Guitarists that zone out while playing

[Grant Harding]

Any of you played with (or are) a guitarist that just zones out when they play?

I know a couple of guys that just can't do anything when they're playing. Can't get their attention on stage. Like a trance. Very frustrating.

[WRGKMC]

Got to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

Next time walk up in back of them and whack them with the back of your guitar neck. Tell them if they cant pay attention to what going on, they can find another band.

 

Seriously though, it's something you have to sit down and talk to them about. If your are using illegal substances that are putting them in a trance tell them, work time isn't play time. Playing out is like any other job. You work as others enjoy themselves. If he wants to enjoy himself when the band is playing he can find a seat in the audience. The other players in the band have serious intensions with their music. If he doesn't share those intensions and wants to good off when he plays, tell him to put in his notice and start auditioning other players.

[stormin1155]

I sometimes zone out while playing... I am aware of what is going on around me and understand what people are saying. I just can't respond... the response part of my brain is paralyzed. I attribute the demise of my first two marriages on this condition.

[1001gear]

I'm a default head downer but that's just practicing. There's too much to focus on live to let your head loose. Not especially gifted entertainment wise. I find the babes in the audience the most distracting. Deer in the headlights you know...

[1001gear]

One more thing, that's drums not guitar.

[billybilly]

It's a skill and you can go in and out of those worlds by choice if you practice. It's kind of selfish when playing with others, yet, you can choose your moments. Playing alone, who cares.

[Grant Harding]

I'll usually try to get his attention a few times (if he's playing the wrong chords or is way too loud), then give up, smile and turn down a bit.

[WRGKMC]

Accidentally yank his power cord out when it happens again. The panic and embarrassment that will ensue will wake his ass up while he's dorking around on stage trying to figure out what happened will sober him up.

[Phil O'Keefe]

I'm like that when mixing... I focus in on what I'm listening to and tune out everything else. I can hear you, but I'm trying really hard not to because I'm concentrating on something else.

[Midlife Rocker]

Oh..God, don't get me started on this topic!!

I've got one in my band. Try doing a mic check with one of these zombies!!! The other "crap shoot" is ending a song. Some of our songs end in a mini jam. Everyone is good at looking at each other to end the song. Except our "zombie". I've had to throw empty beer cans at our guy to get his attention.

[onelife]

For me, it's all about the music. I've learned to tolerate idiosyncratic behaviour from talented musicians. Some of the "genius" types I have worked with are on the Autistic Spectrum and have their own way of connecting with the music.

 

I deal with people like this on a case by case basis. Sometime making an album can be like pulling teeth and doing a live show may involve some baby sitting but, as I said, it's all about the music so I'll do whatever it takes to make it happen.

[Grant Harding]

Yeah - that's the one.

[WRGKMC]

 

Its an acquired ability. For someone who sings and plays, their attention is even more divided. Keeping an eye on their queue's is always essential, because it isn't like they are able to turn their head.

 

Some of it does have to do with how long you've worked with people. I've found, If you have good players it takes about 6 months to begin to read other peoples minds through their music. Last band I played in we were together 12 years and it only took one look and everybody knew exactly what to do.

 

The rest I do rely on the drummer heavily for maintaining structure at the breaks and at ends of songs. A good drummer can queue people by the way they lead up to a part. They can ramp up to it in volume, use certain fills which you know are going to end a song even if you are out there hanging ten on the front of the stage. Its all stuff you have to work out amongst the players.

 

Its good is you have a disciplinary at rehearsals too. If someone is drifting they have to be told they missed their queue's. The person monitoring those queue's unfortunately wind up being the least satisfied and the most disturbed by drifters.

 

I'd played in bands with many younger players and what's even more annoying then a drifter is a leaner. A "leaner" is a musician who relies on others to guide him through his changes. The typical example is you cut to a lead part and the Leaner is over there still playing the verse or chorus when he should have cut to the bridge. None of your notes fit of course so you wind up having to modify your part because they completely missed the bus and go run over by it.

 

I find it worse then a drifter because I'm always having to second guess "Are they going to get it this time or are they going to make the same stupid mistake Again"

 

This all comes down to essentially the same thing. If you have a player and you ask them to rattle off the changes and they answer Intro - Verse - Chorus - Short lead - Verse - Chorus - Bridge - Chorus - Lead - Verse Chorus Chorus Lead - End - then you know they know the structure to that song. and likely have their Sh!.. wrapped tight.

 

If you get .... "its an D A E" - No Its "A D A E" Or they say Isn't that the one we do in E man? Or better Yet - Aren't you supposed to start that song?

 

I can think of dozens more but they all have the same root problem. The player hasn't got the musical structure memorized. Unless you can break the music down into blocks how can you possibly know what's in those blocks. That's one thing where musicians who can read music excel. They learn music in "Meters" which are blocks of time within the song.

 

You have to be able to look at music on an abstract level to save time working with others. A block of this music of course contains notes, but you shouldn't have to wade through all those notes to zero in on critical changes. Instead, you say, the intro is 4 bars of 4 whole beats, the entire verse is 12 bars ----- 1 bars A - 1 bars D - 2 bars A - - 2 bars D - - 2 bars A - - 1 bar E -- 1 bar d 2 bars A That's a 12 bar blues the most basic 3 chord song there is.

 

If someone says lets take it from the 9th bar add a bridge by extending the for 4 bars I guarantee most musicians would think you were speaking in an alien language, yet most of your professions in TV, Broadway, sessions musicians, orchestras and unionized professions who have steady gigs and have a musical enough education work that way all the time. They don't have time to spoon feed a kid still learning his ABC's, yet you'll ask those same kids if they know their basics and everyone of them will give you the bobble head.

 

Its frustrating working with other musicians who cant even get close to memorizing the music structure. Its one thing if you cant read and don't know about basic theory.

 

If a musician cant tell you the order of the basic blocks of the songs the way a singer deals with them, they "Cant" effectively anticipate what's coming up and be ready for it. I used to force players to follow the lyric and chord sheets I wrote up so they wouldn't be staring at their fingers. The verses, choruses and breaks are all there and can be clearly understood.

 

After a few sessions like that then they can ease off them but knowing the basic structure from the beginning is important. You have to know it well enough so it becomes an automated response and no distraction will make you forget when and where those changes will happen. Some people have to count measures.

 

The key is, can they play their song from beginning to end with no one else playing. A leaner cant because he relies on other peoples queue's to remind them when parts are coming up. They are "Always" a drag on the rest of the band. Its like dragging a trailer. You wish this guy would learn his parts instead of being a half click behind everyone else and towing the whole band down.

 

The thing is people in the band let them get away with it because they are so desperate to have players to work with.

 

I can go out and see any band and I can tell you which are the toadies in minutes. you can see it in their eyes, you can hear it in their notes.

Its a rare thing when you have all the players in sync and you can only get that when everyone knows exactly what's coming up and anticipates it correctly. Its bad enough battling the physical part of playing the notes well.

 

Having to prop up others who cant look ahead because they cant see ahead will eventually ruin every band, because being dependent on others intellectually for your musical queue's leads to being dependent on the other musicians to support you emotionally, and that's where things always go south.

 

[badpenguin]

this ^^

EXACTLY!!!! A reality moment or three, will bring it to his attention real quick.

[Chordite]

Only a girl would complain that men can't multitask

[catscurlyear]

how do you mean zoned out ,like hendrix when he was playing,he might have looked zoned out but was probs very much zoned in.

[jtr654]

I've been lucky I've never had this problem. Most players I work with have what I call BIG EARS that is you're listening to the other players and can make changes or cover up a mistake at the drop of a note . You have to have very intuitive players to do this its like reading Minds and knowing their every move. (Magic happens when everyone is on like this ) Once again I've been lucky in my live and Studio gigs. To tolerate this kind of player is only doing the rest of you harm GET Another player that's on the same page even if they are not as talented as the last.

[thatsbunk]

huh?

 

[Grant Harding]

He's a fairly novice musician, so not like Jimi. I think he just "goes inside" in his mind and then can't see or hear what's going on.

 

To be clear - he's a really great guy and this isn't a paying gig. They're friends and this is their band. I have NO animosity toward him.

[Grant Harding]

Completely understand. I'd never put up with this sort of thing in a pro band. You need everyone to be +10,000 hours of experience to get that casual awareness and ability to react on a dime. That's a more typical band situation for me.

[catscurlyear]

sorry koiwoi i aint reading the op properly again . i know a lot of people only hear what they are playing ,you should maybe put a note on the floor in front of him in big letters saying "listen to the rest of the band ,keep eye contact" or something to that effect .i sometimes have little reminders written out in front of me in my studio to be aware of certain stuff and it realy does help ,cause yes, the mind can wander or you can forget certain little disciplins in the heat of the moment which later you can regret.

[Grant Harding]

That's a good idea! A sign that says look up.

[catscurlyear]

follow the lyric

 

i agree with this .if you know the lyrics and any surounding melodys ,you know where you are full stop. all band members should do this including drummers

[humbuckerstrat]

Its an acquired ability. For someone who sings and plays, their attention is even more divided. Keeping an eye on their queue's is always essential, because it isn't like they are able to turn their head.

 

Some of it does have to do with how long you've worked with people. I've found, If you have good players it takes about 6 months to begin to read other peoples minds through their music. Last band I played in we were together 12 years and it only took one look and everybody knew exactly what to do.

 

The rest I do rely on the drummer heavily for maintaining structure at the breaks and at ends of songs. A good drummer can queue people by the way they lead up to a part. They can ramp up to it in volume, use certain fills which you know are going to end a song even if you are out there hanging ten on the front of the stage. Its all stuff you have to work out amongst the players.

 

Its good is you have a disciplinary at rehearsals too. If someone is drifting they have to be told they missed their queue's. The person monitoring those queue's unfortunately wind up being the least satisfied and the most disturbed by drifters.

 

I'd played in bands with many younger players and what's even more annoying then a drifter is a leaner. A "leaner" is a musician who relies on others to guide him through his changes. The typical example is you cut to a lead part and the Leaner is over there still playing the verse or chorus when he should have cut to the bridge. None of your notes fit of course so you wind up having to modify your part because they completely missed the bus and go run over by it.

 

I find it worse then a drifter because I'm always having to second guess "Are they going to get it this time or are they going to make the same stupid mistake Again"

 

This all comes down to essentially the same thing. If you have a player and you ask them to rattle off the changes and they answer Intro - Verse - Chorus - Short lead - Verse - Chorus - Bridge - Chorus - Lead - Verse Chorus Chorus Lead - End - then you know they know the structure to that song. and likely have their Sh!.. wrapped tight.

 

If you get .... "its an D A E" - No Its "A D A E" Or they say Isn't that the one we do in E man? Or better Yet - Aren't you supposed to start that song?

 

I can think of dozens more but they all have the same root problem. The player hasn't got the musical structure memorized. Unless you can break the music down into blocks how can you possibly know what's in those blocks. That's one thing where musicians who can read music excel. They learn music in "Meters" which are blocks of time within the song.

 

You have to be able to look at music on an abstract level to save time working with others. A block of this music of course contains notes, but you shouldn't have to wade through all those notes to zero in on critical changes. Instead, you say, the intro is 4 bars of 4 whole beats, the entire verse is 12 bars ----- 1 bars A - 1 bars D - 2 bars A - - 2 bars D - - 2 bars A - - 1 bar E -- 1 bar d 2 bars A That's a 12 bar blues the most basic 3 chord song there is.

 

If someone says lets take it from the 9th bar add a bridge by extending the for 4 bars I guarantee most musicians would think you were speaking in an alien language, yet most of your professions in TV, Broadway, sessions musicians, orchestras and unionized professions who have steady gigs and have a musical enough education work that way all the time. They don't have time to spoon feed a kid still learning his ABC's, yet you'll ask those same kids if they know their basics and everyone of them will give you the bobble head.

 

Its frustrating working with other musicians who cant even get close to memorizing the music structure. Its one thing if you cant read and don't know about basic theory.

 

If a musician cant tell you the order of the basic blocks of the songs the way a singer deals with them, they "Cant" effectively anticipate what's coming up and be ready for it. I used to force players to follow the lyric and chord sheets I wrote up so they wouldn't be staring at their fingers. The verses, choruses and breaks are all there and can be clearly understood.

 

After a few sessions like that then they can ease off them but knowing the basic structure from the beginning is important. You have to know it well enough so it becomes an automated response and no distraction will make you forget when and where those changes will happen. Some people have to count measures.

 

The key is, can they play their song from beginning to end with no one else playing. A leaner cant because he relies on other peoples queue's to remind them when parts are coming up. They are "Always" a drag on the rest of the band. Its like dragging a trailer. You wish this guy would learn his parts instead of being a half click behind everyone else and towing the whole band down.

 

The thing is people in the band let them get away with it because they are so desperate to have players to work with.

 

I can go out and see any band and I can tell you which are the toadies in minutes. you can see it in their eyes, you can hear it in their notes.

Its a rare thing when you have all the players in sync and you can only get that when everyone knows exactly what's coming up and anticipates it correctly. Its bad enough battling the physical part of playing the notes well.

 

Having to prop up others who cant look ahead because they cant see ahead will eventually ruin every band, because being dependent on others intellectually for your musical queue's leads to being dependent on the other musicians to support you emotionally, and that's where things always go south.

tl;dr

[Grant Harding]

Whoa! That's a long one!