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Gibson 498 Humbuckers vs P90s comparison


Tidal Rhythm

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That's a very cool vid, thanks for sharing, also loved the choice of tunes on it, and nice playing too. It made me want to get back to working on DFTR and Hells Bells, and learn Beast Of Burden.

 

I agree that in the video, the sound is quite a bit closer than one would think, but before I listened to it, my first thought was "WTF?".

 

I think the sound processor had something to do with homogenizing the sounds, but I could still hear more cut from the hotter 498T and more complex harmonics from the dual coil design. The P-90s sounded more rounded and warm.

 

I'm more of a 490T (versus 498) because I like the lower output and its more vintage sound, so a comparison between a 490T and a P-90 would have sounded even closer. (And of course, that SG most likely has a 490R in the neck) But I'm usually not a fan of a 498T because I usually find they need more gain to add some soft fuzzies to their tone,and without it, they can sound rather hard. Often times the bridge sound of a 498T reminds me of the tone of "knocking on wood" until I add some gain. Maybe a bit too "piano-ish" would be another way to explain my perception of them. The other thing to do is to lower the pickups a bit. The Gibson factory specs for p'up height is 1/16" from pole piece to bottom of strings for the bridge p'up and 3/32" for the neck (with holding the strings down at the highest pitch fret). Fiddling with them from there, you can lower them a bit which will soften the HB tone and reduce the contrast a bit too.

 

But I loved the sound he was getting from the 498T in this video. I agree with what onelife said above, but the more vintage styles, like the BB1 & BB2 combo, 490s or '57s will get you even closer.

 

Again, cool vid, thanks for posting.

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I have a Gibson SG standard Humbuckers and a Gibson SG Classic with 90's.Both are very cool guitars, I like the Standard much better and the crispier top end. Not only that the Standard has been with me since I purchased it new in 1980.It's like an old friend in my hands.

 

I think in my Standard there's 490's in the think. I'm not sure, as I have never taking it apart.

 

 

 

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I like the 498T. I quite often use a Les Paul and a Telecaster for gigs. I find that, for clean sounds, I can manage the 498T like the tele bridge pickup by utilizing the Volume and Tone controls. It also really does sound great when I open it up with some drive on the amplifier.

 

 

I agree with your take on the OP. There is a lot of similarity in the sounds and that would have something to do with the signal path. Also, there would be even less contrast with the 490T.

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Yeah, I have to admit, I'm not great at taking enough advantage of altering tone by nudging the volume down. Some amps encourage me to do that more than others (e.g. amps that are great edge of breakup sensitive), but honestly, I'm biased towards pickups where I like their tone with the vol. pots wide open. I probably perpetuated that habit from playing guitars where the pots make the p'ups sound more muddy when the vol. is rolled off a bit. Another comment I'd add is that I have a 498T in a LP Supreme, and it takes on quite a bit of a different character in that guitar since it has a maple top AND back with a chambered mahogany body core. The 498T in that guitar sounds a bit more like I'm listening to a 355. The first time I played that guitar out of the box, its tone made me jump into your basic Chuck Berry riff. Just saying, the 498T just sounded like a different animal to me in that one. And in general, I find that a p'up can vary quite a bit from one guitar's construction to another, even on similar models. I have a SG Std and later on, when I bought one for my son, his sounded sooo much better to my ears. Mine is the 2007 Silverburst GOW model with an ebony FB, and his is a 2012 with a baked maple FB, and I would have happily traded him for mine, but he could also hear the improvement of tone on his piece. Mine just sounds harder, and his sounds sweeter and more vibey. Since he's into metal, I thought we would have had the perfect swap there. :)

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I have a Gibson SG standard Humbuckers and a Gibson SG Classic with 90's.Both are very cool guitars, I like the Standard much better and the crispier top end. Not only that the Standard has been with me since I purchased it new in 1980.It's like an old friend in my hands.

 

I think in my Standard there's 490's in the think. I'm not sure, as I have never taking it apart.

 

 

 

I've long found myself to be an odd-duck out on having a bit more love for the 490T. I also have an SG Classic I got from MF (an MF exclusive). Maybe I was drawn by the color, but later on I also got a 2011 SG 60's Tribute with P-90s (i.e same configuration) & worn natural finish, and it sounds quite a bit more vibey than the MF Classic. I don't know what to attribute that to, but it might partly be due to the thinner finish. :idk:

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A compressed recording on YouTube can't give you any idea.

 

Play a P90 guitar exclusively for a few months, then pick up a Humbucker and you will immediately know the difference.

 

The P90 tone is clearer (I'd even say purer), the picking attack has more 'ping' to it, and there is much more dynamic response.

 

But you will never know the difference watching a YouTube video. And going from Humbucker to P90 won't tell you much. But after you are used to the P90, going back to the Humbucker is like going from a car with power steering to a car without power steering.

 

Not that there isn't a use for Humbuckers. While I prefer P90s, my compromise is Duncan P-Rails.Almost a P90 sound combined with a rail that can also be used together as a humbucker. I'd say at least 90 of what I play is in the P90 position.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

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A compressed recording on YouTube can't give you any idea.

 

Unless you watch it in HD. Youtube only compresses the audio in the lower formats. I used to upload my albums on Youtube and couldn't hear a difference between 480 and my lossless WAV files.

 

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yeah I agree.....people try to excuse way too much by claiming youtube compression is having an effect.

 

The difference between the two was VERY clear to my ears. That video was well done.

 

A user here a few years ago made a vid comparing his two les pauls....one with P90's and on with Humbuckers. That sounded much closer than this vid. I forgot his name. The guy from Colorado who had a bunch of nice gear. One of the few here who was into more expensive stuff.

 

 

 

 

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Compressed audio or not, what you hear on YouTube isn't what you hear live anyway. Even the official music videos for the big stars sound thinner on YouTube.

 

And I still say, play nothing but a P90 guitar for a month. Furthermore be sure to play it clean (perhaps some reverb only) every day. Then play a humbucker. You will notice the difference immediately.

 

It's like driving a car that handles better. You enjoy the experience, but say you gave your old car to your child and after a few months driving the new one, take your old car for a spin. Then you notice how much better your new car drives.

 

IMHO every guitarist needs 3 guitars. One with humbuckers, one with single coils and one with P90s.

 

Technically, the way I understand it is this:

 

The humbucker uses two opposing magnet poles (N & S) facing the string. This does two things (1) narrows the area of the string where the magnetic field influences it and (2) dampens the vibration of the strings 'compressing' the dynamics. It's a compromise (everything in electronics is s compromise). You eliminate the hum at the expense of performance. It's like giving up performance for better gas mileage in a car.

 

Again, I'm not anti-humbucker. They definitely have their own unique characteristics. But they aren't the best tool for every job.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

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Compressed audio or not, what you hear on YouTube isn't what you hear live anyway. Even the official music videos for the big stars sound thinner on YouTube.

 

And I still say, play nothing but a P90 guitar for a month. Furthermore be sure to play it clean (perhaps some reverb only) every day. Then play a humbucker. You will notice the difference immediately.

 

If the sound is that drastically different, then a Youtube video will pick it up.

 

And for what it's worth, they sound different in the video to me.

 

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The sound is different' date=' but more than that, the response is difference. It's like driving a sports car instead of a sedan.[/quote']

 

Interesting analogy. In my experience, the P-90 would be a Porsche with engine problems due to the noise and feedback, while a humbucker would be a well tuned truck.

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I like the sound of P90s but cannot tolerate the noise. I have a guitar with Gibson P100s that I find are a great compromise but a compromise nonetheless. My Fender guitars also have noiseless pickups some of which are Kinman.

 

I first started using Kinman pickups after Chris Kinman convinced me he could make a strat pickup that sounded so good, the fact that it is noiseless would be a bonus. Prior to that, I had Lace Sensors in my strat which were definitely usable but lacked some of the clarity of the original single coils. I was not disappointed - Kinman's pickups lived up to his claims.

 

Now Kinman claims to have created a noiseless P90 and a dual coil humbucker that maintains the clarity of the P90. He also suggests that Gibson's mandate to Seth Lover was to "silence the P90" but the pickups ended up having a sound of their own - not that it is a bad thing but, again, there are some compromises.

 

http://kinman.com/model-products.php?pid=2&products=Humbucker&modelid=39&model=P90-Bucker&group=

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I find those pickups quite articulate and was actually surprised how chimey the neck 490R sounded clean in my LP Custom Lite when I first played it. The video is interesting to me because the clean tones were less distinguishable in the mix. Where the P90s had an interesting elastic quality - and great separation, I thought the buckers shined a bit brighter with a little dirt. I do have a great sounding LP style guitar with P90s as well as a few with different bucker formations. I think the LP style pickups I like the most for any and all applications are some PAFs built by a small builder (sharptones)that are scatter wound with unbalanced coils.

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Every single coil pickup is subject to noise. Yes that includes strats, teles, and hundreds of others.

 

And yes, humbuckers get rid of the noise, at a price. The prices is tone, envelope, and dynamic response.

 

I play music for a living, and there is only one place where my P90s have enough noise to be noticeable over the ambient noise of the audience. There is definitely something wrong with the electricity there because the hum is very loud. My old solution was to have one P90 RWRP (Reverse Windings Reverse Polarity) so that by putting the selector into the 'both' position, it turned the combination into a giant humbucker.

 

My new guitar has P-Rails and I just switch the pickup to the humbucker mode.

 

Having a humbucker is like too many noise controls on the car. Sure it's quieter, but you don't hear mufflers on race cars because it hurts the performance and you won't win any races.

 

Everything in engineering is a compromise. Getting the hum out compromised the tone, envelope, and dynamic response.

 

As I said, I play for a living. Before I start playing the crowd is drinking, sometimes eating, and often talking. I can't hear any hum unless I get right on the speaker. And once I start playing, the music masks any hum that may be there.

 

Besides for that, in most places I play, there simply isn't any hum at all.

 

Perhaps because I use a line conditioner and hook everything to the same power source.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

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Every single coil pickup is subject to noise. Yes that includes strats, teles, and hundreds of others.

 

And yes, humbuckers get rid of the noise, at a price. The prices is tone, envelope, and dynamic response.

 

I play music for a living, and there is only one place where my P90s have enough noise to be noticeable over the ambient noise of the audience. There is definitely something wrong with the electricity there because the hum is very loud. My old solution was to have one P90 RWRP (Reverse Windings Reverse Polarity) so that by putting the selector into the 'both' position, it turned the combination into a giant humbucker.

 

My new guitar has P-Rails and I just switch the pickup to the humbucker mode.

 

Having a humbucker is like too many noise controls on the car. Sure it's quieter, but you don't hear mufflers on race cars because it hurts the performance and you won't win any races.

 

Everything in engineering is a compromise. Getting the hum out compromised the tone, envelope, and dynamic response.

 

As I said, I play for a living. Before I start playing the crowd is drinking, sometimes eating, and often talking. I can't hear any hum unless I get right on the speaker. And once I start playing, the music masks any hum that may be there.

 

Besides for that, in most places I play, there simply isn't any hum at all.

 

Perhaps because I use a line conditioner and hook everything to the same power source.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

 

How nice for you.

 

But some of us don't consider the humbucker a compromise, especially since some of the best tones ever were the results of their awesomeness.

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