Members mdbender Posted November 21, 2017 Members Share Posted November 21, 2017 I'm not sure if there's been discussion on this before but I couldn't find it. I have a Gibson ES from the early 70s that I learned to play on. (I'm actually turning 30 in a few days and found it in my parents basement about 15 years ago) I never realized the whole time I played it how flat Gibson frets are. It wasn't until I played a lot of other brands in the last few years that I realized that was somehow their thing. I've read on some other forums that there was some complaint for doing slides (I'm not sure how, doing a slide on any other guitar feels like I'm running over speed bumps). I was wondering, what's the idea behind the flat frets? Or are they just worn down? They are far flatter than anything else I've seen. Is there any disadvantage to flat frets? Do they still do their frets like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted November 21, 2017 Members Share Posted November 21, 2017 That was a Gibson phase. They're referred to as fretless wonders. Great for playing chords, but I can't play lead on them as my fingers slip off the strings when I bend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted November 21, 2017 Members Share Posted November 21, 2017 Another issue with them is intonation, since the actual contact point of the string can be pretty arbitrary compared to something like my main guitar, which has rounded pyramid shaped frets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 IIRC, the first "fretless wonders" were the 50s era Customs. I like them in some ways, but not in others. As Grant mentioned, they're not the greatest for intonation accuracy, and they can feel a bit weird if you're used to playing on taller frets. Also, keep in mind that with older guitars, it's possible the frets have been worked over the years - filed down, re-crowned, etc. There's a good chance those frets are not as tall as they were when they were originally installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted November 21, 2017 Members Share Posted November 21, 2017 Most of the time flat frets on Gibson's is caused by poor fret maintenance. Gibson used wider frets which increased sustain because of the added mass and because they were taller it makes bending strings easier. Many players would let the frets wear flat because re-fretting a bound neck is much more expensive compared to an unbound neck so the likelihood of buying a guitar with low flat frets is much more likely. The crowns on this particular guitar is obviously not original. It could be crowned back to the proper curvature but again, you'd be using up valuable fret material and bringing the need to be re-fretted sooner. You do have enough curvature where fret buzz shouldn't be too bad. I've seen frets that were filed dead flat and believe it or not play quite well. What I'd suggest is you polish them to a high gloss. This will reduce the amount of friction and make bending strings allot easier. It will also minimize the wear on frets too. I have one guitar with super jumbo frets that I intentionally flattened. String bending is a bit harder when the strings get old but the amount of string sustain, especially in the upper registers is incredible. Sliding up and down the neck is super easy too. I'm not going to bother crowning that one at this point because I plan on re-fretting it soon. The neck is all maple and is going to need to be re-lacquered in the process too. Its got spots that are worn through and the wood turns an ugly gray when that happens. I plan on using it for one more gig this weekend then I'll pull the frets and sand the neck then re-fret it. I'll likely redo the body finish at the same time too. I'll probably post pics of the job done here too. I use the tallest and widest frets available on my re-frets for a fluted neck feel and that one is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 21, 2017 Members Share Posted November 21, 2017 The frets on your guitar are original, I can't tell if they have been crowned. The little plastic nibs at the ends of each fret are a result of the way Gibson did their binding (and still does on many models). It makes for a nice feeling fret end for your fingers but it is a complete PITA for those of us who do repair work. The general opinion of both repair techs and vintage guitar owners is that the nibs can be removed and conventional over the top frets installed and it does not hurt the value of the instrument. For those people who insist on keeping the nibs the cost of a fret job roughly doubles. Here is a recent thread at one of the lutherie forums. I had a vintage jazz guitar with nibs and was wondering what to do about them - the people responding are all highly respected repair people http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=49835 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted November 21, 2017 Members Share Posted November 21, 2017 They look the same as my 81 Paul Custom. As Grant has said, it's wonderful for chord work, bending, not so wonderful, but they are an acquired taste. I love them personally, and don't find any real intonation issues, since I tend to give it a slight re-crown once a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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