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Question for electric 12 string players


Freeman Keller

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How do you string and tune your guitar? I have lots of experience with acoustic 12 strings (I own 3, 2 of which I built) but I'm working on an electric 12 and don't have much experience with them

 

So what string gauges, composition, possibly brands do you use? Do you tune to concert or down, if so how much (I don't care about altered tunings)? Do you string "normal" (octaves on even positions) or bass-ackwards (ala Richenbacher)? When you set your intonation how do you handle the octaves?

 

This particular guitar is 24.5 scale, set neck, cheaply built and strung normal (I don't plan to change that). One thing that scares me is that that the neck joins the body at the 21st fret (it does have a full 24 frets). That means the tenon and pocket are shallower than I am used to seeing - potentially a very weak neck joint. I know what I would do if it were mine, but just curious what others do with theirs.

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First you need to use Electric nickel/steel, 12 string sets. They can be a bit harder to find, but the major manufacturers have them. Most sets are thinner then most acoustics are as well, 9~42 or 10~46 for the normal set are common. http://www.juststrings.com/ghstwelve...arboomers.html You could go higher on a shorter scale but you're talking about some major wrist fatigue on an electric were you may be strapping this up and standing to play it.

 

 

Other then that, everything else is the same as an acoustic, except for the bridge which usually has two sets of compensators, one for the normal set and one for the octaves. Thinner strings need more compensation so the saddles are split and you have an adjustment for each string.

 

Tuning will normally be concert pitch and normal string order. I don't know about Ricks being strung backwards. I've played plenty of them including the one my buddy played in my band doing 60's stuff and all were strung normal like this one.

 

 

rickenbacker-36012-old-style-12-string-electric-guitar.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The saddles are movable so I suppose you could do it bass akwards if you recut the nut and saddles, but I wouldn't do it that way. You'd be more likely to break the thin strings.

 

There used to be some BC rich guitars that double sets of first two strings. I always thought it would be cool to have two sets on normal strings but bends would be more difficult without a whammy.

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On my Danelectro 12 string It's octave first then the root note (looking from the top of the guitar). I've only restrung it once since I've owned it (had it for about a year now). Come to think of it it may be time to restring again.

 

I don't recall the brand of string i used but i think it was a standard light set (10-46 prolly). I tune to standard tuning.

The dano has 12 individual saddles too so setting the intonation is easy (I got lucky & bought one that was set up perfectly when I got it).

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..... I don't know about Ricks being strung backwards. I've played plenty of them including the one my buddy played in my band doing 60's stuff and all were strung normal like this one.

 

 

rickenbacker-36012-old-style-12-string-electric-guitar.jpg

 

 

.

 

"Normal" 12 string stringing for both acoustics and electrics is for the primaries to be on the odd numbered strings (as well as the second and fourth, of course) - what Thatsbunk has. Ricks were noted for having the primaries on the even positions - 6, 8, 10, and 12. Its hard to tell with my bad eyes but I think that is what your picture shows.

 

The one I'm working on it "normal" - I'm not going to change it (that would involve a new nut). Unfortunately also, it has a ToM bridge with one saddle per course (pair of strings) - they cannot be individually compensated. My plan is to intonate the primaries and let the octaves fall where they may.

 

D'Addario only has one set of nickel 12 strings - 0.010 thru 0.046. That would be a "light" set on an acoustic tuned to concert at about 215 pounds. That seems like a lot of tension for you electric guys - I typically think of your guitars at 100 - 120 pounds. I was thinking that someone must make sets of say 0.008 to 0.042 or so but haven't found any. I also routinely tune my acoustics down two to four semi tones - wondering if any electric players do that.

 

Anyone else out there have an electric 12

 

 

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I have an electric semi-hollow 12 string. I am unsure what you mean by "primaries," so unless you are kind enough to explain for me, can't help there.

 

I've toyed with tuning down, up, and sideways (open G). To make an impossibly long story short, the variance in tension was a headache, but not insurmountable. It was about the frequency of change. As far as string gauge goes, yeah, so, I buy individual strings and just restring that way, but I'm ready for a restring and 9-42 are where I'm headed. I hear you on the tension, but in a nutshell even with lighter strings than I usually use, the 12-string seems stiffer than even, say, a short-scale with 11's on it.

 

What are you trying to figure out?

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I have an electric semi-hollow 12 string. I am unsure what you mean by "primaries' date='" so unless you are kind enough to explain for me, can't help there. . . .[/quote']

"Primaries" are what some of us call the regular strings that are tuned normally, vs. the octaves that are tuned an octave higher.

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On my Rickenbacker, I put on the "primary" set first, then the harmony set. Restringing a Ric is the biggest pain in the a$$. The headstock design is fine for tuning after a restring, but actually putting strings on sucks, and my headstock has a few chips in the paint. Doesn't matter since it's the one guitar I'll keep until death.

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9/42 should be light enough. Having fixed saddles for each string isn't so hot but with heavier strings it wouldn't be any worse then an acoustic that has a fixed bridge. You could set the saddles so both strings are slightly compensated. There are many 12 string replacement bridges out there if you did want to modify the guitar for better intonation. https://www.google.com/search?q=12+string+electric+bridge&biw=1280&bih=951&site=webhp&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CD4QsARqFQoTCMW_87r9y8cCFU9BkgodhPEB4g

 

 

You could under-tune it but with light strings I'd suspect the strings would bend sharp too easily and make the issues even worse.

 

You probably wont find 8's. The G octave string would be too thin, like .006 is a set like that. With 9's the octave G is likely a .007 which is the lightest electric string normally made. (they used to make .007 six string electric sets back in the 70's. I tried them a few times back then. Talk about flexible. You could bend three strings at the same time. They didn't last long and would constantly break)

 

10's would probably be better for tuning down to D. The octave G should be an 008 in those sets. 8's should be fairly durable. I have a guitar set up for Nashville tuning using .010 for the high E string and it uses a .008 for the G

 

If its an actual 12 string and not a modified 6, I'd think they would make the neck and truss capable of handling the extra tension.

I used to down tune my acoustic 12 string to C tuning and capo the 3rd fret for normal pitch. The third fret has less issues with strings

bending sharp. The acoustic lasted me about 5 years before the neck and body warping became a major issue.

 

I had a used Hagstrom 12 string electric back in 76. It had a badly twisted neck and a bunch of parts missing. I made it into a 6 string and was able to coax the neck back a bit. It was a truly awful guitar to play though. The neck size was massively wide and other then playing root chords it wasn't of much use. I've never liked sea green since I owned that one.

 

I think a dual truss rod or having carbon fiber reinforcement bars would be a must building a 12 string today.

 

 

 

 

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I have an electric semi-hollow 12 string. I am unsure what you mean by "primaries," so unless you are kind enough to explain for me, can't help there.

 

I've toyed with tuning down, up, and sideways (open G). To make an impossibly long story short, the variance in tension was a headache, but not insurmountable. It was about the frequency of change. As far as string gauge goes, yeah, so, I buy individual strings and just restring that way, but I'm ready for a restring and 9-42 are where I'm headed. I hear you on the tension, but in a nutshell even with lighter strings than I usually use, the 12-string seems stiffer than even, say, a short-scale with 11's on it.

 

What are you trying to figure out?

 

Primaries are the strings tuned as you would a standard guitar - the phat one of the pair. My question is do you tune those to concert pitch or down one or more semi tones. I'm also asking what gauge you use on each string.

 

I recognize that people tune to all sorts of different tunigs - I have three acoustics and right now one is in open G down two steps, one is in open D down two steps and the long scale (26.5") is tuned "standard" but down four steps. I understand all about the interaction between scale, tuning, tension and playability (and stress on the guitar). I'm just asking an academic question for 12 string owners.

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. . . You probably wont find 8's. The G octave string would be too thin' date=' like .006 is a set like that. . . .[/quote']

No, you won't find them unless you look:

Ernie Ball and Rotosound both make 8-40 sets for electric 12-string: http://www.juststrings.com/ebl-2230.html' date=' http://www.juststrings.com/rts-r30xl.html. That's the direction I'd go.[/quote']

The octave G for both sets is an 8, which isn't that uncommon for 12-string sets.

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Its uncommon enough where it wouldn't be my choice. I found a total of three sets of 8's that have G's that match the E's (and one that was actually heavier). All others were lighter by one or two gauges.

 

.008 for a G string would definitely feel too weird to me. Light strings are so flexible at the frets. Unless the frets are paper thin, that sucker would cause a real problem. Most 12 string sets are balanced by having the G string lighter then the E so when its tuned up two full notes, the tension feels right.

 

Using the same gauge is like stringing a guitar with two B strings and trying to tune the top string up 5 frets. You know its not right by the feel.

 

I did a search to see if they even make .007's any more and only came up with only a few. Dunlop makes a 6 string set and you can buy singles. You could replace that g string with a .007 but the sets are awfully light as is for a 12 string. You'll spend more time trying to keep the darn thing in tune then actually playing it. The root chords will especially bend sharp.

 

I use 8.5~40's occasionally on my regular guitars every once an awhile and the guitar has to be setup extremely well to use them without string buzz or twanging sharp. They're not so hot for chords either. 9's are as low as I'd likely go on a 12 and maybe even 10's so they're last awhile. 12 strings are twice the work to restring and 8's don't last much more then two weeks before they get sour just being on a guitar and not being played much.

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I took my Rickenbacker 360-12 to the shop last week for a string change. Changing strings on that thing is normally a two-plus hour ordeal for me. I went back to a standard Rick string set. I previously had a set of GHS Boomer Lights but I was not particularly fond of them. I'll stick with Ricks in the future ...

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Except that we're talking about 12-string sets. There are two 8's for the high E, which means roughly the same tension as a single 11. That also means less possibility of notes pulling sharp. The 8 I mentioned for a G is the octave, which is easy to see from my post. You mentioned, erroneously, that the G octave would be 6 or so and I was correcting that impression. The primary G for both sets is a 14 so it's not the same size as the E. Other than that, an octave G that's the same size as the high E is, in fact, fairly common for 12-string sets, which is what we're talking about. These are sets that have been put together by people who know what they're doing so I'd think for the most part they'd "feel" just fine, other than matters of individual preference. If you don't like them, there are 12-string sets available in heavier gauges.

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Thank you everyone who responded - especially those of you who actually have electric twelve strings. I can't believe it takes two hours to restring a Rick - it takes me about fifteen minutes to restring my slothead twelve. Maybe two hours to tune it.....

 

I'll post some pictures of the repair I'm doing - the reason for my questions will be a little more apparent.

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