Members hellion_213 Posted May 1, 2017 Members Share Posted May 1, 2017 I'm looking for a new amp, the goal being to go stereo on-stage. I tried a small Guitar Research T6 hybrid 60watt, 4x8, just didn't care for it. Now I'm looking at a maybe a 100w Dime Half Stack or B-52 AT100. So my questions are - would it just be easier/better to simply get another cab and run it across to the other side, or AB into another amp? I'm the only guitar player in the band, and kind of think it may sound almost like two different guitars with a whole other amp, but I definitely want something that will compliment the 6505. Music style is old-school Thrash/Death - think Skeletonwitch, Slayer, Death, Kreator, mixed with a little Obituary or Kataklysm. No crazy dropped tunings or 7/8 string Djent crap, just C# standard six string. Thanks! http://www.wwbw.com/Dime-Amplificati...fBkaAuqG8P8HAQhttp://www.guitarcenter.com/B-52/AT-100-100W-Tube-Guitar-Amp-with-Tri-Mode-Rectifier.gc Either can be picked up used for around $500 or so for the half stack. I do kind of prefer the idea of another tube amp. Was leaning towards Orange, but hate to spend that on a secondary amp, and prefer the sound of the 6505. I guess that could be another option, a second 6505 eq'd a little differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 If you're the only guitarist, I'd recommend a second amp over a second cab - especially if you use effects like delay. Stereo effects, along with different amps and EQ settings will give you more of a "two guitarists" effect than just adding another cab will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted May 1, 2017 Author Members Share Posted May 1, 2017 Thanks Phil! That's kind of what I thought, but the advice of others that have been there can save a headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Les Paul Lover Posted May 1, 2017 Members Share Posted May 1, 2017 That's a shame you'd rather miss out on Orange amp, because they probably are the only amp maker that will really give you a marked tonal difference on your 6505. Most non Orange brands really focus on high mids for their core tones, whereas Orange amps are more about the lower mids and work wonders at thickening the mix. I've witnessed a band with 6505 and Orange RV50, the time was really good - though i thought the Orange sounded better (I'm a self confessed Orange fan boy, they are the only 3 amps I've kept). Certainly do try to get another amp. Why not a bass amp, if you can find one that has some gain too? That too woukd thicken your tone quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted May 2, 2017 Author Members Share Posted May 2, 2017 Don't get me wrong, I Love Orange amps. Played through a bunch, they're terrific! A lot of bands we gig with use them, But there's a Much higher price tag associated with them, and I struggle to justify it after you pass their 15-30 watt amps. Hadn't really thought about a bass amp. May check out that option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtr654 Posted May 2, 2017 Members Share Posted May 2, 2017 Get a combo of some kind 2x12 than run a Stereo type of time delay FX. Set one clean full spectrum range and the other a different EQ ( 6505) for the sustain/dirt/compressed sound. Also try just FX through clean only and 6505 dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 You're welcome! Please keep us posted on what you end up getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Get a combo of some kind 2x12 than run a Stereo type of time delay FX. Set one clean full spectrum range and the other a different EQ ( 6505) for the sustain/dirt/compressed sound. Also try just FX through clean only and 6505 dry. Good suggestions IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted May 2, 2017 Members Share Posted May 2, 2017 I've taken two amps to many gigs and used stereo chorus into a stereo echo unit. I'd run dual bass amps too and had a guitar and bass amp on either side of the stage. In the one band I'd swap playing bass and the bass player swapped playing guitar. Having a pair of amps on either side made things a whole lot easier because you didn't have to change sides of the stage, just use A/B switches to swap between amps. Other times I played 3 pieces and used a second amp on the other side. This helped the bass player more then it did me. He could hear the amp but I sure didn't from my side of the stage. If I walked out center stage I could hear it but in large clubs sound is pretty much line of sight. For all the extra gear you have to haul and the fact real estate on many stages is small, it just wasn't worth the hassle. Besides the bass player is having a hard enough time hearing his own instrument. Add to that, the instrument isn't stereo to begin with - its mono. Using different amps only gives you small differences is separation by echo or movement by chorus rotation, and most of that gets eaten up by all the room reflection. By far, the best place to use stereo effects is in the PA and everything else can be handled by your stage monitors. Stereo amps are mostly heard by the people on stage, not by the audience. You can use different effects in the monitor vs the stage amp and get a stereo effect there. The rest I wouldn't be bothered with unless you're being paid to lug all that extra gear. Carrying two amps in the house at 3 in the morning after gigging for 4 hours gets old real fast, especially when you got to get up the next day and do it again. Like I said, its fun to try, just so you know how it will sound, but to be honest, and audience would rather see a guitarist with plenty of energy and stamina on stage vs some guy who looks like he's been steam rolled from hauling two amps around everyplace. If they are small combos you can carry with one hand, I can see it. you can stack them on small stages or spread them out on larger ones, but big cabs, I'll pass. Been there and done it. If I had paid roadies I'd surely use a pair of amps because I like having the tonal variety of a Fender and Marshall together. Otherwise I need to be paid to haul it all. I like being able to pack up and get outa dodge quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cyborg Posted May 3, 2017 Members Share Posted May 3, 2017 I'm looking for a new amp, the goal being to go stereo on-stage. Not to burst your "stereo" bubble, but take it from a retired pro guitarist with several 1000s of gigs on my resume. If your focus is to spread out or widen your sound in a live venue, then 99% of the folks in the crowd will not notice it. They primarily want to enjoy the show and are nowhere near the "audio cork sniffers" that you and I are. Splitting cabs on stage will simply dissipate your volume level and dilute your precious tone. For studio recording, of course, it's a completely different environment. My suggestion (live) is to know your house sound man's tendencies and rely on his expertise to make you stand out as best as he is able to. My guess is that you'd rather concentrate on your tone and performance rather than the house board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Not to burst your "stereo" bubble, but take it from a retired pro guitarist with several 1000s of gigs on my resume. If your focus is to spread out or widen your sound in a live venue, then 99% of the folks in the crowd will not notice it. They primarily want to enjoy the show and are nowhere near the "audio cork sniffers" that you and I are. I agree with you 100% here. The audience doesn't care about the gear, and while they do care somewhat about how things sound, they're far less interested in how things sound than the musicians are. And depending on where they're at in the venue, they could easily miss out on some things in the mix if the person mixing FOH goes too crazy with the panning and stereo width. Splitting cabs on stage will simply dissipate your volume level and dilute your precious tone. For studio recording, of course, it's a completely different environment. Wait - are we talking about running multiple cabinets with a single amp (and possibly splitting them so that they're on different parts of the stage) or are we talking about dual amps in a stereo configuration? Are you suggesting that a point source is the best way to go? If so, would you say that a single cabinet beats multiple cabinets? Does a single speaker beat a cabinet with multiple speakers? Because if that's where you're headed, I'd have to respectfully disagree... My suggestion (live) is to know your house sound man's tendencies and rely on his expertise to make you stand out as best as he is able to. My guess is that you'd rather concentrate on your tone and performance rather than the house board. As a studio (and former live sound) engineer with thousands of hours behind the boards, I certainly appreciate it when a band works well with the engineer. But as a guitarist, I happen to like running in stereo - even in a live situation. True, it's not likely to be appreciated by the audience, but my reasoning is that if it makes the guitarist happier, if they find the sound more inspiring that way, then why not? I guess that's the producer in me - I think musicians who are happier with what they're hearing tend to be more inspired and perform better. As an engineer, I am certainly able to mic up a stereo rig in a live situation - whether or not it's going to be conveyed that way to the audience is a matter of the venue and the sound system (and again, the audience member's location in the room), but there's no reason from an audio engineering standpoint why that would necessarily have to result in a inferior sound from a FOH mixer's perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted May 3, 2017 Author Members Share Posted May 3, 2017 I hear you on the Quick Load In/Out! I like to setup quick, have time to tune and start warming up before the drummer even had his cymbal bag open, lol, and can with my setup right now. What's killing me live, I guess is FOH sound in some cases, but in Clubs where they're not mic'ing the guitar and my rig is solely on its own, I'm blasting one area of the club while being drowned out by the bass on the other. So I figured - two sides = two cabs, and then took that a little further and figured, well, bands with two guitarists run two amps, why not? But no, I Really don't like the idea of lugging two Half Stacks around at 3am when I get home after a gig, let alone the extra setup and breakdown. I'm just hoping to even the levels when gigging without FOH, and maybe to blend the two when mic'd up. A lot of venues that do have a decent FOH and soundman, seem to adjust the stage monitors during a show, either that or I'm going deaf halfway through, and this might help that too. Ah, if I try it and it's just too much work, I'll have a killer bedroom amp to drive the wife crazy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted May 3, 2017 Author Members Share Posted May 3, 2017 True statement in the beginning, can't argue with the majority of the crowd not caring as much. Truth be known, when you're gigging with other bands, it's those other bands that notice stuff like that, not necessarily the crowd, as far as why they're hearing what they're hearing, but if you have crappy tone, all but the most drunk will, on some level notice. They may not why it was crappy, but they'll know it wasn't good. 2nd paragraph about tone dissipation - if I were to run two heads into my cab, and flip it to stereo, why would my tone dissipate? I guess singularly, each seperate tone would, but level-wise, I wouldn't think splitting a 4x12 would be any different than running seperate 2x12s on top of each other. 3rd paragraph - True enough, though as I mentioned to WR - some of the club's/bars we play do not mic the cabs, and it's more in those situations that im mostly concerned about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted May 3, 2017 Author Members Share Posted May 3, 2017 That sounds like it'd be at the very least cool to try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtr654 Posted May 3, 2017 Members Share Posted May 3, 2017 Hellion the distance and space between speakers makes the difference when running stereo. So running 2 amps through a 4x12 isn't that effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted May 3, 2017 Author Members Share Posted May 3, 2017 I realize that, I was merely curious where the dissipation he refers to would come from. I'm not clear on what he's driving at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted May 6, 2017 Author Members Share Posted May 6, 2017 Picking up another 4x12 this weekend. Haven't landed on a 2nd head yet. Gonna run twin 4x12s at rehearsal, see how that goes. I think I've also just about talked myself into a Windsor head from that other thread, Lol! They really are cool and I haven't played one in years. Ah, no rush.Edit - well, the dude I was going to get the cab off of sold it before I got there. Said he got a better offer after talking to me. Would've appreciated a text or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted May 7, 2017 Members Share Posted May 7, 2017 I agree with you 100% here. The audience doesn't care about the gear, and while they do care somewhat about how things sound, they're far less interested in how things sound than the musicians are. And depending on where they're at in the venue, they could easily miss out on some things in the mix if the person mixing FOH goes too crazy with the panning and stereo width... Back in the 80s I was in a band that opened up for The Box. I was probably one of the very few people who noticed that there were two SM57s on the Roland JC-120 that the guitarist was using. Standing out in the audience I certainly appreciated the stereo chorus on the guitar and I'm sure that others, even those who didn't know what a Jazz Chorus amplifier is, enjoyed the spaciousness of the sound as well. btw, the guy doing FOH for The Box was very good at what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cornholio Farquarth III Posted May 7, 2017 Members Share Posted May 7, 2017 Just get a Line6 and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted May 7, 2017 Author Members Share Posted May 7, 2017 I can't tell if you're serious or not, but I can't stand most Line 6 crap, quite possibly worse than the crap Crate was pumping out for years or Randall's RH series junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Les Paul Lover Posted May 7, 2017 Members Share Posted May 7, 2017 You know the Windsor is firmly in the classic rock territory? It might complement your 6505 nicely, just making sure you know it isn't a high gain head. Mind you, a lot of metal bands actually use a lot less gain than one would think. And really sorry to hear you had to drive somewhere to find out that 412 was sold. Some human beings are pretty ****************. If they didn't like your offer, they could turn it down. They didn't need to let you drive wherever as punishment, that's just so bad..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted May 7, 2017 Members Share Posted May 7, 2017 CF is never serious about recommending Line 6. It's just his standard response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted May 7, 2017 Author Members Share Posted May 7, 2017 I was half joking/half serious. I think the two could complement each other. I probably fall into the less gain category. When I was younger, it was all about the gain - more = better. But now I have come to the realization that the more gain you use live, the higher you have to turn up to cut through. Yeah, dude OKd the deal, then took a 'better' offer, that's not cool. If I tell someone OK on a deal, I follow through so long as they say they're coming. That's just the thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted May 8, 2017 Members Share Posted May 8, 2017 If you want a small stereo rig that scales from nothing up to a large venue and includes everything you could want you could try: No PA Rig:Fractal AX8 (or Line 6 Helix)--->Stereo into 2 little amps PA Rig:Splitter Box --->Fractal AX8--->Stereo into PA --->Little amp onstage (personal monitor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted May 8, 2017 Members Share Posted May 8, 2017 Now that Line 6 is Yamaha I expect the sound to be much more musical in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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