Fender Electric Xii pickups - Curtis Novak replacements (or others)?

[akpasta]

Hi Folks,

 

I recently bought a 1966 Fender Electric XII and it plays really great, BUT, it sounds, like {censored}, honestly. For some reason the pickups are really crunchy. I play through a MXR Dynacomp and have tried the guitar in various Fender tube amps (black faces, silver faces) and even solid state amps (JC-120, Orange Crush) and it is still very crunchy, and not clean or shimmery at all.

 

I tried a Rickenbacker and thought about just selling this guitar, but the Fender feels so much better than a Ric to me that I want to see what I can do with the Fender before resigning myself to growing accustomed to a Ric 12.

 

The next thing to try, I guess, is pickups.

 

Curtis Novak sells a pair that use a heavier gauge wire and is not wound as tightly, he claims they reduce the mids and allow the lows and highs to cut through, producing a cleaner tone. http://curtisnovak.com/pickups/xii-fat.shtml

 

Does anyone have experience with these particular Curtis Novak pickups? Does it get this guitar sounding as jangly as it should sound. I realize it'll never sound like a Ric because it's solid body, but will it at least sound decent?

 

Lastly, this is an all-original 1966 guitar, if I try the Curtis Novak (or any other) pickups and decide I can't get the guitar to sound the way I want, and I put the original pickups back, will that reduce the value of the instrument and can I ethically claim it is still "all original?"

 

thank you!

[jtr654]

BUY a different Guitar. Preferably one you like the sound of . Don't mod a classic.

[badpenguin]

Ok.... you already had it re-fretted. so the term "all original" or "original condition" goes out the window. A few drops of solder isn't going to affect the value, if you change, then go back tot he original pickups.

Personally, this is the 3 or 4th post about the same guitar issue. Sell it, and get the Ric if it feels good.

[akpasta]

I get the frustration. I don't like the feel of the Ric. The Fender feels way way better. If only I could get a clean sound out of it. I'm curious if anyone has experience with getting a clean sound out of this guitar with different pickups.

[jtr654]

YAMAHA has a Pacifica 12 string that nice Bigger neck.( about a 1/4 or less) the price of a 66 Fender or a new Rick.

[WRGKMC]

I have a MXR Dynacomp and its one of my least favorite compressors, Too much swell and noise. I can see where it might get crunchy too.

 

If that's the only pedal you've used then I think that's where your tone quest should begin. An EQ, might get you there. The first thing that popped into my head however was one of these Snarling Dog Very Tone pedals. I bought one years ago and it did wonders for my electric sitar before I installed a 3 way active EQ. This pedal is and improved version of the old Varitone circuits Gibson used to use for pickup tone shaping. This is uses active circuitry instead or passive. (Passive versions had huge amounts of tone and gain suck). This version uses a preamp for gain makeup and it has two different modes for 10 different pickup tones and works great on single coils. You can produce fatter or brighter tones depending on the setting and you have makeup gain for each setting. One does better with single coils and the other Humbuckers.

 

You can pick one up for less then $50 and it should fix your crunch problem.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Snarling-Dogs/VERY-TONE-DOG-Effect-Pedal.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=EAIaIQobCh MI_Y-g7-XK2AIVnLXACh3iKQiYEAQYAiABEgLyC_D_BwE&kwid=product ads-adid^221116235902-device^c-plaid^358833314043-sku^113794820@ADL4GC-adType^PLA

 

You can read the reviews here which are mostly single coil pickup users. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ampli...#productDetail Just realize this is a tone pedal. You wont have thunderbolts coming from god from this thing. Its a specific niche pedal that does what its supposed to and I'm basing that on what you think your problem is.

 

Personally I'd just use a multieffects pedal like this one with amp modeling and design my own patches that would make that guitar sing. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...SABEgKJLfD_BwE

You'd have all the tools you need to fix the problem. You have around 30 amps and 20 cabs to choose from, EQ, Compression, plus the entire range of chorus reverb and echo effects, Noise gate, and even acoustic guitar modeling which will give you that Rickenbacker Byrds jangle. I've used the unit for a couple of years now and there isn't one guitar in the 35 or so I own that cant be made to sound wonderful. of course you'd have to modify the factory setting to get the most ideal tones. It sounds equally well recording or before a live amp. I should mention I have at least 50 pedals and used hundreds more in my 50 years playing and I have a hard time matching it using individual pedals

 

If something like that doesn't work out for you then Rickenbacker and Fender aren't the only ones who make decent 12 strings. Gibson, Epiphone, and several others made decent sounding double necks. heavy Bastards though. You might want to check out some of these. The first two were well known for making good 12 strings and have made them long enough to know what long term stress 12 strings have. A Semi hollow-body would give you warmer tones which is what you seem to be looking for

 

Hagstrom - https://www.adorama.com/hgvidlx12wct...SABEgIkefD_BwE

Gretsch - http://www.samash.com/g5422g-12-12-s...yABEgIZzfD_BwE

Eastwood - https://reverb.com/p/eastwood-sideja...wE&hfid=496694

Danelectro - http://www.guitarcenter.com/Danelectro/12-String-Semi-Hollow-Electric-Guitar-Cherry-Sunburst-1395067580997.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=EA IaIQobChMI0-SL8OHK2AIVl7XACh3hlgXiEAQYAyABEgL0N_D_BwE&kwid=pro ductads-adid^172488555108-device^c-plaid^143950057482-sku^1395067580997@ADL4GC-adType^PLA

Dean - http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/dean-boca-12-string-electric-guitar/519862000001000?cntry=us&source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=EAI aIQobChMI0-SL8OHK2AIVl7XACh3hlgXiEAQYByABEgJhcPD_BwE&kwid=pro ductads-adid^221957295836-device^c-plaid^335491600313-sku^519862000001000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA

Moserite - https://reverb.com/item/7889117-mosr...ficate-in-hand

 

 

 

 

 

 

[akpasta]

Thank you for these suggestions!

 

One followup question that I think I know the answer to. I have experimented with EQ pedals but I am guessing that the Snarling Dog is better than a passive EQ pedal because it has a pre-amp that adds tone instead of just subtracting tone. Is that correct?

 

Any suggestion for compression that doesn't produce distortion? I ordered a Janglebox, perhaps that will help.

[akpasta]

I tried the janglebox pedal last night. My review, it is a light compression pedal with a switch that adjusts high cuts, from "dark" "normal" and "bright" (no high's removed). The janglebox on the "bright" setting is making the guitar sound the best that it ever has, and a little experimentation has revealed that the distortion I was hearing with the Dynacomp was coming from adding highs and cutting lows and mids from the EQs on the amp. For some reason those drastic EQ changes on the amp, after the dynacomp heavy compression seems to distort the sound, but I don't understand why.

 

Because no other compression pedal that I know of has tone controls, I feel like my compression search might be over. BUT, I would still like to shape the tone more, it's still very warm and a little mid-heavy.

 

Ideas.

 

1. EQ- this is not my favorite option, as the dynacomp experiment suggested that EQing produced some crunchyness and loss of clean tone for some reason

 

2. Tone-shaping pedal- Something like the Snarling Dog Very Tone pedal, which is basically an EQ/tone pedal with a pre-amp, perhaps this would shape the tone without distortion since it has a pre-amp inside. Can anyone corroborate this idea?

 

3. Replacement Pickups - Curtis Novak makes two types of pickups for the Electric XII. He claims the stock pickups were wound too tight, which produces the mid-heavy nasaly tone of the guitar and makes it crunch. He makes two lighter wound kinds, a FAT pickup with heavier gauge wire that he says "removes shrill and and bite of over wound pickups. It flattens out the mid spike from a hot pickup allowing the highs and lows to come through more," and the lighter wound standard gauge which I guess it just higher output? At any rate, this could be a way to go. Does anyone have experience with these guitars or these pickups?

[Phil O'Keefe]

I tried the janglebox pedal last night. My review' date=' it is a light compression pedal with a switch that adjusts high cuts, from "dark" "normal" and "bright" (no high's removed). [/quote']

 

If it's what it's rumored to be (I've never tried one personally, but some claim it's based on the Dynacomp), then what the switch is doing is switching between capacitors; if the Janglebox is based on the Dynacomp, it probably uses a pre-emphasis / de-emphasis circuit for noise reduction purposes - boosting the treble pre-compressor, and cutting it by a similar amount post-compressor to reduce noise and hiss. By adjusting the value of the capacitor in the de-emphasis (post-compressor) circuit, you can make the resulting signal darker or brighter. The "dark" setting probably uses a higher value cap (removing treble overall), the "normal" setting probably uses a moderate value capacitor that only compensates for the pre-emphasis treble boost (net result: no overall boost or cut, but less noise), while the bright setting may take the cap totally out of the circuit, leaving only the pre-emphasis treble boost, resulting in a brighter (and somewhat noisier) sound.

 

I made this modification to my Dynacomp. When the right cap is taken out of the circuit, it results in a much brighter than stock sound that is supposedly similar to the Janglebox.

 

 

The janglebox on the "bright" setting is making the guitar sound the best that it ever has, and a little experimentation has revealed that the distortion I was hearing with the Dynacomp was coming from adding highs and cutting lows and mids from the EQs on the amp. For some reason those drastic EQ changes on the amp, after the dynacomp heavy compression seems to distort the sound, but I don't understand why.

 

Again, the treble boost in the Janglebox is probably occurring before the compression circuit, while the boosts you were making occur after it. Boost anything "drastically" enough and eventually something's going to distort.

 

Because no other compression pedal that I know of has tone controls, I feel like my compression search might be over. BUT, I would still like to shape the tone more, it's still very warm and a little mid-heavy.

 

 

That's supposed to be a really good compressor, but there are other compressors with tone controls. Here's just one (excellent) example. Here's another really good one. Here's another. And yet another...

 

If you want to sculpt the signal further, try using an EQ pedal. Try using it both before and after the compressor - there is a significant difference depending on where you place it in the signal path, and neither is "better" or "worse", so try both. I suspect an EQ placed after the compressor and set to attenuate the mids a bit would result in a sound you might like.

 

Remember - with EQ, sometimes it's better to take away what there's too much of, instead of trying to boost everything else to compensate.

 

Replacement Pickups - Curtis Novak makes two types of pickups for the Electric XII. He claims the stock pickups were wound too tight, which produces the mid-heavy nasaly tone of the guitar and makes it crunch. He makes two lighter wound kinds, a FAT pickup with heavier gauge wire that he says "removes shrill and and bite of over wound pickups. It flattens out the mid spike from a hot pickup allowing the highs and lows to come through more," and the lighter wound standard gauge which I guess it just higher output? At any rate, this could be a way to go. Does anyone have experience with these guitars or these pickups?

 

Curtis makes some of the best pickups on the planet and he knows his stuff. Tell him exactly what issues you're dealing with and exactly what type of a sound you're after, and he should be able to give you pickups that will go a long way towards helping you achieve that sound.

[akpasta]

Thank you for your thoughtful response! That is very very helpful. I have a 7-band BOSS GE-7 pedal, and I'll experiment with it a bit more. And I do agree that subtracting is better than adding (or when sound is concerned, DRIVING).

 

I was aware of the Dynacomp issue with the high cut and how the JangleBox is based off the Dyna. There is a local shop with a bunch of compression pedals and I'll have a visit and try every one that has tone controls.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence on Curtis. I am in touch with him now trying to describe what I want.

 

Thank you!

[akpasta]

Hi Folks,

 

Wanted to offer an update. I ordered a set of Curtis Novak replacement pickups for the Fender Electric XII and they solved exactly the issue I was having-- just as Curtis said it would. His pickups use a different gauge wire and are not wound as tightly as the stock ones. They are also hum cancelling as the stock ones are not.

 

The result is the mids are scooped and the lows are highs are boosted and over the sound is way, way more jangly and bright, and not nasaly and thin, and noisy.

 

HIGHLY recommend these pickups for the Fender Electric XII.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Hi Folks,

 

Wanted to offer an update. I ordered a set of Curtis Novak replacement pickups for the Fender Electric XII and they solved exactly the issue I was having-- just as Curtis said it would. His pickups use a different gauge wire and are not wound as tightly as the stock ones. They are also hum cancelling as the stock ones are not.

 

The result is the mids are scooped and the lows are highs are boosted and over the sound is way, way more jangly and bright, and not nasaly and thin, and noisy.

 

HIGHLY recommend these pickups for the Fender Electric XII.

 

 

 

Like I said, Curtis really knows his stuff. I'm glad to hear the new pickups are giving you the sound you wanted!