Members catscurlyear Posted May 11, 2016 Members Share Posted May 11, 2016 hi there ,does anybody know what size pots are in these,are they 250k or 500k .thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted May 11, 2016 Members Share Posted May 11, 2016 I believe they're 250K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GAS Man Posted May 12, 2016 Members Share Posted May 12, 2016 I believe they're 250K. I believe that is correct. I've owned two of them. Bought the first one used, thought it was a bit too muddy sounding, so I sold it. Then I decided I missed it so I bought another one new. LOL. But I like the 2nd one a little bit better. Maybe it was the 11s on the first one, or the after market Graphtech saddles, I dunno, but the new one sounded more vibey stock. Now back to topic. Folks blame the lack of Fendery vibe on 2 factors, A) they don't make the "wide range humbuckers" like they used to; or B) they use 250K pots instead of 500K, the later of which would open the sound up for more treble presence (although I believe I remember reading that the 250K was the original spec) Another option is to drop $420 for a set of Lollar Regal HBs and then possibly leave the pots stock. But it was really when I sold my first one, and was getting it ready for shipping, that I played it one last time and thought, "damn, this thing sounds soooo "classic rock" when I'm playing from the bridge position with a bit of overdrive. That sound made me want another one again. But its really not the sound the originals produced. The originals weren't as far away from the sound of single coils as are Fender's newer Wide Range HBs But I've got too many gits, but I think this thread may inspire me to get mine back out for another rotation when I get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted May 12, 2016 Members Share Posted May 12, 2016 Interesting timing. I'm working on a 72 reissue thin line that was involved in a bar brawl. Has some structural damage to the neck pocket (I guess when you swing a guitar like a baseball bat that turns out to be the weak point) - probably not repairable where I can't guarantee it won't fail in the future. Too bad, its a pretty nice guitar. Its got humbuckers, if you want to know the pot values I guess I could pull the p/g off and look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted May 12, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 12, 2016 cheers guys for the replys ,from reading what gasman said i think i`ll ring the owner up and ask him if he thought it maybe sounded a bit dark and if he fancies some 500ks putting in, .but anyway .thanks, the pots were covered in solder and i couldn`t see clearly what they said . no signal is getting through this guitar, no wires are off so i suspect the pots , a couple of the pots are turning further than what they should be they feel cheap and knackered ,i suspected they were 250s but confused me a bit cause of the humbuckers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted May 12, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 12, 2016 this guitar has got far too many screws holding the pickguard down, ballache lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted May 12, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 12, 2016 i just rang the owner and he liked how it sounded so 250k`s it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted May 12, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 12, 2016 sussed it,earth was missing to the back of t`pots .oh well. pots are all working but they do feel like cheapos . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted May 12, 2016 Members Share Posted May 12, 2016 . . . A) they don't make the "wide range humbuckers" like they used to; or B) they use 250K pots instead of 500K' date=' the later of which would open the sound up for more treble presence (although I believe I remember reading that the 250K was the original spec) . . .[/quote'] A typical pickup has a peak at 2-5KHz with a dropoff above that. A humbucker has two such peaks. Changing the value of the pots changes where the peak falls, which some folks interpret as "open[ing] the sound up" or "sound[ing] a bit dark" depending on where the peak ends up. Active pickups normally don't have those peaks due to built-in EQ, which is why they're said to sound "sterile." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted May 12, 2016 Members Share Posted May 12, 2016 fwiw, I pulled the p/g off the thinline and it has 250K pots. I haven't played it or heard it so I don't know how it sounds (and I'm a pretty poor judge of electric guitar sounds LOL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted May 13, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 13, 2016 interesting stuff, first time i experienced it was when i had 250k`s in with some humbuckers i put in a strat i couldn`t understand why it sounded so muddy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted May 13, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 13, 2016 i`ll have this one up and running tomorrow (Friday) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted May 13, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 13, 2016 nice guitar, look a bit indie band ish ,after messing with this i would get one of these ,mixing a fender with les paul type pickup ,control configs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GAS Man Posted May 13, 2016 Members Share Posted May 13, 2016 I did a fair amount of reading on the pickups and pots some time ago when I was looking to possibly upgrade the stock electronics and their tone. And one bit I remember reading (that I should have added above) was that while the treble may increase with 500K pots, it's not getting you necessarily closer to what the vintage '72s (Thinlines, Customs and Deluxes) sounded like with the original Fender WR p'ups. On a side note, I own all 3 of those RIs (the Custom is a Road Worn version which sounds rather resonant with its ultra thin finish - just don't care for the rough back of neck finish) and I think the stock reissue version of the electronics sound best on the Thinlines. Naturally, that body routing opens up the guitar for a bit more top end tone. But back on topic, both Wiki and the Curtis Novak site have some decent reads on this topic. I know I've found more references in the past regarding upgrading to "the vintage tone" but these two are helpful. From Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Wide_Range From Curtis Novak.com http://curtisnovak.com/pickups/repairs/WRHB-ri/and I noted, he can mod the RI p'ups or send you his own version with the CuNiFe threaded rod magnets for less money than the Lollars. The Novak models are more correct to vintage spec, but then Lollar claims his sound even a bit better than the original WR p'ups. Either way, an upgrade is something I'd like to do - someday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted May 13, 2016 Members Share Posted May 13, 2016 interesting stuff' date=' first time i experienced it was when i had 250k`s in with some humbuckers i put in a strat i couldn`t understand why it sounded so muddy .[/quote'] Here's a graph that shows the effects of various volume pot values: [ATTACH=CONFIG]n31737176[/ATTACH] The upper trace is a 10 Meg pot. We can ignore that. The next three down are 1 Meg, 470 K, and 220 K, pretty close to typical pot values. Going from 220 K to 470 K increases the output at 4KHz or so by 4dB, which is enough to make the pickup sound "brighter." Going the other direction can make it sound "muddy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted May 13, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 13, 2016 Here's a graph that shows the effects of various volume pot values: The upper trace is a 10 Meg pot. We can ignore that. The next three down are 1 Meg, 470 K, and 220 K, pretty close to typical pot values. Going from 220 K to 470 K increases the output at 4KHz or so by 4dB, which is enough to make the pickup sound "brighter." Going the other direction can make it sound "muddy." the humbucker i was refering to in the strat would have been a high output maybe 16k,the output of the fender tele deluxe bridge humbucker pickup is 8.2k..In my jaguar the pots are 1 meg and the stock pickups are 6k output,i found them too bright ,i had the bridge pickup re wound up to 8.5k and now it`s one of my best sounding guitars for rock stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted May 13, 2016 Members Share Posted May 13, 2016 the humbucker i was refering to in the strat would have been a high output maybe 16k' date='the output of the fender tele deluxe bridge humbucker pickup is 8.2k..In my jaguar the pots are 1 meg and the stock pickups are 6k output,i found them too bright ,i had the bridge pickup re wound up to 8.5k and now it`s one of my best sounding guitars for rock stuff.[/quote'] No idea what having pickups rewound costs but it has to be more expensive than simply replacing the pots. 500K or 250K sounds like a better fit for what you needed. BTW, the 16K, 8.2K, 6K, etc. spec is for the resistance of the pickup. A higher impedance pickup typically has more output but that's not how it's usually expressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catscurlyear Posted May 13, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 13, 2016 No idea what having pickups rewound costs but it has to be more expensive than simply replacing the pots. 500K or 250K sounds like a better fit for what you needed. BTW, the 16K, 8.2K, 6K, etc. spec is for the resistance of the pickup. A higher impedance pickup typically has more output but that's not how it's usually expressed. it didn`t cost that much realy for a rewind only about £15 if that ,kent armstrong did it ,i was just experimenting ,i knew that the bigger the number 8.2k as opposed to 6k would give an higher output driving the amp harder and slightly dull the tone ,it worked out well .just changing the pot would not have done this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted May 14, 2016 Members Share Posted May 14, 2016 If you want to understand and hear the effects of the different components in the signal chain I highly recommend going down to the various videos on electronics here http://www.annarborguitars.com/styled-4/index.html Don't bring any sacred cows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted May 17, 2016 Moderators Share Posted May 17, 2016 I had exactly the same problem with one last week that I'd sold, the earth bus was all over the place. One thing I did find that was when I lowered the pickups right down, and dialled the amp a tad more it was a lot janglier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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