes. Now play the hell out of it. Play it thru your amp and effects and your style. Fiddle with the knobs, try the switch combinations - really determine what you like and don't like about the sound. Go pickup shopping if you want - assuming you have good soldering skills they are easy to change out. But be honest with yourself - is spending $140 bucks to put new pups in a use $200 guitar a good investment. The rest of the electronics is pretty much as others have said - changing the type of cap makes no difference, changing the value of the cap and/or the value of the tone pot changes where the treble rolls off. Do you actually work the tone pot as you are playing? If so you might like the change. Likewise the volume pot - linear vs log ("audio") taper just affects its sensitivity - how much you have to turn it to get something to happen. Most pots are audio taper - your ears are logarithmic, your pots should be too. If you are fooling around with changing pots you might want to add push-pull and do some coil splitting. Again, assuming you have reasonable soldering skills these are pretty simple mods. Active pickups are a whole 'nuther can of worms. EMG pickups fit a standard HB ring but you need to find a place to put one or two 9 volt batteries plus, once again, do some wiring. Obviously if you don't have a convenient hole for the batteries you'll have to make one. Lets summarize all this. I do guitar setups and repairs. Not seeing your guitar but thinking about all these factors I might give you the following estimate. Parts are not included, you would furnish what you wanted - level, crown, dress frets - 1 hour - setup - relief, nut, action, intonation, pickups - 1-1/2 hour - install new tuners ( ream bushing holes, fill and drill mounting holes) - 1/2 to 1 hour - make a new nut to your specifications - 1 hour - install two HB pickups - 1 hour - install new pot(s), capacitor, etc - 1 hour - install active pickups, route body for batteries - 1 to 3 hours I charge fifty bucks an hour.... So much information here and it really makes me realise I need to think about a load of stuff before I swap out the pickups.....The tuners work fine at the minute so will leave them for the moment. Like I mentioned in an earlier reply I am going to take it to the shop to be properly setup correctly so will ask him to check the nut, frets, pickup heights etc.....Luckily he is also a friend so will not be charging me much for the setup. I can see how the cost of the work and parts is quickly going to add up (Even at a reduced rate) so I will have to think carefully about what exactly is worth doing. I really value the advice you have provided me with and it will help me decide the best course of action. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 23, 2018 Members Share Posted January 23, 2018 And please realize that I was not being critical of either your guitar or your plans for it, I just want you you to be realistic about costs and benefits. Keep us posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CadWizard Posted January 25, 2018 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2018 Don`t worry FK I took your advice as you meant it and will definitely keep you all posted. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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