Members Freeman Keller Posted July 25, 2017 Members Share Posted July 25, 2017 Pretty dramatic topic header, eh? This is the story of a guitar that was brought to me via the store that I do work for. As I understand it, this fellow had started putting together a Warmouth jaguar/mustang body and neck. He did one of those dipped and dripped finishes (there are YouTubes if you are interested) and then somehow there was a fire. The guitar had a nylon athletic jersy draped over it, the material melted and the guitar was quite badly smoke and heat damaged. Or maybe this was the first torrified electric guitar.... Anyway, the fire gave it kind of a cool patina and I was called to help finish it There was a box of parts and my instructions "Install Kohler (sic) bridge, wire electronics diagram in parts box" I had a few questions and had the owner come over to find out exactly what he really wanted done. There was a used Kahler bridge in the box, pickups and pots had been mounted in the pickguard but no other wiring, and the diagram was a combination of G&L wiring and some notes about how he wanted the pups wired. I asked him if he wanted me t o do the setup - he said yes. This type of guitar has a short 24 inch scale, I made sure that he understood the implications of that, and then he dropped the bomb - he wanted light strings and tuned down two steps. Well, OK.... Seemed like a I'd better ask a few folks here about their 24 inch scale guitars. I gave the owner an estimate for the work and it didn't scare him away. With most of my questions answered I started. Step 1 - Install the Kahler bridge This was a used bridge with no instructions. Kahler has pretty good dimensions and drawings on their website but I had a few questions so I gave them a call. Ended up talking to must have been Mister Kahler for maybe a half hour - great guy, really good information, and I'm really impressed by this bridge. Kudos Made a router template and carefully positioned it on the guitar. This establishes the centerline based on the sides of the neck and the scale length with allowances for intonation adjustment The template is screwed and clamped to the guitar and sawdust is made A hole is drilled with a very long bit from the trem cavity into the main one for a string ground Here is the finished cavity And here is the bridge in place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 25, 2017 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2017 Step 2 - pre setup You've all heard my little rant when I talk about the first two things I always check before doing a setup are the geometry of the guitar and the condition of the frets. Well, in a few minutes I'm going to do a set up so According to Kahler the fret plane when extended to the bridge should be 1/2 inch off the top of the guitar (+/- a fairly small amount) A straightedge on this guitar is about 3/8 above the top (take my word) Like many fenders, this guy needs a little shimming to get the geometry right. I could just stick a Dunlop medium pick or a match book cover or some scrap off my work bench but I'm lazy and have some of these cool StewMac laser cut shims They come in 1/4, 1/2 and 1 degrees - the 1/2 degree is perfect (if you work on many Fenders you need a few of these) While the neck is off I level and crown the frets my long bar is in the back, short one on the right, also a couple of fret files. The bars have 120 sandpaper on one side, 400 on the other. Before doing the fretwork I adjusted the relief flat - I like to start this way and see how much relief the strings will pull into it. Neck goes back on the guitar and its time to come to grips with the wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 25, 2017 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2017 Step 3 - the pickups This thing came with a "loaded" pick guard with the pickups already in. In the neck he has a DiMarzo humbucker of some sorts, in the bridge a Railhammer that looks like a humbucker but really is some kind of P90 but it has separate coils for the top three strings and another for the bottom Both pickup have four wires brought out and the owner has very specific instructions on what he wants them to do. The pickguard also has two three position slide switches. As I understand it, a normal Jag/Mustang would have two single coil pups, one of the switches would choose neck-both-bridge, the other would put them in or out of phase. Not going to work here He tells me that he wants each switch to control its own pickup - the front pup will either be normal humbucking, off, coil tapped. The rear pickup will be in phase, off, out of phase (with itself, but also with the front pup when coil tapped) You got all that? I ask him for a diagram, he says there isn't one, so I start sketching wiring diagrams. Pretty soon I come up with something that looks like this I hook the output wire to a phone jack, plug my little shop amp in and tap on different coils. Hot Damn, it does what I think he wants. As it turns out, those wires between the pickups interfer with some wood, but its a simple matter to move them. Next on the wiring agenda is the control cavity. He has selected a diagram from a G&L guitar with fairly normal treble tone and volume but with a bass cut circuit. Its got some odd ball capacitors and since Radio Shack went away I call a couple of my old electronic buddies. Pretty soon I've got this wired (yes, that is an old Led Zep vinyl record, maybe something by Nirvana would be more appropriate) I string it up and put it away for the night so everything can settle in - setup tomorrow. Time for a cold adult beverage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted July 25, 2017 Members Share Posted July 25, 2017 Cool stuff! It's like living someone else's dreams vicariously, but not in a creepy horror movie way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I always enjoy reading your threads Freeman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted July 25, 2017 Members Share Posted July 25, 2017 That's turning out really cool. You have 'way more patience and better skills than I do. Can't wait to see the finished guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emory Posted July 25, 2017 Members Share Posted July 25, 2017 I love when you post your projects. Concise info with touch of humor and wonder.... I'll never have facilities or ability to do these sorts of things, but love it just the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted July 25, 2017 Members Share Posted July 25, 2017 that`s looking great.yeah that bridge pickup is fancy.i know this takes away from what these guitars are ,but i find giging with these type of pickup switches hard work because i`m one of those who likes to switch pickups a lot and when your in mid battle fartin about with switches is the last thing you want , so i took off the bass cut switch and pickup switches and i bunged on a les paul type selector ,it looks horrible but works..... quicker.looking forward to your next installment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 25, 2017 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2017 Step 4 - basic setup Before I start posting pictures let me make a couple of comments about this Kahler tremelo bridge. First, I personally don't have much use for a trem but I need to know how to install them and set them up for people who do. I have worked on a fair number of Fender trems, installed a Bigsby and blocked a few for people who didn't want them. I haven't done a Floyd or Gotoh or Wilkenson or any of those (yet) but I'm pretty comfortable with the way they work and so far I haven't been very impressed. If you look at the whole idea of a Fender trem its about as back yard mechanic as I can imagine. The Kahler is the complete antithesis of that. This puppy is not only totally engineered it is beautifully manufactured. Its also pretty expensive. I'm going to sound like some sort of shill for this thing but the engineer in me is completely impressed. One screw locks or unlocks the trem. The ball ends of the strings drop into little recesses (you don't have to thread them or hold on to them or otherwise fight them). There is a simple and elegant little fine tuner for each string (since it uses a locking nut). The saddles are roller (as they should be) and are individually adjustable for height, intonation and STRING SPACING. And to complete things, the tension on the trem is adjustable with two little allen screws to compensate for string tension (the same thing the two #12 wood screws do on a Fender). All of this is carefully machined and packaged in a lovely little die cast housing. (Now Kahler can send me my endorsement fee.....) OK, here's how you adjust it. Start by blocking the trem (one set screw) and loosening the set screws on each saddle. I set the height and radius of the saddles so the action at the 12th is close (no picture). Then I set the outside strings so they are the right spacing from the edge of the fretboard Space the strings so there is the same gap between them and dial in the compensation (I like to use a strobe tuner and have set the intonation a hair flat (2 or 3 cents)) By the way, I have strung this with 11 to 54 strings and its tuned D to D (and remember, its 24 inch scale) I can tighten the saddle set screws to hold everything in place and unblock the trem. Put the arm on and adjust two more set screws to center the cam which compensates for the tension of whatever string set you have on it (as you remember, this was a potential problem with the short scale and down tuned strings) Altho I don't particularly set the saddle radius (rather I set the action of each string and check the radius to make sure its more or less reasonable). The little brass thing is the caul I use for pressing frets - I have one for each radius fretboard and it makes it easy to check) Raise the pickups to a good starting height and balance. Play a few scales looking for any wonky frets or buzzes. The action and relief are both pretty low, I may want to raise them slightly but for now its pretty good. Since its ten o'clock in the morning I'm going to stop and have a cup of coffee and let this settle for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bucksstudent Posted July 25, 2017 Members Share Posted July 25, 2017 Amazing work, though I don't like the black pickguard in contrast to the natural body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted July 25, 2017 Members Share Posted July 25, 2017 looks very impressive ,with the 11`s that`ll fit me perfect , i want one.whats that under the vol and tone knobs or did i miss something. oh i see it`s the middle of an atlantic record, ha ha great stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted July 26, 2017 Members Share Posted July 26, 2017 Thanks for the walk-through. Q - are those coil-tapped or coil-split? Tapping is when you intercept the winding of a single-coil (usually around 1/2 way) to tap off the signal with a lower output, whereas coil-splitting is when you split the 2 coils of a humbucker yielding a single-coil output. Many peeps get those confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Yeah, what's the deal with the control plate Freeman? Did you make that, or was it already on the guitar? I can't imagine vinyl provides very good shielding for the control cavity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted July 27, 2017 Members Share Posted July 27, 2017 haha - I had just the opposite reaction to the pickguard. Personal taste is a wonderful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted July 27, 2017 Members Share Posted July 27, 2017 It's a Led Zep record. Helps the guitar rock hard. I would have preferred a normal one to let the cool paint effect take the limelight, but hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 28, 2017 Author Members Share Posted July 28, 2017 It was on the guitar. I just wired it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 28, 2017 Author Members Share Posted July 28, 2017 The humbucker is split as you define it. Switch forward, both coils in series and in phase, switch back, just the forward most coil all by itself (actually, what I did was ground the tap point between the two coils so it just shorts out the rear coil). In the humbucking position it has a fairly nice warm sound, with the second coil shorted it has a brasher more trebley sound. The other pickup is really a P90 with two small coils, one for the treble side with the three slugs and one for the bass with the rail thingie. Its some sort of signature pup, I guess that means it has some sort of signature sound. Anyway, what he wanted was both coils in series and in phase, then both coils in series and out of phase. The out of phase position is much weaker signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted July 29, 2017 Members Share Posted July 29, 2017 Oh, I thought it was a piece of cardboard being used temporarily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 29, 2017 Author Members Share Posted July 29, 2017 The guitar is finished, has settled down and been tweaked and is going back to the owner. Some random thoughts: - As always I enjoyed this project, learned a bit and am grateful to the owner for trusting me with the work. I think he is going to be satisfied with it but told him I want it back in a couple of weeks to check over. He knows that he will have to fiddle with the pickups to get them balanced and maybe adjust the action - he is quite capable of doing that. - The 24 inch scale would not be my choice but with the heavier strings it seems to play fine in standard D to D tuning. The strings feel heavy but I can bend and fret OK and the final tension calculates at 106 pounds. For small hands the scale would be fine but I felt pretty cramped as I moved up the neck. - The guitar itself feels big and heavy. it is over a pound heavier than my LP clone and I think thats a heavy guitar. Probably that big lower bout and the extended bass horn. - I like the bridge a lot. It is expensive but I would certainly consider it for anyone who wants a tremolo. They make models for different numbers of strings, to retrofit other guitars including ToM styles and told me they could even do a fan fretted guitar (I have had a request....), The engineer in me is impressed by the thought that went into all the little adjustments. The ability to drop the string balls into little recesses is nice (you need to back off the fine adjusters but its much better than trying to thread them thru holes in the back). The fine tuners work fine, but I have seen pictures of them bent - the little cams are actually kind of cool. - One minor thing about the trem is that the arm simply threads into the cam and when its tight its pointing straight back. If you put it in the "action" position it flops down by the controls. I guess lots of trems are like that but something like the Bigsby where it stays in place seems like a better design for the player. I'll bet Mr. Kahler could come up with something.... - Locking nuts offend me but I guess its necessary with a trem. Its figity to change strings and tune, however the fine tuners at the bridge mitigate some of the issues. My hand runs into the nut when doing first position chords (won't be a problem for those of you who don't play in the first position) and I think its butt ugly. However my biggest issue is that its darn hard to adjust the nut action - this is a big hunk of metal and to change the string height you either need to file it or deepen/shim the pocket that it sets in. A truely elegant solution to the nut problem would be to take the Kahler bridges and flip it backwards and simply make a roller nut with the up and down and sideways adjustment that the bridge has. You could even compensate it like a Buzz Feiten nut if you added the intonation adjustment. Mr Kahler, are you listening? - I mostly played it in the neck humbucking and bridge P90 modes - the split coil and out of phase bridge weren't appealing but thats for the owner to decide. I found the slide switches awkward to use, they are probably better for changing pickups between songs than actually switching during a song. The bass cut pot works as expected but I probably wouldn't ever use it. - Like several of you, I don't care for the Led Zep album for the control cover but that can be easily changed. I also don't like the rough satin finished neck but that will gloss with playing. Not very good pictures but here is the completed guitar. Again, a fun and interesting project, and I appreciate all your comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted July 29, 2017 Members Share Posted July 29, 2017 i like it well done, but like you i don`t like the look of the locking nuts ,sperzel locking tuners make much more sense and are a doddle to use and they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 29, 2017 Author Members Share Posted July 29, 2017 As I understand the idea of the locking nut used with a vibrato is that when you stretch/slacken the string with the trem the little piece between the nut and tuner doesn't move, so it doesn't bind or go out of tune. A locking tuner just locks the string at the post so you still have the problem at the nut. Am I wrong? I do a simple semi locking wrap at the tuner (half a turn over the string, one or more wraps below) - I'm convinced that doesn't move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted July 29, 2017 Author Members Share Posted July 29, 2017 It also bothers me that the locking nut can crimp the string, probably at the break point. If I retune now I have a weak spot where it potentially can break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted July 29, 2017 Members Share Posted July 29, 2017 when i use the locking tuners ,you put the string through the hole i pull the string quite hard then tighten the screw that locks the string in place ,now it only takes half a turn if that to get the string in tune . Because there is no wrap around the pole there is no slippage or any need for the string to settle in round the pole ,you`re right the nut may cause problems if the string can`t freely move, .strat type necks strings move over the nut on quite a shallow angle so there isn`t a lot of problems.if you break a string you can put one back on super quick and have it in tune in no time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted July 29, 2017 Members Share Posted July 29, 2017 Sounds like you've got a bit of a wiring mess on your hands. Are the 2 sides of that P90 hum-cancelling (RWRP to each other)? Out-of-phase tones do have a weaker signal, but add a great 'honkiness' to the tone that can really cut through a mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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