Members DeepEnd Posted January 9, 2017 Members Share Posted January 9, 2017 [rant] Middle of last week, the Music Director from church sent out a text. She wanted to know if the praise band could back up a soloist Sunday morning. "The song is on YouTube and it's in E. The chords are E5, Amaj7, F#m7, and E/G#. We'll practice Sunday morning." Okay, so I know where to hear the song--in a different key--and I know what the chords are--but not in what order. She plays piano, organ and flute so maybe she doesn't know any better, although she should. Sunday morning rolls around and she hands out sheet music so we can go over the song. Oh, and by the way, the music is copied on both sides of the pages. Erm, guitarists can't turn pages and play at the same time. We've talked about this. Well, we'll work on it and make new copies later. Right now, let's just run over the song. We start playing and I see chords I'm not expecting: E6? Amaj9? Nobody said anything about those. She must have misread E6 as E5. Anyway, E6 doesn't sound right so it doesn't matter, let's just go with E, and Amaj9 is no problem. Fortunately, like most modern Christian music, the song is nauseatingly repetitive so it doesn't take much time to learn--one verse, chorus, repeat mindlessly, stick in a bridge at some point--and it goes well. I love the outlet praise band provides but it would be so nice to work with more people who "get" guitarists. [/rant] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted January 9, 2017 Members Share Posted January 9, 2017 I guess I have a guitar chord brain, when I saw "Em,guitarists can't turn the page..........." , I thought Em was E minor But it is 1:30 am and I need sleepThe Music Minister could be like most church staffers ,over worked and under appreciated .or maybe she's just plain in over her head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emory Posted January 9, 2017 Members Share Posted January 9, 2017 I'm not a Christian, but do recall some verse about "making a joyful noise".... didn't say music! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted January 9, 2017 Members Share Posted January 9, 2017 To the director the ensemble is a solo instrument for - the director. They learn whatever spells to utter and correct wanding and the music happens. The onus is on the player to function correctly and accordingly or be subject to adjustment or upgrade. That is the law as transcribed from one of Moses tablets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ancient Mariner Posted January 9, 2017 Members Share Posted January 9, 2017 I just try to make it up as I go along - mostly the 'right chords' sound sucky anyway. You could point her in the direction of http://www.worshipready.com for chord charts, and when you get double-sided just grab 2 copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted January 9, 2017 Members Share Posted January 9, 2017 I worked with a choir director who thought the guitars sounded best with "cowboy" chords. Notheing wrong with that, but 9 out 10 songs in Dmaj. I tried to explain that I do know more then the 5 chords she thought I knew. I think I finally convinced her when I played Back Tocatta and Fuege in Dmin with her on the organ and me on the guitar synth. Next batch of songs actually had some real chords in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted January 10, 2017 Members Share Posted January 10, 2017 Just turn down, add chorus and reverb, and smile for the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 10, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 10, 2017 I'm not a Christian' date=' but do recall some verse about "making a joyful noise".... didn't say music![/quote'] A few, mostly in the Psalms (66:1, 81:1, 95:1-2, 98:4 & 6). I try to make music instead of noise but sometimes I have to settle for noise. I don't think she's in it for ego's sake or in over her head but she doesn't play guitar and she just doesn't seem to "get it" no matter how many times we go through it. Any one of us (two guitarists and a bassist) would know immediately that double sided copies wouldn't work. Her excuse this time around was "It's a new copier and that's the way it came out." Fine. As Ancient Mariner said, Make another set of copies. Another thing: Don't staple the pages together. We'll just need to remove them so we can spread the pages out because guitarists can't turn pages! When I get hold of sheet music in advance, I type the lyrics and chords and make it so everything fits on one page. If there are repeats, codas, etc., I copy and paste so I can have it in a nice linear form. I usually try for 14 point Arial or so, so I can read it with bifocals. I make extra copies for the other guitar/bass players. I don't expect someone else to do it for me but come on, give me a fighting chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 10, 2017 Members Share Posted January 10, 2017 Didn't you have a bunch of other issues with that band? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 10, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 10, 2017 Didn't you have a bunch of other issues with that band? Well, yeah. Our original drummer (we don't have one any more) wouldn't play unless there was a bass, which is why I learned. More recently, the lead vocalist complains constantly if the (electric) guitars are "too loud," meaning "taking attention away from my beautiful singing." We normally have one electric and one acoustic guitar but on Sundays when I bring my electric it's a pain. If I can hear my amp (which is on a stand angled up and pointing at me) it's "too loud." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted January 10, 2017 Members Share Posted January 10, 2017 I've always liked Psalm 33:3 ,especially the way it's worded in the King James version"Sing unto him a new song ; play skilfully with a loud noise" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 10, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 10, 2017 ''Loud noise'' is no problem. It's the ''skillful'' part that trips me up every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Drummer44 Posted January 12, 2017 Members Share Posted January 12, 2017 Well, yeah. Our original drummer (we don't have one any more) wouldn't play unless there was a bass, which is why I learned. More recently, the lead vocalist complains constantly if the (electric) guitars are "too loud," meaning "taking attention away from my beautiful singing." We normally have one electric and one acoustic guitar but on Sundays when I bring my electric it's a pain. If I can hear my amp (which is on a stand angled up and pointing at me) it's "too loud." Drummer needed an accompanying bass? Wonder why... Anyway, there's usually a thing about all that "beautiful singling" in praise music: the vocals are intended as the lead "instrument"... and everyone in the audience is supposed to hear, understand, and be moved by the lyrics. Just the way it is. Good vocalist(s) or not. Maybe try headphones from your amp, to monitor? Just a thought... -D44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 12, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2017 Drummer needed an accompanying bass? Wonder why... Anyway, there's usually a thing about all that "beautiful singling" in praise music: the vocals are intended as the lead "instrument"... and everyone in the audience is supposed to hear, understand, and be moved by the lyrics. Just the way it is. Good vocalist(s) or not. Maybe try headphones from your amp, to monitor? Just a thought... -D44 Regarding the drummer, I have no idea. He said it didn't "sound right" with just drums and no bass. About the second or third time he threw a hissy fit and refused to play when he found out our bass player wasn't going to be there I found a bass and amp on CriaigsList and learned enough bass to fill in. I get the part about vocals being the "lead instrument." We lead the congregation in singing so it's obviously important to hear and understand the words, even though they're being projected on screens. All I want is to be able to hear myself playing. I don't think that's too much to ask. I may experiment with headphones and see if it helps. I have a cheap pair lying around. Unfortunately, the only place I have to plug them in is the "Pre Out" jack and I don't know how well that would work or even if it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted January 13, 2017 Members Share Posted January 13, 2017 All I want is to be able to hear myself playing. I don't think that's too much to ask. . Seems quite reasonable to me It must be frustrating What's the MUSIC ministers take on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 13, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 13, 2017 Seems quite reasonable to me It must be frustrating What's the MUSIC ministers take on this? My amp is on the opposite side of a piano from her, pointed in the opposite direction, running into a DI box. AFAIK, it's not a problem for her. The other amp faces the piano and is miked; she does complain about that one sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted January 13, 2017 Members Share Posted January 13, 2017 You could AB into a small pocket amp and run earbuds from the pocket amp. They're smaller and attract less attention. A GOOD pair, not the crap from WallyWorld or the dollar store. I do this sometimes, never live, but in other settings. Not sure how they wluld work live with an acoustic drummer, but you don't have one right now, so...should work. And if/when you get another drummer, he's most likely mic'd and behind a screen? Shouldn't be too bad. On another note - the Praise Band. Is that mostly a Sunday service kind of gig? If so, and you Really want to do more, be more expressive, and creative - why not fire up another band? An outlet for the expression and creativity you're after. You could most likely play other churches/events with this second band, and still keep up with the Sunday Praise band gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted January 13, 2017 Members Share Posted January 13, 2017 How close are you to your own amp? Do you have stage monitors? Could you run a stage monitor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 13, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 13, 2017 You could AB into a small pocket amp and run earbuds from the pocket amp. They're smaller and attract less attention. A GOOD pair, not the crap from WallyWorld or the dollar store. I do this sometimes, never live, but in other settings. Not sure how they wluld work live with an acoustic drummer, but you don't have one right now, so...should work. And if/when you get another drummer, he's most likely mic'd and behind a screen? Shouldn't be too bad. On another note - the Praise Band. Is that mostly a Sunday service kind of gig? If so, and you Really want to do more, be more expressive, and creative - why not fire up another band? An outlet for the expression and creativity you're after. You could most likely play other churches/events with this second band, and still keep up with the Sunday Praise band gig. Even when we have a drummer, it's an electronic kit. No mikes, no screen. A pocket amp might work but I hate wearing earbuds. I might have to get used to them. Or, just maybe, if I wear headphones and I look ridiculous enough (and I don't need much help to look ridiculous ) folks will make allowances and let me hear my amp. And yes, praise band is a Sunday morning worship thing. Unfortunately, I work screwy hours so another band isn't an option. Thanks for the suggestions though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted January 13, 2017 Members Share Posted January 13, 2017 It should be up to the leader or the sound person to determine the volume and balance .It sounds like the leader follows the singer instead. The leader needs to lead and everyone needs to follow.If the singer has to hear a guitar she can get used to it and if comes down to you wearing earbuds I guess you'll have to adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 14, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 14, 2017 How close are you to your own amp? Do you have stage monitors? Could you run a stage monitor? About 3 or 4 feet with the amp tilted upward on a stand. We don't have stage monitors and, in my case, my amp is the stage monitor. It's not there so anyone else can hear it. I stand under a PA speaker, behind the piano, and in front of the bass player so I have no trouble hearing everyone else, just me. I may have to find an amp with a headphone jack and just live in my own little world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted January 14, 2017 Members Share Posted January 14, 2017 Under the PA speaker and in front of the bass player. The only way that setup could be worse would be for your amp to be crossfired in front of the bass amp while standing near an acoustic drummer, lol. Question - when you do turn up, and I'm assuming it's slight, is your amp only audible on stage, and it's more of a singer complaining issue, or is it also noticeable in the audience? Also, if you're already poised under the PA speaker, what about a direct line to the PA? are you mic'd? If your amp is only for you, how is the guitar currently allowed to fit into the mix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted January 15, 2017 Author Members Share Posted January 15, 2017 Under the PA speaker and in front of the bass player. The only way that setup could be worse would be for your amp to be crossfired in front of the bass amp while standing near an acoustic drummer' date=' lol. Question - when you do turn up, and I'm assuming it's slight, is your amp only audible on stage, and it's more of a singer complaining issue, or is it also noticeable in the audience? Also, if you're already poised under the PA speaker, what about a direct line to the PA? are you mic'd? If your amp is only for you, how is the guitar currently allowed to fit into the mix?[/quote'] The praise band is down in a corner at the front of the sanctuary. I've called it the "praise band ghetto" in the past. The singer(s) are on a raised area across the front where the altar, pulpit, etc. are. The PA speakers are mounted on the wall, one on either side. I'm running a direct line to the PA from my amp. It's mainly there for my needs. As far as the overall mix, the sound guy does that. We could be there for show for all I know but the congregation can hear the guitars and piano. I really don't know about the bass, I'm standing in front of it so I can hear it from where I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted January 15, 2017 Members Share Posted January 15, 2017 Oh ok, so you are running through the PA. Since your amp is mic'd or DI'd into the PA, and you're in a pocket off to the side, could you move your amp to the front and side of where you would normally stand, not the now go-to spot under the PA speaker? Other than that, a dedicated monitor aimed at you or headphones/earbuds are most likely going to be your best bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted January 15, 2017 Members Share Posted January 15, 2017 Don't get guitarists either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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