Noobie question about how to get that quiet on the verse / loud on the chorus sound made popular by bands like the Pixies? how do YOU do it?

[Danoman]

Noobie question about how to get that quiet on the verse / loud on the chorus sound made popular by bands like the Pixies? how do YOU do it?

 

I play guitar in a alternative / punk band and we basically play loud all the time, and even louder on the leads and solos.

my rig is basically a 2 pickup Danelectro into a Pro co rat2 > a Electro Harmonix > a clean Fender 18/30 Bassbreaker tube combo amp.

the rat is on all the time, and then i kick on the 1 knob muff overdrive for a solo boost. our sound is basically a one trick pony and i wanted to do something to add some dynamics to our sound.

I was wondering what some of you guys do to achieve this. I'm thinking kinda like Nirvana's In Bloom, Smells Like Teen Spirit or countless pixies songs.

[thatsbunk]

Most probably use the guitar's volume knob for this, but I like to keep my guitar's volume pretty much dimed (i know I shouldn't but it just sounds too muddy for me otherwise). That being said, I like to use a signal booster for the loud bits (I use an EH LPB-1).

[Grant Harding]

The most important thing is the arrangement. You need the whole band to be onboard with the feel you want in that bit. Otherwise you'll turn down and disappear in the mix.

 

How you turn down has lots of options - just the volume control, or a boost pedal set for a cut, or maybe an EQ pedal to change the flavour of the sound while cutting it? I prefer something I can step on and get a reliable result in the heat of battle without needing a finger spare.

[hellion_213]

Not a volume boost or cut or anything, but I use my Whammy and EX 601 Auto-Wah to add flare to certain parts in several songs. The Auto-Wah on a simple cocked setting adds a lot of flare to a lead or solo, and the Whammy in chorus mode can really make certain rhythm or lead parts stand out - either double up high, or bury the treadle to the bottom to add a ton of low end.

I'm with Grant. While I dig my PA2, I really prefer foot controls as much as possible during a show, mid-song. And you've got to have the whole band on board, or you're just going to disappear.

[badpenguin]

I'll go even simpler. DYNAMICS. Play at a slightly less volume, when the chorus come up, play louder.

[TheForkWigger]

4 knobs and a 3 way switch

 

 

 

Question: What are the Rolling Stones?

[Les Paul Lover]

One of your issue here are your effects. Both the rat and the BMP aren't dynamic effects. They sounds ace for what they do, I have a Muff derivative myself, but neither the Muff northern rat do dynamic playing. When they are on, it almost impossible to get volume variation depending on picking / strumming.

 

The pixies, for example, used valves amps, I think the jcm800, well driven. Set right, these amps can play almost clean, and comparatively quieter than when you dig in, when the volume jumps a bit and and it gets pretty dirty. Add a boost or OD for heavier part to taste.

 

You won't be able to do that with a Muff or a rat.

 

I hope this makes sense and helps !

[Bucksstudent]

Kurt Cobain's live sound wasn't nearly as good as his studio tone. It wasn't perfectly clean, of course, and he used distortion pedals for his gain exclusively.

 

Consider Page too. When you see him messing with his volume controls on a Les Paul during "Since I've Been Loving You," on The Song Remains the Same film, you'll notice he's very selective about how he rolls them and where he wants them. The change from clean to distorted is entirely from his guitar volume.

 

However, you don't have to be like that these days. With all the technology and different pedals, you can get a good loud clean tone to complement rather than compete with your gain. But to me, the best way to pull off the clean verse/distorted chorus is by messing with your pedal's volume and relying on it for your distortion. Of course, my Marshall has four channels and can pull off this dynamic better than a lot of classic amps, but you have the ability with your current rig.

 

Then again, I don't play live and have produced my own stuff since I was 14, so I'm not nearly as experienced as others here.

[hellion_213]

The Bassbreaker should have enough onboard gain to forego the distortion pedals as well, so using that may help.

[Mr.Grumpy]

the rat is on all the time, and then i kick on the 1 knob muff overdrive for a solo boost..

Your RAT should have a footswitch. Familiarize yourself with its operation.

 

A previous incarnation of my band did a soft/loud song, at the time I was playing an Aria Pro with a Gibson style pickups and electronics: two humbucker pickups, two volumes and two tone controls. Quiet part was done with the neck pickup only and volume rolled down to 3 or 4; loud part was done with the bridge pickup with volume and tone completely on. I didn't have to look down for a footswitch, just flipped the pickup switch on my guitar.

 

 

[eyobeez]

Consider Page too. When you see him messing with his volume controls on a Les Paul during "Since I've Been Loving You," on The Song Remains the Same film, you'll notice he's very selective about how he rolls them and where he wants them. The change from clean to distorted is entirely from his guitar volume.

 

^This. I struggled with the same thing until I realized that Joe Perry and Brad Whitford were constantly making adjustments with their right hands in the Aerosmith concert DVD I used to watch as a kid. They'd strum a chord and adjust a volume or tone knob with a pinky, or attack a different section of the strings (near the neck, near the bridge, or somewhere in the middle), or use their fingers to pluck the strings. Experiment with different touches or ways of attacking the instrument. Use your fingers, then a pick, then try a ball peen hammer! Just kidding... But it's important to learn to use your picking hand and volume knobs to control your sound. It might not feel natural at first, but really listen to what's coming out of your amp while you make these slight (or intense) adjustments with your picking hand.

 

 

 

[WRGKMC]

I'll go even simpler. DYNAMICS. Play at a slightly less volume' date=' when the chorus come up, play louder.[/quote']

 

I'll second that.

 

I'll add its the whole band that has to use coordinated dynamics which are built into the musical composition.

 

The drummer especially has a great deal of dynamic control over how loud the bands dynamics. When a drummer lays into the cymbals hard, the band needs to match his dynamics. When he drops back to using closed high hats, or even drops off the cymbals entirely, the rest of the band often does the same.

 

How you achieve dynamic control on a guitar is another matter. There are 3 basic ways. Volume control, Gain control and actual string dynamics. Most players use a combination of all three but each can be very different.

 

People interpret drive and saturation with being loud, but we know as players actual dB levels to match other instruments can be adjusted without changing the amount of drive by simply adjusting the volume after the gain pedal.

 

Next you can adjust the input signal change the saturation amount going from clean to full saturation as with your guitars volume. Peoples ears recognize this as simply turning an amp up from clean to driven. It also have more impact emotionally to the listener.

 

The third method is controlling saturation through playing dynamics. You set the gain so it has maximum saturation when you pluch the strings the hardest, and produces the cleanest tones when plucking the strings lightly. The player then has complete control over how loud and how saturated notes are dimply by how hard he digs into the strings.

 

To me this third method is by far the most artistic and is used by most accomplished artists. It requires the performer to have control over his right hand when playing and allows the musician to express his notes emotionally like an acoustic player does.

 

The other two methods require the use of electronic attenuation which can distract the player from playing notes. I'm use a combination of all three with the use of a volume pedal, volume knobs and switching or stacking gain pedals.

 

If I switch from a clean or crunch rhythm to a lead part, I'll often use a pedal to kick the saturation level up. Its not necessarily louder but the saturation level makes it appear to be louder.

 

Adjusting the actual DB level of the gain as in adjusting the amps volume isn't something I use allot. I normally set it and forget it. Reason being is it interferes with the other musicians setting they're volume levels. You wind up in a volume war when you tweak total dB levels to be heard. Drummers don't have a volume control so setting the DB to match him is what I do. I may need to tweak it a little as the band gets hot during the night buts that's about all.

 

If you play professionally this is where the sound man takes over adjusting the overall volume for the audience so I rarely have a need to adjust the volume after the gain stages other then to set the stage volume.

 

Much of this boils down to the complexity of your setup. If you plug straight into a tube amp and crank it till it saturates then you'd be more likely to simply play harder when you want aggressive notes and play softer for tamer tones. The guitars volume would simply adjust the range between clean and saturated like the volume knob on the amp does.

 

What commonly happens with players who first get into using gain boxes is they crank the drive all the way up to the point the volume knob on the guitar no longer tapers the gain down linearly. This is often the result of playing low volume in a small room.

 

As you play out live and play louder that level of gain becomes unmanageable and even if you don't have issues with feedback and extreme clutter, you get buried in the mix playing with other musicians. By turning down the gain levels you get back dynamic control and can solo over other players simply by playing more aggressively.

 

Of course you do have to be a better player in order to work with lower levels of drive. You cant mask your weak right hand behind a wall of white noise. Every change in pick attack changes the saturation levels, so that hand has to be working like a surgical tool. Its not only how hard it hits but where along the string you pick that produces different voicing and overtones.