Members AlamoJoe Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 Why the hell it is, ya suppose, that By God Leo Fender did not think it was nessecary to have a tone pot for the bridge pickup on a Strat? I've had one since '81, and it has puzzled me ever since.Y'all can laugh now if ya wanna. But I want to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 Ainorite !?? People would wonder whyTF the treble pickup has a friggin tone pot. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlamoJoe Posted August 18, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 Ainorite !?? People would wonder whyTF the treble pickup has a friggin tone pot. (?) Two or more sides to every story I suppose.I asked an honest question. Obviously, you do not have an answer for it. Thank you for your opinion however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 It's a mod I've done to one of my Strats - sharing the middle tone pot. Need to do it to my American Standard because it's my brightest twangiest Strat. Definitely a fair question in my book and depending on how you look at it, a bit of an oversight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 I think of the original Strat as a Beta design that's been superceded. He got that bit wrong. When I compare the range of tones I can get from my H-H-H config with splitting and the ability to get neck+bridge it's no contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 I wasn't a big tone control user until I started playing telecasters - it's not the I ignored them but the tele is different. The tone control on the tele seems to affect the volume too. Thinking of the design of the strat in terms of the evolution of the single volume control telecaster, having the opportunity to have separate tone control settings for each of the three selector switch settings gave the player a few "presets" they could get to quickly. The jazzmaster and jaguar took this preset idea one step further with the rhythm switch which selected the neck pickup through a different volume and tone control the was recessed into the body. In 1954 the tone control setup on a strat probably seemed pretty cool but certainly has its shortcomings these days. I set my strats up so one tone control is for the two outside switch positions (1,5) and the other is for the middle three positions (2,3,4). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Guitarax Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 Why the hell it is, ya suppose, that By God Leo Fender did not think it was nessecary to have a tone pot for the bridge pickup on a Strat? I've had one since '81, and it has puzzled me ever since. Y'all can laugh now if ya wanna. But I want to know! Good question. The most recent AmSt now have the middle and bridge pup wired to the 2nd tone, but below is an explanation from a regarded book source as to why they didn't do it "back in the day"..... A.R. Duchossior's book "The Fender Stratocaster" explanation... Page #6 : "It was considered that the lead pickup near the bridge did not require any kind of tone correction if it was to deliver a very bright sound. In those days, amplifiers were rather deficient at the top end and the Stratocaster lead pickup was thus meant to give "clear ringing highs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 I played Gibsons before Fenders and I found it annoying at first. It took me a long time to "Get" the reasons behind the design, and when I understood Leo wasn't a guitarist it all started making more sense. After listening to how the guitar was used as designed on recordings it was obvious people used the bridge for clean Surf Music type cutting lead tones. It wasn't till a decade later when people started gaining up their amps that driven tones became popular and hit a high point with Hendrix. I cant blame Fender from sticking to their original design and since we have a choice between adapting to the instrument, Choosing another, or modifying it for a master tone, its really no big deal. I don't think I have any of my Strats wired with two tone pots any more. I have one with an active tone filters, another with onboard distortion, one with a tone (low pass filter) and a bass pot (high pass filter) and my one only has a master volume and master tone. The biggest adjustment I had to make was giving up the ability to adjust the volume of individual pickups to get the optimum pickup gains. On a Gibson with both pickups selected you could adjust the gain on the bridge up and dial up some clean neck volume and it would warm the bridge tone. On a Strat the pickups were all or nothing. The first Strats I owned had a 3 way switches so I'd float the switch in between notches for the 2nd and 4th positions which helped with having pairs of pickups running. Later when doing mods I wired three volumes but that didn't work out so well. single coils don't gain up like Humbuckers do and they don't blend the same either. In the end I just adapted to the instrument and played it as designed. Even the ones I modified are pretty much set it an forget it. Same thing with a Tele. I just use it stock and got used to the 3 way switch.other Tele builds I've done using Mini Humbuckers I use two volumes instead of a master and tone. Those pickups blend well with separate volume controls to get the varying amounts of tone I'm used to. I do like my one Strat that has 3 mini switches however. The switches are on off on DPDT's and They are wired for Normal and Reverse Phasing with the center off. The switch combinations give me around 16 different tones vs. 5 with a five way switch. If you've never tried using reverse phase switches on a strat, you should give it a try. Some of the settings do sound thin because you are using phase cancellation, but having two forward and one reverse can sound incredible gained up. Some of the settings can cut through with some incredible high end expression, plus you have the neck and bridge and all three pickup selections to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 The Strat is not as bright as a Telecaster. Putting a tone pot on the bridge ,especially 250k, blleds off trebble.Maybe he didn't put a tone control on the bridge because no load pots had not yet been invented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 ^^ They had them, just not the way you'd expect. The pots with an on off switch when you turn them on were commonly used in table top radios. You can easily make a no load pot by using the on off switch to remove the cap when you turn the pot all the way down and click the switch. Its just no load doesn't make that big a difference in tone with many vintage amps/speakers. You hear it more with higher fidelity gain boxes and effects used today but again, playing in a live band with drum cymbals dominating the high end its never going to be noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 IMHO Leo got a lot of things right, but a few things wrong. Nobody's perfect you know. And of course, what is wrong for one, may be perfect for somebody else. I think a master volume and a master tone is the best setup. That way you can make quick adjustments mid-song. What I think Leo got wrong was calling the vibrato a tremolo. But Vibrato and tremolo often get confused and mixed up because each can have a bit of the other. Tremolo is predominantly volume differences and vibrato is mostly pitch. Take the tremolo on the guitar amp (when equipped) - cycles volume. Or rapidly double-picking a string, also called tremolo. Now take wavering the pitch like a trombone, voice, saxophone, or vibraharp - that's called vibrato. But things do get messy. A flute player, who has no efficient rapid pitch control uses diaphragm pressure, creating more of a tremolo effect, but as the only instrument in the orchestra that doesn't use pitch for vibrato, the flute player calls his/her tremolo vibrato to keep a common language. In the wind synthesizer world, tremolo is always volume, vibrato is always pitch. I think the short radius was a mistake too, but others love it. But Leo did get the contoured body right, as well as the shape for both high fret access and no neck dive. I think it's a good looking guitar as well. I would have put a master volume and a master tone only. But then there would be others who didn't like that. And I couldn't have built the rest of the guitar Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 I use master vol,.master tone (no load )and the third controli (500k) is an adjustle coil tap for the humbucker bridge. This also helps balance the bridge volume. I'm happy for now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 If we think of it in terms of the tone control and selector switch rather than tone control and pickup, it is like having three separate tone control settings available. Add to that the fact that signal for each of the three positions originates from separate pickup and the result is a versatile tool for the working guitarist who needed to quickly switch from mellow rhythm bits to a bright and louder sound for the solo. By having the 'preset' tone control on one of the other switch positions, the player could quickly return to the same mellow rhythm sound. Gibson accomplished the same thing with independent volume and tone controls for the two outside positions of the selector switch. I like Leo's idea of one volume control (which also acts as a 'panic' switch) so I actually think the original strat setup was a great idea for the working guitarist. I played them for years that way with the three way switch although I sometimes wired the bridge and middle pickups together in the middle position but left the tone controls as they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Floyd Rosenbomb Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 Some of the newer strats come with the grease bucket mod, which in addition to being great, also gives us some options on the treble pickup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 Well....a les Paul with 2 volume controls that effect both pups makes little sense as well. One volume should control the one pup, the other volume should control the OTHER. I've personally seen no need for one control to effect both pups and the other control to effect both pups. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 I have always thought that the strat was a perfect example of a design flaw becoming industry standard.The lack of a tone on the bridge being the first of many. The semi floating bridge that never stayed in tune, the 3 way switch that was standard, that everyone modified, and that modified switch was finally put on as standard some 25 years later.Design flaws that somehow worked. Edison would have been proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 Some of the controls in other vintage fenders were a bit strange too. The Vintage Jag hadPickup Switching: 2-On/Off Switches, one for each pickup, "Lead" Circuit: 2-Position Tone Switch, Volume, Tone,"Rhythm" Circuit: Volume, Tone, Circuit Selector Switch. The 66 Jazz master had similar wiring schemes with series parallel and the Vintage Mustang had a switch where you could bypass your controls, volume only or Volume and tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 Well....a les Paul with 2 volume controls that effect both pups makes little sense as well. One volume should control the one pup, the other volume should control the OTHER. I've personally seen no need for one control to effect both pups and the other control to effect both pups. Weird. I disagree. I find the interaction between the two volume controls in the middle position on a LP or ES to be where the magic is. A strat with a five-way has five distinct sound whereas blending the two pickups on a Gibson provides a much wider variety of tones. A Gibson type of setup can be wired so the volume control for one pickup does not turn off the other pickup but that changes the way the volume control affects the load on the pickup. To my ear, this extra load on the pickup muddies the sound enough that I don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 I have always thought that the strat was a perfect example of a design flaw becoming industry standard. The lack of a tone on the bridge being the first of many. The semi floating bridge that never stayed in tune, the 3 way switch that was standard, that everyone modified, and that modified switch was finally put on as standard some 25 years later. Design flaws that somehow worked. Edison would have been proud. where were you sixty years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 My first electric was a Strat copy and I didn't get it either until I read a Fender Strat manual. Then I understood what was supposed to be going on. Mind, I didn't agree but.... In the end, I think it's the difference between Strat guys (sorry, ladies) and non-Strat guys. I've since learned that I'm in the non-Strat camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Preacher Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yup, personally I dig the master volume-master tone-blender setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 18, 2015 Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yup, personally I dig the master volume-master tone-blender setup. I like that idea too because, once you get your blend, you can turn it up or down without changing it. I have, however, become used to the two volume, two tone setup for dual humbuckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlamoJoe Posted August 18, 2015 Author Members Share Posted August 18, 2015 Well thank you! That makes sense now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted August 19, 2015 Members Share Posted August 19, 2015 Two or more sides to every story I suppose.I asked an honest question. Obviously, you do not have an answer for it. Thank you for your opinion however. Hi I missed this. I jump the middle to the bridge so there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaleH Posted August 19, 2015 Members Share Posted August 19, 2015 Strats only had a 3 way switch. neck, middle or bridge take your pick. All you could buy was nickel strings and low watt amps. Guess you didn't need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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