Tremolo question

[Freeman Keller]

I don't use a tremolo when I play but I frequently get asked to set them up. I'm just curious how those of you that use them like them set. How much do you want to be able to go sharp before the bridge bottoms out (I'm talking about Strat style trems) - a half step, a full step, more? How high do you like the bridge to float off the top? Do you have a measurement you like for the distance between the trem block and the wall of the cavity? How many springs do you like? Oh, and what gauge strings do you use?

[Les Paul Lover]

10-46.

 

At least 1/2 a step, 1 full step is fun too. 3 springs.

With knife edge tremolo, it's a bit different though, as returning to pitch can become erratic as the blade wears off.

 

My Vigier has needles fixed to 2 ball bearings, and that returns to pitch flawlessly everytime.. It has roller saddles too, and zero fret and Teflon nut - the nut here merely is a string guide. Everything is designed for the strings to move as they wish, without hindrance, and the tuning stability when set floating is remarkable.

[nevermind]

A standard strat trem needs no more than 1/2 step up, anything more than that is asking for tuning issues. I like 3 springs and 10-42 string sets

[gardo]

I use a trem sparingly so I have it decked . It does not go up at all only down and have 4 springs . Good tuning stability

I also tend to use the trem arm as a floating anchor for my hand so it needs to be restricted

[Chordite]

If I use one at all it actually is for "tremolo". Never dive bomb

Strats usually I keep decked,

Floyds I float obviously but just palm with the heel of my hand, not the lever which I remove

I was told that Leo Fender designed it to be able to mimic pedal steel so those were the original parameters.

 

Apropos which it is interesting to watch Jeff beck using the trem, often a couple of fingers right down by the pivot for sensitivity

Watch here,

[video=youtube_share;blp7hPFaIfU]https://youtu.be/blp7hPFaIfU

 

 

[Les Paul Lover]

Yes, with a regular knife edge set up, that's the issue.

 

I believe is would set mine flat too, not floating, if I had one of those.

[Freeman Keller]

Thanks everyone. A brief update - I got a nice little strat in for a tune up and during my check it before I start ritual I measured the trem - how high the bridge was off the deck and how much I could bend sharp - which was only about 50 cents (half a step). As I said, I don't use one but that doesn't seem like a lot, so during the setup I did the normal trem setup - loosened the screws, blocked the block, tightened them until the block fell out - now I had 70 cents, maybe a bit more. Decided I better ask you all since again, this just didn't seem like enough.

 

Then of course the world went gray and I couldn't read your comments (great timing, eh?). So I did the next best thing, I called my customer and said "how sharp do you bend a note when you use the tremolo?" He said he didn't use the trem, normally didn't even screw the arm on it. I asked if it would be OK if I left is set at about 50 - 70 cents, he said he was more interested in the rest of the setup. I told him I had that nailed.

 

So this is all good information for the next one I encounter, but for now I've got his sweet little strat all set up and ready to go, but of course I need to make sure. Excuse me, I'm off to play some music.

[onelife]

I set mine up by ear.

 

1st string up 1/2 step

2nd string up full step

3rd string up 1 1/2 step

4th string up full step

5th string up full step

6th string up 1/2 step

 

If I play a standard D chord on the top four strings then pull up on the bar it will give be an inversion of a C Major.

 

It also makes it easy to do some pedal steel harmonized scale things by changing the interval between the strings.

[nice keetee]

I usually use 9's on a Strat. full step up and down, adjust myself. 3 springs. One trick I learned is to pull up on the whammy bar SLIGHTLY after dive bombing flat..Use REAL good tuners too..smooth ALL string contact points. no measurements, use my hearing.

[AlamoJoe]

I have 3 springs on it.....But rarely even put the bar on it. I used to use it a LOT....But I changed.

 

[humbuckerstrat]

I have the whammies on my Strats and Superstrats set to float. With the 6-screw trems, when I set it to float, I put a backplate between the baseplate and the body of the guitar, and I put another spring on to lock it down while I tune and intonate it. With my two-points and Floyds I have Trem stoppers in the cavity to stabilize the trems.

 

I use tens and 3 or 4 springs depending on the guitar. Tens seem to be the lightest gauge I can go and still keep the strings from going out of tune when I do double-stop bends.

 

Even tho my trems are set to float, I don't pull up on the whammy. I just do light vibrato and sometimes I'll divebomb the two-points and the Floyds.

[catscurlyear]

Strat basic trem .I think if you want to set up a trem for someone there is no two ways about it ,you need to be experienced in their use and a few variations. an important part is deciding when it has actually settled down and will stay in tune ,you have to take into consideration every possibility like is it gonna come back in tune when I pull up on the arm and release which strings stay out of tune and what can I do to get them to come back in tune by maybe adjusting grooves in nut or just some lubricant even to the point of having to tug on the string with your finger ,as long as you know what to do then it`s cool..the rate of how much to pull up is a matter of choice .jeff beck I think he sets his so that he can pull up a minor or major 3rd interval at the G string .

[Phil O'Keefe]

I don't use a tremolo when I play but I frequently get asked to set them up. I'm just curious how those of you that use them like them set. How much do you want to be able to go sharp before the bridge bottoms out (I'm talking about Strat style trems) - a half step' date=' a full step, more? How high do you like the bridge to float off the top? Do you have a measurement you like for the distance between the trem block and the wall of the cavity? How many springs do you like? Oh, and what gauge strings do you use?[/quote']

 

Everyone seems to have their own preferences, from blocking it completely, to factory stock setups, to pulling it out and putting in a Floyd Rose...

 

I use .010s, and on a Strat I use three springs, and I have the trem set up so it can dive, but you can't really pull it sharp - I can bend behind the nut if I really need to, and it just seems to stay in tune / return to pitch better for me when it's set up that way. Plus, I do a fair amount of bends against other, unbent strings, and I hate when bending one causes the unbent notes to go flat.... the curse of perfect pitch - I tend to notice stuff like that, and it annoys me. Same with palm mutes, which I also use a lot - this way, I can rest my hand on the bridge and not have to worry about pushing it sharp.

 

My '71 Mustang's vibrato is set stock Fender - you can pull it sharp, or push it flat. They are much less subtle than a Strat trem - a little movement of the bar goes a long way, but they springs are pretty beefy and short, so it stays in place pretty well and takes a bit more effort to move it. Kind of the antithesis of the Jazzmaster vibrato. My buddy Dennis Galuszka set up my Bigsby on my Gretsch, and while it's much smoother and returns to pitch much better now, it's pretty standard too... I tend to use them all differently. Each has its own style and feel, and it really influences how you approach them IMO.

[Les Paul Lover]

Reading alll the comments referring to issues with returning to pitch ..... i wonder why there arent more ball bearing with needle point anchor tremolo on the market. The Vigier design is absolutely fantastic, returns to pitch flawlessly, set flat or floating.

 

No idea about patents / production costs, but when you know that some units work so well, it's a shame to make do with something that has limitations.

[badpenguin]

I tend to have it decked, unless a customer wishes differently. (most of them are old like me, and LIKE things to stay in tune.) 10-46 strings, and usually 3 springs.

​Floyds and Kahlers, different animals.

[badpenguin]

That's like the Zero Point trem from Ibanez. I have one on my Sabre 470DX, and it's the smoothest, most predictable trem I have ever used. Yes, a pain to adjust, but man, once adjusted, it does what you want, before you know you want it.

[onelife]

I Think Paul Reed Smith figured it out with the final answer being locking tuners. The PRS tremelo is essentially a strat trem with some improvements. The bridge sadlles are held in place so they don't move around and the very slight break over the the graphite nut contribute to the stability.

 

I think the biggest issue is with the strings being wrapped around the tuning post. When the whammy bar is used, it relaxes the wrap - which does not always return to the same position it was in before the tension changed. Minimizing the number of wraps helps a lot but locking tuners eliminate the problem.

[Grant Harding]

I almost never use mine, so I keep it decked to the top with all 5 springs. I don't block it though - I still want the springs tight. I recommend that you do the same for your customer. The sound, feel, and tuning stability are WAY different than floating.

 

When I do have it floating I like at least 1/2 step up. I can't stand using a trem that only goes down.

[catscurlyear]

yes i agree, even without locking tuners you can help yourself with tuning issues and trems, if you have as few wraps arounds the tuning post as possible and keep the wrap neat don`t let the string wrap over its self .i`m looking at my jaguar now and on the low E there is one and a half wraps around the pole as you move up and the strings get thinner the wraps only increase very slightly if at all,you would have to experiment ,my top E which is an 11 ,generally has a couple more wraps otherwise that one tends to slip, the Jag trem isn`t that drastic either