Gibson territory?

[mschafft]

Hello everyone,

first time I check out the forum in years and I've just read that Gibson bought HC.

Is that so? Does Gibson still own the forum? Did they modify the site in 2015 along with their guitar line with unbelievable mods?

 

 

[Bucksstudent]

LOL. Yeah, Gibson owns Harmony Central. Craig Anderton works for Gibson as well. There's plenty of Gibson spam. Definitely doesn't make me want to buy a Gibson, and I won't be buying anymore new Epiphones soon.

[mschafft]

Thanks for replying. There is no Gibsons in my collection anymore but quite a few Epiphones, some are great if you get lucky.

Have a nice day

[Phil O'Keefe]

Yes, Gibson purchased the site. The moderators, writers and site admins are the same as they've been since 2005, and our marching orders also remain the same - stay editorially neutral and help people in their quest to make better music.

 

 

 

[mschafft]

Thanks for chiming in. Did the layout of the site change on the occasion of the change of ownership?

[Anderton]

Any changes have been relatively minor compared to how things were during the last days at Guitar Center.

 

FWIW when HC was bought Henry J had one conference call with the team, and said he wanted the site to be neutral, public-facing, internationally oriented, and get people inspired about making music. He said we could be as snarky as we wanted as long as we weren't mean-spirited. We were given no constraints on what to review or editorial policy. That was the first and only time that we were given any kind of directive, although I guess "keep doing what you're doing" is a fairly lightweight directive. It should be obvious by the sheer number of reviews for competitive products that Gibson ownership has had no influence on the site except in three ways:

 

1. They get to run more ads.

2. We have taken advantage of being here to get products in our hands for review. Obviously we need to review Gibson products, we cannot be at a competitive disadvantage to other sites because they can review high-profile products that we can't.

3. I have had to bite my tongue when I felt really positively about particular Gibson products because I knew that no matter how many Fender or PRS or other guitars we reviewed, the clueless would point to it and say "he's just saying that because Gibson owns them." One way we've gotten around that is by finding reviews others have done on the web, and asking for permission to reprint.

 

And that's about it...

 

 

[Les Paul Lover]

It's not really about it.... The number of times I've seen you "drop in" one thread and link to a positive Gibson review you have done or a great technical Gibson point you have written about seriously impairs any bias this forum has.

 

I start to have some doubts about some forum contributors too...... (not the old ones, but some recent members ask some questions...... That beg for an Anderton or other dedicated pro Gibson answer).

 

The bulk of old user (however diminished after the forum format change) makes this place still worthwhile perusing, but as for impartiality........

 

I say that, and my #1 axe is a les paul.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Yeah dude, I'm totally shilling for Gibson and ragging on all competitors...

 

Wait until you read the Fender reviews I have coming out soon...

 

We're not going to stop reviewing Gibsons, or tell people they can't discuss one of the most popular guitar brands just because they now own the site. We're honest and tell people who the owners are, but we're also being honest when we tell you what our marching orders are - and they are that we remain neutral, just as we were when GC owned the site. Remember that and how everyone was worried at first that we'd turn into some biased entity because GC bought the site from Scott? Sure GC had their ads running, but we also ran ads from other vendors too. We don't play favorites. If there's something on a Gibson that I'm reviewing that I don't like, I not only have "permission" to tell you about it, I'm expected to tell you about it. And anyone who knows me knows that I 1) don't play fake member games on the forums and 2) my credibility as an engineer and journalist are too important to me to BS people in my reviews. I simply won't do it. And my boss knows that too.

 

Enjoy your Les Paul. Have you ever considered getting a Strat or Tele to augment it? IMHO a good collection should be balanced, and a guitarist should have a range of guitars and tones available to them...

[Bucksstudent]

Just because you guys spam for Gibson doesn't mean you can't also give good reviews for Fender. That would defeat the purpose of reviewing gear other than Gibson, really.

 

But, I know you'll retort that I'm wrong. That's usually how it goes when anyone accuses the mods and Administration of anything.

[Les Paul Lover]

 

Enjoy your Les Paul. Have you ever considered getting a Strat or Tele to augment it? IMHO a good collection should be balanced, and a guitarist should have a range of guitars and tones available to them...

 

Written comments don't always read like you intend them to be read. My post was quite to the point, and it may come across as rude.

 

I have read some reviews you guys have written about other gear than Gibson.

 

I've also read a number of Craig's "I drop in on a thread and link you to my Gibson review thank you very much" posts. I appreciate it's your job - but it does bias the forum.

 

But hey ho, I don't get paid for reviewing cool gear all the time (Gibson or others) so good on you for doing it, but do understand why some of us will take this forum with a large pinch of salt.

 

And yes thank you, I do have a lovely Vigier Expert and a MIJ Aria Pro II to supplement my non Les Paul needs.

[mschafft]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Have a nice day!

[Anderton]

It's not really about it.... The number of times I've seen you "drop in" one thread and link to a positive Gibson review you have done or a great technical Gibson point you have written about seriously impairs any bias this forum has.

 

But I do that for all kinds of links to all kinds of products and articles. If you want to look at products reviewed, positiveness of the review, word count, and mentions in various places aside from Harmony Central, you'd have to conclude I work for Line 6. (I don't, I just think they make really good products, which gives me another good excuse to provide a link to the Helix pro review.) As far as taking what's said with a "grain of salt," if anyone points out an error, corrections are made. Period. I believe that the accuracy of what we say here is a super-low-sodium diet compared to the sites where reviews are done on a "pay to play" basis.

 

However the real issue here is bias. If I did not cover Gibson gear that would be evidence of bias too. The irony is that you say your #1 axe is a Les Paul...so I don't see why I shouldn't be entitled to the same opinion. I took the gig at Gibson partially because I like Les Pauls (employee discount!), I don't like Les Pauls because I took a gig at Gibson.

 

I do agree 100% it is a situation that could give an appearance of impropriety. However, I believe if you read the actual words I wrote, I don't think you can make a case for that appearance being translated into reality. I stand by everything I say as being factual. If I've written a positive review of any product, it's because I've had a positive experience with that product.

 

When I wrote the articles on the 2017 guitars, I had to bite my tongue because I think most of them are really excellent. But I truly believe I stuck to the facts. With the one guitar where I made an exception - the Les Paul Faded - I clearly indicated where I ventured into subjective territory.

 

And think about it for a second...if I really wanted to benefit Gibson, wouldn't it make sense to wax enthusiastic about a guitar that would bring Gibson more $$? Aside from the S-series, in which I have no interest and therefore will not review, that's the least expensive guitar in the lineup.

 

There was FAR more influence when Guitar Center ran the show because the expectation was to cover products that Guitar Center sold. There is no such expectation here. Furthermore, you will see that not one negative comment from the community about anything related to Gibson has been deleted.

 

Finally, I will readily admit that I took advantage of the connection with Gibson in writing about the 2017 guitars because we could get them before others. But I have taken advantage of other connections with other companies with respect to other reviews where we were able to get products first. It's nothing new for writers to want to get "scoops."

 

For the record, here are the most recent reviews I’ve written for Harmony Central. The ONLY one that has a connection with Gibson Brands is BigTone EDM, because it’s an expansion pack for a virtual instrument that Cakewalk makes, and that’s a Gibson Brand. However even then, the guy who made the pack has nothing to do with Gibson Brands. I just think he does good work. It’s not my fault he chooses to apply his expertise to an instrument affiliated with Gibson Brands, nor should I not review what I consider a very well-crafted product because he does.

 

Casio CGP-700 electronic piano

Ozone Elements mastering software

BigTone EDM Expansion pack

IK Multimedia iRig HD 2

IK Multimedia iLoud Micro Monitor

CME Xkey Air Bluetooth keyboard controller

Line 6 Firehawk 1500 amp

Audified Mixchecker plug-in

G7th Performance 2 Capo

Gig Gloves

Line 6 AmpliFI 30

Sonible frei:raum Multifunction EQ Processor

Eclipse Virtual instrument for Kontakt

Virtu Stealth Music Engineer’s Chair

Orbit Virtual Instrument for Kontakt

IK Multimedia iLoud Bluetooth portable speaker

Universal Audio Apollo Twin USB

Line 6 Helix

Arturia Matrix-12V synthesizer plug-in

Eventide Anthology X plug-ins suite

Mackie Reach

UJAM Virtual Guitarist

Wizdom Music GeoShred

Focusrite Clarett8 PreX Thunderbolt Audio Interface

Electronic Dance Music Grooves (book)

IK Multimedia AmpliTube MESA/Boogie Amp Sim Software

 

The bottom line is I would prefer to be judged on the actual words I say, rather than that words on a particular subject simply exist. My gig is to seek out interesting products and talk about them. I am always ready to stand corrected if there is a factual error in anything I write.

 

[Anderton]

And one more comment about the articles on the 2017 guitars...people are confused, and rightly so, about the differences between the various models. I am in the unique position of having access to those guitars and the people who designed them, being a guitarist, and knowing how to write. However I didn't write reviews for the obvious reasons - it would bring accusations of bias out of the woodwork. Although Chris pointed out HC had a golden opportunity to gain SEO because the guitars weren't being covered on the Gibson site, I still kind of dragged my feet. Eventually we agreed that if I wrote articles, not reviews, that described the specific differences - something like what you would get if you found a really knowledgeable person on the floor at Guitar Center - some people might still have a problem with that but most would recognize it for what it was and accept it as useful information. I always had a zillion other things to do...but Chris kind of forced my hand. He can be that way sometimes

[Bucksstudent]

This thread is advertisement for Gibson.

 

Some of us think you guys are spamming for Gibson. You're not going to change my perspective on that. You can say I'm wrong, but it won't mean anything to me. Realistically, it only dampens my experience on the board a little. What makes HC weaker are members like Mbengs1 that are allowed to start stupid, repetitive threads to amp up board traffic. It seems like every attempt you guys make to salt the wound and bring more posting members in just drives the knife in further.

 

I like HC because I like talking about music, equipment, and learning about them. I'm not here to get into flame wars or argue about brands. You guys have every right to advertise for your employers. Denying it is simply a waste of time.

[Anderton]

This thread is advertisement for Gibson.

 

I have no idea who the person is who started this thread. What on earth makes this thread an advertisement for Gibson? It seems to be mostly people complaining, and us addressing those complaints.

 

Some of us think you guys are spamming for Gibson. You're not going to change my perspective on that. You can say I'm wrong, but it won't mean anything to me.

 

Well if you are right, and you ARE being spammed, then we need to know about it because when you sign up, we do NOT sell your email. You should not be receiving ANY emails related to Harmony Central, let alone spam emails, unless you specifically signed up for the newsletter. In that I need to know because that means our mailing list has been compromised...which would be a MAJOR pita to deal with.

 

[Anderton]

It's not really about it.... The number of times I've seen you "drop in" one thread and link to a positive Gibson review you have done or a great technical Gibson point you have written about seriously impairs any bias this forum has.

 

Look, I'm not here to cause any fights. I can certainly take criticism and am capable of changing my modus operandi if it's offensive; that's how any of us improve. But, I don't know what you're referring to about "a number of times I've seen you drop in...etc. etc." It would be really helpful if you could point out a half dozen examples or so, that way I can see exactly what it is to which you're objecting and act accordingly. My goal is to disseminate accurate information in a timely fashion but if that goal isn't being met, I need to know about it so I can see what about it is perceived as "impairing" this forum. Thanks.

 

[Anderton]

What makes HC weaker are members like Mbengs1 that are allowed to start stupid' date=' repetitive threads to amp up board traffic.[/quote']

 

I have no idea who mbengs1 is. Who told him to amp up board traffic? And if you find his threads objectionable, did you report them? We have a TOS that allows us to ban people for flooding or spamming. If they continue to do so, we can perma-ban them.

[mistersully]

first world problems

[Bucksstudent]

 

I have no idea who the person is who started this thread. What on earth makes this thread an advertisement for Gibson? It seems to be mostly people complaining, and us addressing those complaints.

 

 

 

Well if you are right, and you ARE being spammed, then we need to know about it because when you sign up, we do NOT sell your email. You should not be receiving ANY emails related to Harmony Central, let alone spam emails, unless you specifically signed up for the newsletter. In that I need to know because that means our mailing list has been compromised...which would be a MAJOR pita to deal with.

I was pointing out that this thread is mentioning the Gibson brand a lot. I didn't accuse you of using an old account or coaxing the OP into starting it.

 

I never accused you or HC of spamming my email. I meant spamming the board with posts about Gibson products, which is exactly what you did in a recent thread.

 

FYI, Mbengs1 is just an annoying member who isn't breaking any rules. He does mention Gibson and starts threads about Gibson a lot, but again, I'm not accusing you of anything in that regard.

 

Way to misread my posts, though. Paranoid much?

[Les Paul Lover]

 

Look, I'm not here to cause any fights. I can certainly take criticism and am capable of changing my modus operandi if it's offensive; that's how any of us improve. But, I don't know what you're referring to about "a number of times I've seen you drop in...etc. etc." It would be really helpful if you could point out a half dozen examples or so, that way I can see exactly what it is to which you're objecting and act accordingly. My goal is to disseminate accurate information in a timely fashion but if that goal isn't being met, I need to know about it so I can see what about it is perceived as "impairing" this forum. Thanks.

 

I've just read a number of your posts recently that pointed to articles about Gibson, I've read some of them too, and appreciate your reviews weren't 100% positive, but that's not the point.

 

I only post in electric guitar, and that's where I've read your reviews.

 

That's all. But that's what you guys do, it's your gig, I understand that.

 

I'm on the Orange amp forum a lot. I don't mind the bias there..... Because it's obvious. It's written on the tin, so to speak.

[Anderton]

Way to misread my posts' date=' though. Paranoid much?[/quote']

 

Well, I appreciate your clarifying what I think you will have to agree was ambiguous. For example, saying "This thread is an advertisement for Gibson" is quite different compared to your clarification, "I was pointing out that this thread is mentioning the Gibson brand a lot."

 

FYI, Mbengs1 is just an annoying member who isn't breaking any rules. He does mention Gibson and starts threads about Gibson a lot, but again, I'm not accusing you of anything in that regard.

 

Well, you did say "What makes HC weaker are members like Mbengs1 that are allowed to start stupid, repetitive threads to amp up board traffic. It seems like every attempt you guys make to salt the wound and bring more posting members in just drives the knife in further.

 

I think you can see, in retrospect, why that comes across as an accusation of saying that we specifically allow stupid threads to amp up board traffic.

 

I never accused you or HC of spamming my email. I meant spamming the board with posts about Gibson products, which is exactly what you did in a recent thread.

 

If you look up the definition of spamming, it is almost always associated with email, or at least mass, unsolicited messages. You may not have intended to accuse HC of spamming you with emails, but I can't respond to what you meant, only to what you actually said...spam is the word you used, and it does have a specific meaning. And if you were indeed getting spammed (as defined), that is a huge deal because it means would be in violation of various laws involving compliance.

 

As always, if I write anything that is factually inaccurate, I expect to be called on it so I can make a correction. If what I write is factually correct and informative, I would think that kind of material would be welcomed. But I also understand that there are excellent reasons for people to be cynical, especially regarding the media, and I realize some people who don't know my history will assume the worst. Others will appreciate that there's someone inside Gibson who can delineate the differences among the 2017 guitars, which frankly I found confusing. If Fender invited HC in to do the same thing, we'd be there too.

 

It's all good. You can't please all the people all the time, but you can try and do the best work possible, and accept that people will think of it what they choose to think.

 

 

 

[mistersully]

honestly... people will find anything to bitch about

[Bucksstudent]

Well, I appreciate your clarifying what I think you will have to agree was ambiguous. For example, saying "This thread is an advertisement for Gibson" is quite different compared to your clarification, "I was pointing out that this thread is mentioning the Gibson brand a lot."

 

I wrote what I meant. I'm not interested in arguing over language and communication with you. But that brings us to your next statement...

 

If you look up the definition of spamming, it is almost always associated with email, or at least mass, unsolicited messages. You may not have intended to accuse HC of spamming you with emails, but I can't respond to what you meant, only to what you actually said...spam is the word you used, and it does have a specific meaning. And if you were indeed getting spammed (as defined), that is a huge deal because it means would be in violation of various laws involving compliance.

 

If you look up the definition of Spamming on Dictionary.com, you'll find it states: noun: (lowercase) Digital Technology. disruptive online messages, especially commercial messages posted on a computer network or sent as email.

 

Do you want me to pull out the other print dictionaries I own? I never accused you of spamming my email. The whole "if you look up the definition of" argument is not only invalid, it's also silly. Again, this isn't an argument over language and communication. You simply misinterpreted my meaning, and then defended yourself by placing the blame on me. I have a degree in English. Though I am not perfect, I spent a lot of time studying communication, language, and linguistics. When I type something on a message board, it's nothing profound. However, I want to point out that you're taking it to that level when you try to backtrack and bring it back to me. You're insulted that I would accuse you of making posts simply to advertise the Gibson brand, or you're acting that way. That's fine. What isn't fine is to treat your members this way. As the administrator of Harmony Central and employee of Gibson, I would hope you'd show more diplomacy and either ignore my accusations or not insult a member's grasp of the English language.

 

Well, you did say "What makes HC weaker are members like Mbengs1 that are allowed to start stupid, repetitive threads to amp up board traffic. It seems like every attempt you guys make to salt the wound and bring more posting members in just drives the knife in further.

 

I think you can see, in retrospect, why that comes across as an accusation of saying that we specifically allow stupid threads to amp up board traffic.

 

And that's precisely what I meant. You do allow stupid threads to amp up board traffic.

 

[Emory]

Jeez people, lighten up. People allowed to post stupid threads? Sure, why not. If they weren't, folks would complain about censorship. A thread for most of us with experience might seem stupid ("How do I tune a guitar?"), but we all started out ignorant, or stupid. I remain fairly ignorant in many many areas. Have a little charity in your hearts. The guys here at HC doing the best they can, and I trust them.

[mschafft]

OK. So I guess I'll post on other forums when I want to discuss Gibson products because I'm extremely critical towards the brand's approach to its heritage and to guitar playing in general. Still, I'm glad to be back and look forward to sharing ideas with other users.