12 String guitars

[Freeman Keller]

Phil's article about 12 string guitars in rock music got me thinking. I consider myself a 12 string player, listen to a bit of rock (altho I'll admit its not my favorite genre) and frankly could think of only a few songs where I could identify a 12 string (and I avoid Stairway like the plague).

 

So since this is the electric forum and I assume you are an electric player, I was wondering how many own (or have owned or will own) a 12 string. If you have one, is it electric, acoustic or A/E? Is it a double neck? Do you play it like your 6 string, if not how do you play it and why different? Do you play the same songs or some special ones? In a gig or set list, what percent of the songs involve the 12 string?

 

How do you string and tune your 12? Are the octaves in the even or odd positions? Do you do anything "weird" (unison G's, leave certain strings off)?

 

Are you satisfied with the playability, action, and intonation of your 12? How about the pickups? Do you happen to know the nut and saddle spacing?

 

And the luthier in me wants to know - as an electric player what features or changes would you want in your 12 string?

[jtr654]

I own a Gibson B25 12 ,a EDS1275 and a Yamaha Pac 12.I used to own a Gibson Firebird 12 ( the best sounding but was stolen ) Rick Mosrite doubleneck. The Rick was the only one were the string was in the even position . The Yamaha each string is intonation is ajustable. I used to play the EDS1275 all night and then switched it to just song that were needed. The Rick & the Mosrite were the only ones that were hard to play because of the string spacing ( Mosrite was really hard to play both necks extremely thin necks got rid of it quick).

[GAS Man]

My 12-strings in order of purchase

 

~1993 A Takamine/Jasmine 12-String Dreadnaught from the despicable "laminate top" era, but at least it was still from the era where they were made in Korea. But I added a thinline piezo to it, and it's a nice jangly guitar with good play-ability, just less depth than I'd like.

 

From there I added a Ricky 360-12, Fireglo of course.

 

Gibson 50th Anniversary SG-12-String

 

and finally a Danelectro Semi-Hollow 12-string

 

I've long liked the sound of a 12-string, ever since I picked up a used Guild 12-string dreadnaught in a music store back in '84, gave it a few strums of my minimal chord knowledge back then, and to my ears I heard angels singing.

 

Buying the Jasmine was something I'd get in my time machine and do different, since it was about $250 and I could have gotten a solid top Seagull with electronics for just $100 more. Later on I spent that much more adding the piezo to my Jasmine. While it's purdier than that Seagull, it will never have quite as much depth. But that was back in the day when I was not "wise to laminate tops".

But still, it's not a bad guitar and would actually be a great band guitar since the laminate tops are less prone to feedback.

 

I got the 360 because it's so iconic, but yet it didn't have the tone out of the box I expected. Still need to buy a Jangle Box for that. Plus their fingerboards are a bit cramped. Still, it's a beauty and I'll keep it until the day comes along that we click.

 

The Gibson SG-12 has more presence and nice action, so that's cool.

 

But I'd say I'm probably particularly fond of the Dano. Good "bang for the buck" and lots of vibe and comfortable to play.

 

Regarding playing, I often drop the tuning down one-half step and then increase it back up to standard tuning by putting a capo on the first fret. I just find that little adjustment, reducing the string resistance, eliminates some of the hand cramping I get from chording on a 12. But despite owning 4 of the critters, they are far from a mainstay for me. The last time I had one out, I was working on this song.

 

[video=youtube;yoxHGxQw9ws]

 

I keep getting most of the way there on that song, but never have worked on it enough to where I've got it all memorized. Not that tuff, just my bad. ;^)

 

[badpenguin]

My first 12 was a Danelectro Coral Longhorn from the late 60's.

After that died a horrible death due to a collapsing neck block, didn't have one for about 20 years, until I got a Gianinni Cravola from the early 70's. and have that, and a bolt on Epiphone 12.

Generally, it's my "strummin'" guitar where I may tune it DADGBD for a tune or two. I always look for an electric 12, but haven't found one that just grabs me.

[AJ6stringsting]

I just got myself a band saw and planning to make a 6x12 double neck body, with the six string on top with a Floyd Rose body rout and 24 frets. The twelve string side will have ghost saddle system for acoustic sounds.

Rogue had a nice PRS style 6x12 string guitar back in 1997, as soon as I had the money to buy the guitar with case , they were sold out and no longer making them 😵

[Mikeo]

I own only one 12 string guitar, what it does it does well.

 

Unlike other companies that put the bass string the bottom, Rickenbacker puts the bass string on top and the octave string on the bottom.

 

To get that Rickenbacker chime , you still need come compression and a a touch ( and I mean a touch) of overdrive.

 

Some day I will add a 12 string acoustic to my arsenal of gear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Freeman Keller]

It might be good that you didn't get the Rogue. I had a chance to work on one and it was the biggest piece of junk I've deal with in a long time.

 

 

When the neck joint failed the owner just poured some 5 minute epoxy in on top of it

 

 

I charged him extra to remove his "repair", cleaned it up and reglued it but told him that it would fail again in the future.

 

Also probably the most awkward guitar I've ever tried to play but then I ain't Jimmy Page.

[Bucksstudent]

I bought a Ric 620/12 in 2011 after selling my 360, which was a let down in terms of tone and severe feedback problems. The solidbody 620 12 string is beautiful and gets the classic Byrds and Beatles tone.

[badpenguin]

Most 12vers do the octave/bottom thing. In the old days, they did bottom/octave.

[gardo]

I've had a couple of 12 string acoustics come and go..First was an Aria back in the mid 80's .It sounded good in the store but it developed a crack in the top. it was repaired under warranty and sold. .Many years later I got a mid 70's Japanese made Alvarez that I played quite a bit,until my wife got me a Telecaster for Christmas. I put the Alvarez under the bed and even forgot about having it for a while. I ended up trading it for an amp .The Tele and the amp are still my favorites. I have never really considered an electric 12 string..

[t_e_l_e]

a 12 string is the one thing which i'm still missing in my collection.

 

i was able to play a lefty rick330 12 string in denmark street london, beside it was overpriced the neck and the string spaceing was too small for my hands, i also played a 6string 330 and thought the same... so i did not buy a rick, but i did buy my maple lpc a couple of months later on ebay

 

i would consider a lefty 12string dano dc59 or trying a rick again maybe a 360, or a 12 string accoustic

the dano was for some time cheaper than lefty the 6 string dc59 thomann.de (~400eu vs 430eu or so) and i was tempted on one or the other and couldn't decide

 

also thomann has a harley benton house brand cheapo lefty 12 strings accoustic for 129eu, yep might be a PoC but for the money....

 

the reason why i haven't any 12 string yet, beside that there are not many lefty options is, that i'm not sure if it would get any use beside the first couple of honey moon days and than i would have another guitar taking up space

 

[thatsbunk]

I have a danelectro 12 string that's a suprisingly good sounding guitar for the $. It's pretty easy to play compared to other 12's I've tried.

It doesn't get a lot of use, but is good for scratching that occasional jangle itch...

[DeepEnd]

I got the 12-string bug back in the 70's and bought a Sakura S-12-9 acoustic in summer of '74. All laminated but it had a great tone. I don't play it any more because it's a bear to tune and the top is bellying. I always tuned it to Standard and in later years as a 10-string with the E and A octaves removed and the G in unison. I always just played it the same as my 6-string.

[stormin1155]

I have found that I need to keep one acoustic and one electric 12-string in my stable. I seldom use either of them, but if I don't have them, then I will need them. Having them seems to reduce the need for them, hence the chance that I will make a stupid purchase decision. I've been through it several times, and come to accept that's just the way it is. My acoustic is a Seagull C-12, and my electric is a Harley Benson, which is sort of a Ric-inspired small semi-hollow body. About once a year I'll dust each one off and drag it to church for a song or two.

[Phil O'Keefe]

I have two twelve string guitars - a late 90s Danelectro DC-12 that was thrown into a gear buy for a lot of studio equipment for so little extra that I couldn't pass it up (and that was intended as a make-do guitar until I could get a Ric 12 but is so good that I've pretty much set the idea of getting a Ric 12 aside) and a Taylor 150e electro-acoustic.

 

I like the necks on both guitars quite a bit. I'm really picky about necks and how they play on my personal guitars since I have rather short fingers and my hands cramp and tire quickly on fatter, beefier necks.

 

How do I approach playing them? Think Tom Petty, The Byrds, The Beatles... I don't have Leo Kottke's chops.

 

12 strings are wonderful studio tools - great for layering and accent parts, chimey arpeggios, etc.

 

Intonation on the Dano is surprisingly good, but each saddle is adjustable, which helps tremendously. It holds tune very well too. The Taylor's intonation is pretty good too - it has a compensated saddle (B string).

 

Both are set up in standard 12 string tuning, with all 12 strings. Light gauge strings - coated / treated if available - who wants to change strings on a 12 string any more often than necessary? Octave strings are first, followed by the larger strings in the usual non-Ric order.

 

Pickups in both are stock - two Dano lipsticks and a Taylor Expression System 2.

 

 

 

Tele, the Ric you want to check out that has a wider neck and better spacing is the 660/12. Most of the rest of them have really narrow necks.

 

 

 

 

[t_e_l_e]

 

 

Tele, the Ric you want to check out that has a wider neck and better spacing is the 660/12. Most of the rest of them have really narrow necks.

 

 

 

 

looks interesting but isn't it a solid body? and i haven't seen a lefty of it

 

funnily i prefer my strat with 41mm nut width and to me its really a difference to the now 43mm standard, i narrowed it down that this is one major aspect why i didn't liked my MIA strat.

a 330 6 or 12 string has a 41,4mm nut width, but the string spaceing felt too small for me which one the strat is not..... yeah but its more than 10 years ago i have played a rick in the shop... damn time flies by...

 

anyhow i'm not in the need now and i do not have any gas which i need to cure

[Phil O'Keefe]

Yes, the 610 / 620 / 660 (all have the same basic body shape) are all solidbodies. But they still play and sound like Rickenbackers. I have a 610 six string, which I like quite a bit... but if I was going to get a Ric 12, I'd go with a 660/12 instead of a 610/12 or 620/12 simply because of the wider neck, which I think is really helpful when you're trying to cram 12 strings in there.

 

There's a really cool video (which I can't embed since it's restricted - sorry) of Mike Campbell from the Heartbreakers talking about / demoing his 660/12 (the one Tom Petty is holding on the cover of Damn The Torpedoes) that shows how cool they sound... it's really worth clicking on the link and watching it:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNUW...layer_embedded

 

I also totally buy into his philosophy regarding different guitars and the different "colors" they provide when you're recording - which is why I have several different ones myself.

[t_e_l_e]

^i hate stories where someone got a big steal... never happens tonme that i get a rick for 150 bucks and i would not dream about a lefty and for sure wouldn't have this history...

 

cool story tough

[Phil O'Keefe]

^i hate stories where someone got a big steal... never happens tonme that i get a rick for 150 bucks and i would not dream about a lefty and for sure wouldn't have this history...

 

cool story tough

 

Well hey, you have to remember that was quite a long time ago too - they released their second album ("You're Gonna Get it!") in May of 1978, so since he said he bought the guitar while they were working on that record, it was probably late '77 or early '78. Things were a lot less expensive in 1978 than they are today.

 

But still, what a deal, huh? A '64 Ric for a hundred and fifty bucks? That's a great deal no matter what year we're talking about!

 

Hopefully a great deal will land in your lap at some point. Keep the faith brother!

[t_e_l_e]

 

Well hey, you have to remember that was quite a long time ago too - they released their second album ("You're Gonna Get it!") in May of 1978, so since he said he bought the guitar while they were working on that record, it was probably late '77 or early '78. Things were a lot less expensive in 1978 than they are today.

 

But still, what a deal, huh? A '64 Ric for a hundred and fifty bucks? That's a great deal no matter what year we're talking about!

 

Hopefully a great deal will land in your lap at some point. Keep the faith brother!

 

it was just a rant not meant so serious...

things were not less expensive, money was more worth, also meaning people did not earn that much money either, but they could buy more, and in '77 $150 was a hell a lot of money..... if i remember corretly what my father told me 150 ould have been almost half of his monthly income....

 

and when i think about it, i did not get a stea, but i had several good deals, e.g. an original roland beebaa for 150euro when it was about the market price and now they sell for 600 on ebay...

[Chordite]

I've had a couple of acoustic 12s. I always found them to be less of a tune maker and more of a "texture".

It is a delightful sound to have in the armory though.Very good for busking stuff like The Jam's That's Entertainment

[archiemax]

Me & 12-strings go back a ways--got my first from Carvin back in 1968 ($269 with hsc) when they were moving their operation from Covina CA to San Diego; it's a 335-style (body made by Hofner); gave it to my brother a couple of years ago. 'bout the same time as I got the Carvin I got a Klira acoustic 12 that was my main guitar for the gospel group I played with through the mid-70's or so. Had a Goya acoustic 12 after that (spruce top, maple body) that was pretty nice too. Currently have a mid '60s Aria 335-style (bolt neck) and a Yamaha dread-size 12 with the rosewood body & diamond inlays that's probably 20 years old or so; installed my own piezo & preamp setup in it. Sounds great & the action is amazing. Made an "identical twin" of it for a friend of mine who was really stoked to get his hands on it, though he still mainly plays a 6-string.

[Verne Andru]

I have a Dano double-neck with a 12 and an old '50's AGS 12-string dreadnought.

 

Once I discovered Nashville tuning I switched both to 6 string because:

 

1] In general I find the extra courses on a 12 make playing more difficult and limits the guitar.

 

2] I get a better 12-string sound (no phase cancellation) double-tracking a standard 6-string with a Nashville strung 6.

 

3] I prefer a 1 3/4" nut and that's the usual width for many 12 string necks.

 

So I picked up a cheap 3/4 size acoustic at a garage sale like this one:

 

 

and strung it with octave strings from a 12 set. These guitars a known for having a thin, middy tone that sounds horrible alone but just so happens to fit perfectly in a mix doubled with a standard 6. I call it Nash.

 

My applications are primarily studio. If you're a live player I guess a 12 or a synthesized 12 sound is still the way to go.

 

[pekelnik]

My brother in law bought this 12 string Ibanez, it is a 1975 or earlier, before they started stamping serial numbers and changed the headstock. I cleaned it and reglued the bridge which was peeling off and made a bone saddle for it. It plays great.

 

[DeepEnd]

That looks like it turned out really nice. Lifting bridges are fairly common on 12-strings anyway. I'd love to see closeup pics of the bridge.