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Could someone recommend an Amp Attenuator?


KevinTJH

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Currently running a Single Rectifier through a Mesa 4x12 cab. I've unfortunately moved to an apartment with noise restrictions, while I have the music gear to record, I just don't have to luxury of cranking up my amp to record a decent tone.

 

Could someone help recommend an affordable amp attenuator that does the job? I don't need one that's top of the range, even if slight change of tone is a compromise. It's more for casual "draft" recordings at home.

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

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You can build one that goes in the effects loop for around $10. Here's the one I built for my Fender: http://person2person.faithweb.com/Project.html. Note that mine has both attenuated and unattenuated outputs. If you only need the attenuated output, it will be simpler and cheaper. A heavy duty L-Pad in a box will work nicely if you want the attenuator after the power amp. Again, you can build it yourself cheaply.

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I'm not much a tech junkie person so I might prefer to purchase one that's already built. After doing some research, there seems to be a lot of variety, there are some with 10 knobs and some as simple as 1 knob, such as this:

http://www.musictoyz.com/suhr-reactive-load-guitar-amp-attenuator/

 

So what makes an attenuator like this worth so much more than a $10 one?

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Believe it or not, a loudspeaker that utilises a voice coil and a magnet is a motor. Yes, a loudspeaker is essentially a motor!!!

 

Well, anyway, if you want to put a load on yer amplifier that acts similarly to a loudspeaker, you need to use an "active" (or reactive) attenuator. Active attenuators, such as a Marshall Powerbrake, have a motor inside them with a cooling fan attached to the shaft of the motor. Some or all of your amp's output will drive the motor which acts as a complex reactive load.

 

The other -- and most common -- attenuator design is the passive attenuator. You simply dial in a passive resistance value to increase load and reduce output to your speaker cabinet. You don't get the same sonic results driving the dead load of power resistors as you would driving the reactive load of a loudspeaker, where the rebound of the speaker cone generates a bit of voltage through the voice coil. So, what you hear with a passive attenuator may sound a bit fizzy or maybe a bit un-complex when compared to natural speakers being driven hard.

 

Of course, with either design, you have to emulate the cone being deformed and waffling around a bit mechanically (diffraction) as it is overdriven. This is done by using a special proprietary mojo circuit to emulate stressed speaker cones.

 

As you might have easily guessed, passive attenuators cost less than active attenuators. There are a few attenuators that have both active and passive circuits, but usually, they are either passive or active.

 

 

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I wouldn't bother using an attenuator. A decent one is very expensive and they aren't all they're cracked up to be.

 

The least expensive method of attenuating is simply buying a low SPL speaker.

 

A low SPL speaker is what you call "inefficient" at converting power to sound. It simply isn't very sensitive and doesn't convert power to sound very well.

 

One of these 10" speakers are only 89 db which will drastically cut the volume, http://www.parts-express.com/pyramid...round--290-262

 

You can crank the head way up and only have the fraction of volume you normally get from a 4 x 12" cab. The speaker is a 120W reactive load that will absorb everything the head can put out too. The speaker is smaller too so its footprint is going to be the size of a small practice amp.

 

The biggest bonus is the speaker is less then $20. A good attenuator will cost you hundreds.

The only thing you need is a cab for it. You could build a simple cab for $10 in wood and a couple hours cutting wood and mounting the speaker.

You could also scrounge an empty can off EBay. I was on there yesterday and saw a couple of empty cabs for chump change.

 

If your heart is set on an attenuator, this used Hot Plate is selling for $199. They normally sell for about $350 http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/THD/Hot-Plate-Attenuator-Power-Attenuator.gc?country=us&currency=usd&source=4WWRW XGP&gclid=CMvnx76spc4CFQoJaQodgGUOFA&kwid=producta ds-adid^78244844802-device^c-plaid^140837537061-sku^112368270@ADL4GC-adType^PLA

 

Rivera makes one for around $500 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/deta...FQguaQodgt0PRQ

 

Jet city has one for $240 http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/jet-city-amplification-jettenuator-amp-power-attenuator/j33292?cntry=us&source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=CJGnm8qtpc4C FQIDaQodObgIAw&kwid=productads-adid^92666429307-device^c-plaid^139025036187-sku^J33292000000000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA

 

I still say a $15 speaker and a cab is the way to go. You cant beat having an actual speaker doing the job for you. I'm not sure if the frequency response will be as good as your normal speakers. Speakers are built to color the sound and remove certain frequencies and promoting others. That low SPL speaker is more of a full range speaker so its range may be wider but you can simply use your heads EQ settings it to get your normal tones.

 

The other option would be to get a small practice amp. That too would surely be a lot cheaper then buying an attenuator. I see dozens of good used 10~ 15W Champs, Peaveys etc being sold for less then $50 all day long. Allot handier just plugging in and playing too. Cracking out a larger head, cab, attenuator cords is a PITA. Just store that thing and get a practice amp for playing in the apartment. Use some pedals that will get you similar tones to your big amp.

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If it's just for rough demos, consider something like one of the Tech 21 Character series pedals. They sound fantastic for direct recording, and it will cost you less than a decent attenuator - and sound a lot better than most of them.

 

The US Metal or British pedals are probably closest to the sound of your Mesa.

 

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sa...terseries.html

 

 

There's also a lot of merit to WRGKMC's "low efficiency speaker" suggestion, although even a highly inefficient speaker can get loud enough to get you into trouble if you feed it enough power (assuming it can handle it) and have highly noise-sensitive neighbors living in close proximity. If you live in an apartment, an attenuator or low efficiency speaker may not be your best option.

 

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I've been recently looking for one myself. About 7 years ago I bought a Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 and it's never left the house. Now naturally there are times I think "WTF was I doing buying a 100 Watt tube amp with a 4x12 cab?" - probably wouldn't do it again, but yet it's a cool amp and has a lot of depth of tone. But when that amp arrived and I was giving it a trial run at around 9:00 on a Friday night, I had my neighbor, two lots away from me, calling me to turn it down within the first half our. So just recently I started looking at attenuators. I remember many years ago seeing the Marshall Power Brake and wondering why anyone would want that. Now it's obvious. But right now my hurdle is the price of admission to buy one.

 

I see that Weber makes them at more reasonable prices, but you've got to pick one with the right amount of attenuation for your output.http://www.tedweber.com/gadgets/attenuators I would just talk to them since 100 watts would require a stout box.

 

 

Or you can go more boutique and drop half a grand for the Rivera. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RockCrusher?adpos=1t1&creative=105744829081&device=c&matchtype=b&network=g&gclid=CJzaxqD9p84CFQJrfgodOIsH7Q

[video=youtube;F1GHg3gJCts]

 

But yeah, without stepping up and getting an attenuator, I may never get to hear the sound of my amp's saturated power tube tone.

 

I'll be watching this thread for opinions. But it does sound like some of the attenuators out there aren't worth the price. I also noticed that the THD Hot Plate is no longer readily available, but I see there's a new one for sale on Reverb.com

 

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I used to experiment with a volume pedal as a cheap alternative to an attenuator. Others may not agree, and I don't claim it's the same, but it's one way.

 

But if you're wanting to spend the money on a legit one, why not just get a small tube amp for recording? Marshall, Vox, and Fender make great ones. You can crank it during the day for recording and your neighbors may not say a thing.

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But yeah, without stepping up and getting an attenuator, I may never get to hear the sound of my amp's saturated power tube tone.

 

I'll be watching this thread for opinions. But it does sound like some of the attenuators out there aren't worth the price. I also noticed that the THD Hot Plate is no longer readily available, but I see there's a new one for sale on Reverb.com

 

An amp's saturated power tube tone into an attenuator then a speaker barely moving isn't all what its cracked up to be. For the money you'd spend I'd find a better solution, but that's based on my experience.

 

It really takes cranking a speaker up to 75% of its wattage rating in conjunction with the transformers and tubes producing sag to appreciate anything the power amp does. Neutering it down doesn't come close to being the same in my opinion. Allot of it has to do with how the speakers react to the tube compression and the power as the sound is actually projected from the amp striking the guitar and cause the strings to sympathetically vibrate to get notes to sustain.

 

With the attenuator and speaker running low volume and no saturation of its own, the tube saturation itself is being consumed by the attenuator before it gets to the speaker. An attenuator sucks allot of tone too. It feels kind of wrong playing through one too like your speaker cord has a short and just isn't letting the juice get to the speaker.

 

Back in my amp repair days, we used to use attenuators in the shop for doing repairs. We had some speakers in cabs then a box with ceramic resistors and L pads for a load. We had caps across the leads too to prevent the speaker from being cooked if the power amps blew when stress testing them.

 

Transistor amps were notorious for what you called "Going DC" Why its called that I don't know, it should be called "Going AC". When output transistors short they pump a full 120 volts AC out to the speakers and fry them. The caps to prevented that and saved you from cooking the voice coils.

 

We also had a light bulb in series to provide some inductive sag. Helped as a visual aid too. You see that bulb go to fill brightness you'd hit the bench power breaker and shut it down.

 

You could build your own attenuator if you wanted. It would require a few basic parts. The most expensive item is a high wattage 8 ohm L pad, which is two wire wound potentiometers. You wire the pair so one works reverse of the other. When the knob is turned in one direction, you have the full power of the amp feeding the speaker. As you turn it the other way, you add more and more DC resistance with one pot and remove resistance with the other. The two balanced out to maintain an even resistance as you tapered the speaker volume down. You've probably seen them on the back of Hi Fi or PA cabs to adjust the Horn Volume. .

 

You use wire wound Rheostats because the current generated by a high wattage amp causes allot of heat. Putting a light bulb in series helps with the reactive load so you aren't pounding against a brick wall which could decrease tube life.

 

Marshalls are kind of finicky when it comes to their output transformer. If I had an old plexi I'd never use an attenuator, I'd stick with a low SPL speaker for sure.

 

Some of your better attenuators use an actual transformer to drop the wattage down. Some use separate transformer taps where you can choose the maximum wattage range and some add an additional L pad for fine adjustment's. That's why they're so expensive, you're essentially buying a specialized transformer which is even more expensive then your amps output transformer.

 

There's some tone sucking because of the magnetic losses associated with passing a signal through another set of inductors but it is the safest way of doing it.

 

Its kind of a waste though. Why have this huge amp head cooking away hot enough to fry bacon if all you're needing out of it is maybe 5 watts.

 

I can say I loved my 50W plexi. I could crank it at lower volumes and get nearly the same tones as a 100W. No problem playing out live with it either. Its just a better suited amp all around for just about anything you'd do.

 

The only big Marshall I have now is my Valvestate. Its 100W too but with its master volume you can drop the volume down wherever you need it to be and you don't have the tone sucking an attenuator would produce. Its got a preamp tube so its not all solid state and the Mosfets do sound very tube like.

 

I think if I had a 100W plexi I'd simply install a master volume. You could then dial the power amp down and crank the preamp up where you normally use it live. This would give you the string touch and attack from the preamp you'd normally get and you simply run the power amp at a reasonable volume.

 

My buddy I grew up with playing in bands had that mod done to his plexi 50 and it allowed him to get some decent preamp saturation, (years before that kind of stuff became standard in most amps)

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I remember rockman had the first attenuator called the power soak. guys were burning up their Marshalls transformers left and right. WRGKMC hitting DC is when your ohm hit below it rating and hit DC current. Smell that?:lol:​ They have a better way of doing it today than a bunch of fire proof resistors. my Badger 18 uses one I barely use but just a little.

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Thanks for all the very informative responses, guys. Sorry for not responding, I've been away the last few days.

 

Yea I can understand that buying a smaller cab or amp would be a good way to go, but not in my case. I have used my amp + cab in a soundproof studio before for recording and it sounds amazing, the only difference is I do not have the luxury of a soundproof room at the moment. It's such an expensive cab as well. To use a new cab/speaker instead would be a complete waste of the V30 speakers.

 

I have tried the volume pedal too. I've got the Ernie Ball VP Jr, which seems to "suck" tone as well (IMO). Recording with it would also be a nightmare unless i shove a block underneath it to make sure the pedal doesn't move or something.

 

I think I'm pretty dead set on an attenuator, even if it alters the tone slightly, I'm sure I can learn to make up for it in the EQ. UNLESS, it sounds worse than having the amp at a low volume.

 

 

I've got a budget of $300-400 at the moment.

 

Out of the 3 links provided, the THD doesn't ship to Australia, the Rivera is a little over the budget, but the Jet City looks good. Any thoughts?

 

 

EDIT: How crappy would something like this be?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BWM-100watt-NON-OHM-SPECIFIC-ATTENUATOR-2-FREE-1M-18-AWG-SPEAKER-PATCH-CABLES-/252368103830?hash=item3ac24fa996:g:bVsAAOxyNExSLwqN

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Dubtronics could probably hook you up with something. He bought a tube screamer off me once and it took months to get there. But it was cheaper to get it from me than imports. That says a lot. I'd still go with a lower wattage tube amp.

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Summary:

 

- you don't want to wear headphones (can't blame you there)

- gotta be quiet

- you're not recording Exile On Main St., Pt 2 through this thing

- lots of words above to the effect of "there's probably better ways of getting there" than purchasing an attenuator

 

Advice:

- attenuators suck. they just do -- you'll wind up wasting time, money and energy.

- options include:

> new smaller amp

> purpose-built 'practice device'

> move to iPhone/iPad/device

> rigging something on your own

 

I'd look at #'s 1 and 3. Small amps have come way down in price and gone way up in quality, and many have direct-out functionality. As a notorious gear whore with a home studio, I have moved 100% of my 'scratch recording' to the iPad. If you have an IOS device, you can get an interface and be off and running. One of the pluses of that route is you will have many monitoring options (e.g., you can DI to barely-there small speakers, all the way up through stadium-sized PA).

 

My personal opinion is that it's easier to be satisfied with imitations of tube saturation at low volumes, but once you get louder you hear and feel the missing pieces much more. The good news there is that apartment dwellers have a lot more options.

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There's nothing like a 100 watt and a 4/12" cab. in a big room. My friend Hank used to do sound at Froggys a very big Bar that had nationl acts come in. Hank built his own speakers from plans he measured off other bigtime pro gear. In order to do national acts, they required certain gear. A example would be his mixer in which he got used for 40,000, 2000watt EV in the bins etc. 30,000 watts in crest power amps etc. Just to give you a ideal of the room and system needed. Hank was a pro drummer too and started a jam sesson on Thursday nights I believe it was.

​A guy named Andy was the guitar player in his band (very good player) This was 12 years ago before hank passed. hank had been trying to get me to come out and jam. he had a amp there with a loop so I took a GT3 processor which was ok in a small room or bedroom jamming. Andy fired up that 100/120 watt VHT. I told Andy That amp has the most balls BIG fat Balls! I have ever heard. Shi- my rig sounded like a am radio compared to it. For the application that amp was perfect for the room. I needed a good mic and some monitors to hear my stuff. With sound reinforcement I had no issues and sounded good. Take my 18 watt in a smaller room and it sounds just as fat as the VHT in the big room. Every Guitarist should have a 15 to 20 watter in his stable. It just makes sense to a giging musician. Danhedonia Pro is right. There are so many options today with Marshall amps that go down to 1 watt which is still loud but perfect for recording and bed room practice. With the right tubes it just gives up the good earlier. For digital recording at some point you're going to need some compression some where to keep the levels from going into digital distortion, We've all heard that. Digital does not forgive like tape did. There's a lot of good marshall type pedals out on the market,

 

XTS Atomic overdrive would be a good choice and maybe a ross type comp or one of the better FET comps to maintain the levels. The use of a volume pedal after the OD for hands free volume adjustments. There's more than one way to get it done and still maintain tone.

 

Here's Carlygtr

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honestly man... skip it

 

i chased my tail recording tube amps at home for years... it's just not worth it

 

accept the limitations of your space and go a different direction entirely

 

just get a pedal/modeler/sim etc... a small solid state modeling amp would be a better direction than the way you're going

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If you're going to buy one, buy one used at a discount. This way if you find its not doing what you want you can sell it and get all your money back. If you buy new, you will take the depreciation loss.

 

 

If your goal is to record in an apartment, you could get one of these which would allow you to crank the head and not have the sound bothering the neighbors. This one made by Randall is about $399, the same cost for a good attenuator. If a V30 is your favorite speaker you could use one of those in this cab. http://www.zzounds.com/item--RANISO12C?siid=110161 You just need to make sure the cab is well padded from the floor because it can transfer vibrations through the floor which may bother the neighbors. sit it on a couch or chair with allot of padding and you're good to go.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n31791182[/ATTACH]

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The Jet City (by Soldano) Attenuator is on SDOTD today. Marked down from $239 to $129. At this price I might pull the trigger, not sure yet since I'm still waking up with my first cup of jo.

 

The common comments are that it cuts off some of the sparkling highs; but while I'm sure it may alter the tone in ways that may not be desirable, if I was going for a power tube soaked crunch, I'd probably be cutting highs anyway. But I'm not vouching for the unit, but this low entry fee and the mixed in positive reviews may make this deal worth a look. But some of the comments mention the Weber units perform better and the Rivera quite a bit better.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid?icid=210190

H98286000000000-00-250x250.jpg

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The temptation with this critter is that whatever it does, it does it for a cheap entrance fee, i.e. about the same as a pedal. So I'd be thinking whatever tonal effect it has, it would be a bit similar to buying an OD pedal, i.e. use it if you like it, sell it or let it collect dust if you don't.

 

I doubt I'll get this one though. Partly because I just don't think I'm very likely to be using my DSL100 that often even if I have an attenuator. These days I'm more likely to plug into low watt amps, with my sweet spot being between 5 to 20 watts, depending upon the amp. And in the long run, I might be happier with something built more stout. But still, it's tempting ;^)

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I have a sound proofed studio so I can crank my amps anytime I want day or night. Took me many years to get there though. I lived in apartments and had to play through headphones or small amps much longer then I ever wanted to.

 

My sweet spot is usually is the same as playing live where I can get the guitar body and strings to start resonating on their own when I simply tap the body standing about 5' from the amps.

 

This gets me those Hendrix and Santana sustains when playing leads and I can simply dial it back a few notches to get down to that big plush sound for rhythm tones.

 

The studio has no reflection because its so padded out with multi layers of acoustic materials. The sound is highly directional, all coming from one direction like when you gig outside and have no walls to bounce off of.

 

Even then I may only run 50W tops between the two amps. I may run the 100W Marshall at maybe 1/2 way up and the 50W Fender at 1/3. If I was to crank them higher the sustain becomes uncontrollable, especially using gain pedals.

 

The room is a converted 2 car garage so its pretty tight in there but I can at least crank a band up in there and not bother the neighbors or the wife. You can get blasted standing right in front of the amps but walk a few feet away out of the line of fire and you can practically talk over the volume when someone's playing. Great for isolating mics without having to use a bunch of sound proofed barriers.

 

There's of course drawbacks from using a dead room. All your reflections have to be emulated but that's not too bad because you do have those juicy tones that can only be captured by playing loud.

 

Using an attenuator to me is like me sticking small tires on my Mustang 5.0. I could tool around the neighborhood and sound like a big deal but my body cant connect with what I'm hearing because I'm not getting moving faster then a crappy 4 cylinder with zero get up an go. What's the use in owning a high powered sports car if you cant step down on the pedal and actually feel that engine push you back in the seat?

 

Same thing with amps. Using an attenuator robs me of the vibrations I feel when I play. You can get high gain out of any amp at low volume using stomp boxes. Bottlenecking the amps output and cranking its preamp wont give you the "feeling" high volume gives you. Those speakers need to be pumping air like pistons at you if you want to feel that tone and connect with it.

 

That's what Rock is all about after all. Without that big aggressive kick you get from moving speakers turned up you're essentially playing air guitar on a rubber balloon.

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[quote name=WRGKMC;n31791181

If your goal is to record in an apartment' date=' you could get one of these which would allow you to crank the head and not have the sound bothering the neighbors. This one made by Randall is about $399, the same cost for a good attenuator. If a V30 is your favorite speaker you could use one of those in this cab. http://www.zzounds.com/item--RANISO12C?siid=110161 You just need to make sure the cab is well padded from the floor because it can transfer vibrations through the floor which may bother the neighbors. sit it on a couch or chair with allot of padding and you're good to go.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n31791182[/ATTACH]

Thanks for all the responses, guys. Sorry I've away from this thread, didn't realise there were so many responses.

 

But wow! I never knew something like that existed. So this is another solution? I guess one of the reasons why I was so adamant on using an attenuator at the start was because I don't want to end up wasting my current gig. I no longer do gigging like I used to, so if I went down the route of purchasing a new amp, I would have to sell both my 4x12 cabs and Mesa head that sound amazing.

 

I will do some shopping and see what I find. Thanks!

 

 

EDIT: I suppose if I was willing to fork out $1000, I could purchase the Hughes&Kettner Tube Meister 5 half stack, which is a 5w tube amp and a 1x12 cab. Any thoughts?

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