Members Dickie ZA Posted October 7, 2015 Members Share Posted October 7, 2015 Hi everyone, I'm new here and require some assistance. I started working at a guitar service/repair shop not too long ago and have been asked by the owner to try and determine what guitar this is. It's not a test, so you're not helping me cheat or anything. A customer brought it in, in this condition and asked us to restore it under the impression that it is a genuine Gibson ES335. I've been googling websites and images trying to find the same with no luck. Many of the components are missing or just taken from other guitars, for example a Fender Strat volume knob etc. The only one I think actually is part of the original guitar is the vibrato tailpiece which is similar to a Bigsby B6. One of the most distinctive features it has is a zero fret which makes me think it's European, but I could be wrong. If anyone can identify this guitar it will be a tremendous help. We just want to know what we have, so we know what we can do with it. Thanks Dickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr.Grumpy Posted October 7, 2015 Members Share Posted October 7, 2015 Not a genuine Gibson headstock. Looks like any number of late 60s to mid 70s 'lawsuit' guitars which were usually made in Japan. Some of these old Japanese guitars are quite good, others are mediocre to poor quality. There's no label visible through the F-hole? Why was the headstock sanded? Why is the body stuffed with newspaper? Looks like the owner thought he could do the 'restoration' himself then realized he was over his head and brought it to a shop. That guitar won't be worth more than about $300 even fully restored, so unless the guitar has sentimental value it's not worth spending a lot of time/money on restoration, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted October 7, 2015 Members Share Posted October 7, 2015 ^^^^ What he saidDo you have any of the "missing pieces"? The pickups could give a clue as to origin and quality. I'd pull out some newspaper to look for a label or some sort of markings,plus I'd look at the date on the paper to guess how long it's been in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted October 7, 2015 Members Share Posted October 7, 2015 Also, pics of the neck, back and front, neck joint, back of the headstock. Pull the newspaper out of the thing. There may be a label or a mark somewhere on the neck block. It's obviously Japanese from the zero fret, probably from the mid 70's.The rounded off inlays "look" like Matsomuku, but we need more pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted October 7, 2015 Members Share Posted October 7, 2015 The headstock inlay is a copy of a 60's Gibson B45 Acoustic. I couldn't find an electric Gibson with the double triangle that might have lead to a copy search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKCM Posted October 7, 2015 Members Share Posted October 7, 2015 What are the pictures inside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t_e_l_e Posted October 7, 2015 Members Share Posted October 7, 2015 back image of the neck would be helpfull. if it is bolt on (with screws) its definitely no gibsonalso compared to the gibson B45 the triangles are too high, so the gibson logo has almost no space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dickie ZA Posted October 7, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2015 Hi guys, Thanks for all the advice so far. Have pulled the newspaper out, but no markings/labels/names of any kind inside. The customer brought in an ice cream tub with the components, but there is an assortment of machineheads, no pick ups and one Strat volume knob. According to the customer he bought it from someone who was planning to restore it, but gave up or never got to it. Apparently that is the person who brought it to it's current condition. Been trying to get in touch with this person, but no luck so far. The owner of the shop explained that even restored it won't really be worth much, but as they say they say "the customer is always right" and the guy still wants it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted October 7, 2015 Members Share Posted October 7, 2015 It' is his guitar and his money.I would not want to over restore it for 2 reasons. First cost and second retaining some of the age or charecter gives it mojoBut he's the customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted October 7, 2015 Members Share Posted October 7, 2015 First,Dickie, welcome to HCEG. I'm certainly not an expert of 335's but I've just finished building a clone of one and did a bunch of research on them. A couple of comments - most of the 335 style guitars have the neck route all the way into the pickup cavity (it looks like your cavities are separated by some top wood). There are two versions - short and long tenon. The long tenon goes all the way thru the cavity, like a LP, the short one does not. Because these guitars have the neck to body joint at the 19th fret they are much weaker - the short tenon versions have a tendency to fail. Make sure you fix that (and get the neck angle right) if there are any problems. Some 335's came with a Bigsby, most did not. Most have a ToM and stop tailpiece. Does yours have a floating bridge? What are those black dots on the treble bout and f-hole? I haven't seen a zero fret on any Gibby Fishing the wiring thru the f-holes is a bit of a bitch. Make yourself a jig to hold all the parts in place while you wire them, then put the whole she-bang inside. I actually prewired a lot of mine while the back was off but you don't have that option. I don't know what "restore" means - in my opinion old guitars like this should be made playable but doing extensive refinish is not only wasted, often not a good thing to do. Fretboard and frets, pups and wiring, neck angle, fixing any structural issues, good setup are probably all I would do to it. You could still put many hundreds of dollars into in - probably best to give your customer an accurate estimate before starting. Lets see more pictures when its done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted October 7, 2015 Members Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'm certainly not an expert of 335's but I've just finished building a clone of one and did a bunch of research on them. A rather modest comment but, then again, the truly great ones usually are modest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted October 7, 2015 Members Share Posted October 7, 2015 Fishing the wiring thru the f-holes is a bit of a bitch. Make yourself a jig to hold all the parts in place while you wire them' date=' then put the whole she-bang inside. I actually prewired a lot of mine while the back was off but you don't have that option.[/quote'] On my '68 "pencil neck" ES-335 and '03 ES-137 the treble pickup cavities open into the lower bout so all of the electronics (with the exception of the neck pickup) can be soldered together outside of the guitar and installed though the pickup cavity. I usually run some bits of telephone wire through the control holes and attach them to the controls so can pull them through into position. The wire also keeps the washers from falling of the pots while they are being dragged through the inside of the guitar and hold the controls in place while I put the nuts on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted October 7, 2015 Members Share Posted October 7, 2015 . . . Why is the body stuffed with newspaper? . . . Hollowbodies were sometimes stuffed with rags to minimize feedback. My guess would be the newspapers served the same purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted October 8, 2015 Members Share Posted October 8, 2015 Hollowbodies were sometimes stuffed with rags to minimize feedback. My guess would be the newspapers served the same purpose. My guess is that the person that started this was stripping finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted October 8, 2015 Members Share Posted October 8, 2015 Good information for the next one (if I ever do this again).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted October 8, 2015 Members Share Posted October 8, 2015 Surgical tubing works best. You can squeeze it over the pot shaft and pull the pots right in without getting hung up. Washers and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted October 8, 2015 Members Share Posted October 8, 2015 Still waiting on the requested pics, so we can help you identify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dickie ZA Posted October 16, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 16, 2015 Hey guys. Thanks for taking the time and helping out. Here are some more pics that may or may not help. The neck seems to be made from a laminated plywood. The binding along the neck is incorrect as well. Usually there's just a gap between the end of the fret board and head stock for the nut. With this one there's no gap, but the binding around the head stock sits lower than around the fret board. Stuck the camera inside the neck pickup cavity and took a pic, but not much to see other than one support. Added a pic of the components as well, but don't think they will be of any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted October 16, 2015 Members Share Posted October 16, 2015 Teisco, possibly Kawai made. Made in Japan sometime in the mid 60's to early 70's. (From 64 or so, the maybe 71) The plywood neck gives it away. Brand names could have been: Domino, Kawai, Teisco, Aria (few and far between), Bruno, Ventura.... ad nausum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted October 17, 2015 Members Share Posted October 17, 2015 Looks like you've got quite a project. Report back when its done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jtr654 Posted October 18, 2015 Members Share Posted October 18, 2015 Framus is the only maker that I know of that dose the multi piece neck like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dickie ZA Posted October 22, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 22, 2015 Thanks for all the help guys. Will do some more research, but the Ventura models mentioned by badpenguin are by far the closest that I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted October 22, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2015 That guitar could literally be absolutely anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted October 22, 2015 Members Share Posted October 22, 2015 Oh yeah..... possible Eko too. I forgot they did plywood ie: laminate necks too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted October 22, 2015 Members Share Posted October 22, 2015 Oh yeah..... possible Eko too. I forgot they did plywood ie: laminate necks too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.