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Intonation Setup... any pointers?


steve_man

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Ok, let's talk about adjusting your neck first, then setting your action BEFORE setting your intonation.

Make sure the neck straight, with a tiny bit of relief around the 7-12th fret. (Downward bend) A little is considered normal.

Next, set up your action to what you feel is comfortable, with no buzzing or fretting out.

Now we can adjust your intonation.

Tune the string. Hit the 12th fret harmonic, then finger the 12th fret. If the tuner says it's sharp, turn the intonation saddle on the bridge so that the saddle pulls back towards the bottom of the bridge. Retune, then repeat. If it's flat, turn the screw to where the saddle moves up to the neck. tune, then repeat.

 

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. . . Tune the string. Hit the 12th fret harmonic' date=' then finger the 12th fret. If the tuner says it's sharp, turn the intonation saddle on the bridge so that the saddle pulls back towards the bottom of the bridge. Retune, then repeat. If it's flat, turn the screw to where the saddle moves up to the neck. tune, then repeat.[/quote']

A tiny bit of clarification: Compare the note at the 12th fret with the 12th fret harmonic. They should match. If the harmonic is flat or sharp, it means the bass is out of tune. The idea is to adjust the fretted note to the harmonic. You'll need a good, precise tuner. I use a Wittner that has an analog dial. It's not a fancy strobe tuner but it's accurate enough for me. Not trying to be a jerk but the way badpenguin phrased it bothered me a bit and I thought it might be confusing. If it's not, sorry. I'm not trying to insult anyone's intelligence.

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Good advice all, I'll only empathize the importance of doing things in the proper order. Fix any issues before you start - probably not an issue with a bass but neck angle, hydration, all that stuff will affect your setup. Set the relief first, it will affect action but is not the way to adjust the action. Nut height is next, followed by bridge height. Lowering the action will affect the intonation so do it first. Lastly is the actual adjustment of the saddles so that the open string, harmonic and fretted 12 are all as close as possible.

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Assuming that the OP has sourced multiple guides online re: "How To," here's the advice I'd give:

 

* Re: attack vs. decay of note, I disagree completely with the post above -- you should set the intonation against the decay, not the attack, as the attack will always be a bit sharper (we do agree that decay is flatter than the attack). In reality, there's no reason to have a war over this -- you can read up on it, and make a decision. I could see where someone who shreds might want to focus on the attack, and those who play at slower tempos would use decay. You can make a choice. Either way, though, it DOES make a difference. In deference to Koiwoi, attack is used more frequently, but I think it sounds bad and is not quite as accurate.

 

* Don't take shortcuts. You must have the bass in tune to work on the intonation; that is because the tension on all of the strings will impact the relief of the neck, which impacts the intonation (esp. on a bass). Further, you may need to really loosen the strings to adjust the saddles - keep loosening, re-turning, etc. Taking shortcuts often results in frustration.

 

* Think through the rest of the set up first. This includes TR adjustment / relief, string gauge, and saddle height. Shifting any of those will have an impact on intonation. So get them done first.

 

* Make a decision as to how refined you're going to get. You can go nuts with a strobe tuner and/or oscilloscope and spend eons on intonation. You can also use a Snark and say 'close enough for punk rock and government work' and do four strings in about three minutes. My advice is to tell yourself that you'll spend 'x' minutes (maybe 15-20) this time around, and look for improvements. The reason for this is that setting intonation should involve training your ear and learning, and like many other things with guitars, you'll develop a personal approach to it. You can wind up wasting a lot of time duplicating someone else's standards and methods.

 

* Use the right tools. Eyeglass screwdrivers, etc., are a huge help. This is about avoiding your frustration, not safeguarding your guitar. However, if you're on the clumsy side, or working a '59 Les Paul, you may want to protect the guitar's surface as you mess around with sharp screwdrivers near the finish.

 

* If the action is fairly high at the 12th fret (what kind of bass is it?), your 'fretted' note is not going to be an 'honest' note. This is a roundabout way of letting you know that from a mathematical perspective, and aside from all the geekdom that uses strobe tuners to 'set perfect intonation,' all intonations are compromises. Which is fine - over time, you'll figure it out and your ear will, too.

 

* The bit about the ear training - you should be working towards using a tuner to get close (in matching the harmonic to the fretted note), but ultimately doing the final adjustment by ear, and checking for accuracy with technology. For this reason, do not set intonation when your ears are fatigued (after a jam session). Do it when your hearing is fresh.

 

Adding edit: use the neck pickup, roll back the tone.

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Good link to esoterica regarding intonation compromises, attack vs. decay, and etc.:

 

https://fretmechanic.wordpress.com/intonation/

 

I read through that. There's a few key few points missed but its good overall.

 

As far as a string twanging sharp, it really depends on the tuner you're using. My strobe tuber reacts very quickly and you definitely see the sharp string ( especially if the tension isn't ideal which is another can or worms) If you intonate strings that don't have ideal tension you can have all kinds of erratic behavior and false readings but assuming the string tension, height and relief are right, then you may get some spikes on a fast meter.

 

Other tuners like the Polytune I just bought completely ignores that attack spikes. It actually surprised me because I own at least a dozen from rack tuners to tuners built into effects units. The Polytune is the first that doesn't show spikes when you dig in hard. I have at least a dozen others that can show the spike before leveling out.

 

Not sure what they did to filter that. Maybe they have a compressor to sustain the note and limit the dynamics or maybe they roll off allot of the treble and focus on the fundamental note. The meter does have a slow response too so it doesn't wig out with small oscillations or overtones.

 

By ear, using your finger to create a harmonic at the 12th fret eliminates the sharp spike. You often get a very steady meter reading too.

 

One thing allot of people neglect to mention, is the old fashioned way of tuning. It's actually very accurate for guitars and also exposes many setup flaws when tuning. I still use it with the aid of a tuner to check the open strings. I then take the Low E at the 5th fret to check the next open string, same thing on the A, D, then you drop to the 4th fret on the G and 5th on the B.

 

Then you can work back down with the 7th fret to match the next lower string open.

 

I do those checks at the 5th and 7th frets as well as the octave above 17th and 19th frets comparing the fretted notes to the open strings. You commonly get some notes that are sharp in the 5th and 7th positions due to neck relief. From there you can eak things slightly to minimize just how sharp.

 

Fret wear is probably the biggest intonation killer. That and having the relief and height improperly set for the string types you use. I don't do allot of guessing on my raw setups. I use the manufacturers specs and get it as close as possible to those first. Then if the instruments needs fine tweaking its not usually much. I do most of my "fine tuning" when I'm actually playing along to music I know is in tune.

 

I may set up a drum bass loop in several different keys and play along to them. The Keys of E, A D, G and B will usually cover most of your octaves and harmonic 5ths and 7ths. I may only need to do a couple of tweaks after that and allot of that has to do with the finger pressures I use under playing conditions.

 

Sometimes its just a little compromise to get most of the notes on the neck right. Having the drums and bass going help keep it in perspective using your ears. There's something to do with hearing the notes with white noise going that often helps in the comparison, especially if you have the guitar set for driven lead tones.

 

Another cool tool that can help is using a harmonizer on the guitar. When the intonation is off, the string beating is highly noticeable. Setting the harmonizer for an octave up with some drive on the guitar, you immediately hear what the octave should be and you simply compare the open to octave that way.

 

I like using a keyboard or tone generator. Its very easy to check octaves by ear that way. I'd take an electronic keyboard and wedge the keys down with a piece of folded paper to match and open string and octave. If the guitar strings open or 12th is off, you'll hear the string beating easily enough. Then you just have to figure out whether its flat or sharp.

 

I do all six starting with the low and working up. The high strings affect the relief less so "ending on a high note" usually means better results. I usually work them through several times starting from low to high till no more adjustments can be detected.

 

Then I'll play the hell out of it bending strings and all and go back and check them all again, often tomes finding s string needs a little more. After that I'm usually done for that set of strings and I don't mess with it until the next set of strings.

 

**** One little trick that helps. When you have everything set right and tuned to pitch, press the strings down just in front of the nut and at the string saddles. Fresh strings often bow up a little at both of those points due to the string wanting to remain straight. Pressing down with a bend or two straightness the string up and eliminates allot of erratic behavior and over compensation with the saddles. Afterwards double check your intonation one more time. You may see it change a few cents.

.

There's another to look out for too. It's something I do as part of my string change ritual. After I install the strings I slacken them enough so I can pull the string towards the ball end and let it "untwist" end to end. This makes a big difference with thicker strings. If you have a string that doesn't want to intonate, check this. I've had it happen enough times to include it as a procedure. String Buzz, False Intonation readings with all that additional tension twisted up in the string all adds up. You can even hear it in pickups with weird string sustains or dead notes.

 

Bass guitar especially shouldn't have any twist to the string. You can feel it playing with your fingers and getting intonation right may not be possible. Next time you install strings try it. Give the strings an inch or two slack and allow the ball end to turn and unwind. You'll notice the strings not only sustain more evenly but they feel better playing.

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. . . Lastly is the actual adjustment of the saddles so that the open string' date=' harmonic and fretted 12 are all as close as possible.[/quote']

By definition, the open string and harmonic will be in tune with one another. Therefore, if the fretted note is in tune with the harmonic that's all you need to know because it will automatically be in tune with the open string.

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By definition, the open string and harmonic will be in tune with one another. Therefore, if the fretted note is in tune with the harmonic that's all you need to know because it will automatically be in tune with the open string.

 

Yes, but I find it slightly easier to tune the open string making sure it reads 0 cents, then simply fret the 12th fret and check that. If I make any adjustment then the open string will be off, retune that, check again.

 

If I'm doing it by ear I use the harmonic, but if I'm using a tuner then I (usually) don't. (and I always use a tuner to make any adjustments because I'm pretty sure my ears can't tell 5 cents of difference)

 

Of course with a bass there is a possibility that it is fretless - then wat'cha going to do?

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Yes, but I find it slightly easier to tune the open string making sure it reads 0 cents, then simply fret the 12th fret and check that. . . .

 

. . . Of course with a bass there is a possibility that it is fretless - then wat'cha going to do?

Sure, that works with a guitar. But most tuners--unless they're very good--have an easier time tuning a bass with harmonics. If the harmonic is off, the fundamental is off and vice versa. I just about always tune a bass using harmonics. As for a fretless bass, some have lines on the fretboard but not all do. How in the heck do you set the intonation for something with no frets? Do you simply hold down the string at "looks about right" and take it from there? Never having played anything that didn't have frets, I'd guess there's a fair amount of slop involved. Is there such a thing as "intonation" on such a beast?

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The problem I have with using the harmonic is that it behaves VERY differently to a big fat wobbly open string' date=' so you don't get that initial pitch swell. I never use harmonics for tuning.[/quote']

And if you need/want that "initial pitch swell" (i.e., tuning to the attack) you probably shouldn't use harmonics. I simply want an instrument that's in tune and correctly intonated and I find harmonics work well for me.

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* The pitch swell is not that big a deal -- if you're including it in your thinking. Big fat wobbly open strings are .... well, fundamentally not ideal reference points for intonation. And therein lies a key point that I believe is often overlooked: there really is no such thing as "perfect intonation," it's really just 'getting close' and 'making compromises.' In the real world, that means that you are making choices and experience matters. Newbs can't start soon enough to build up that databank.

 

* Having said all that, 'getting close' is the point of the fine tutorial on Fender.com, and I think their set up guide is a fantastic entry point for those starting out.

 

* Deep - isn't the 12th fret the midpoint on the string? So I guess (and am I ever guessing here) that intoning a fretless instrument would involve getting the midpoint to match the harmonic ... huh. (scratching head). So .... does one try to line up all the 'right' notes, or ... yeesh. I need to go sit in a cave and meditate on this.

 

As for using harmonics all over the fretboard, I was taught to tune by listening for the oscilation between matching adjacent harmonics, e.g., the harmonic on the 5th fret of the 6th string, vs. the harmonic on the 7th fret of the 5th string. The oscillations slow as they approach one another in pitch - easy to adjust with a decent tuner. No one else?

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. . . * Deep - isn't the 12th fret the midpoint on the string? So I guess (and am I ever guessing here) that intoning a fretless instrument would involve getting the midpoint to match the harmonic ... huh. (scratching head). So .... does one try to line up all the 'right' notes, or ... yeesh. I need to go sit in a cave and meditate on this.

 

As for using harmonics all over the fretboard, I was taught to tune by listening for the oscilation between matching adjacent harmonics, e.g., the harmonic on the 5th fret of the 6th string, vs. the harmonic on the 7th fret of the 5th string. The oscillations slow as they approach one another in pitch - easy to adjust with a decent tuner. No one else?

The point I was making with a fretless bass is that there are variations of pitch depending on where you press down on the string since there are no frets to help eliminate slop from poor positioning. So you'd end up intonating such an instrument based on the way you actually play and how sloppy you are (i.e., if you're off 1/4" from where you ought to be pressing down at the octave mark you'll need to move the saddle about 1/2" to get a true octave).

 

In regard to "using harmonics all over the fretboard," I use the 12th and 5th fret (2nd and 4th) harmonics all the time because they're easier for most tuners to detect, the 7th fret (3rd) harmonic less frequently ever since I got my first electronic tuner. I still use the 5th/7th technique to rough in tuning on a bass (and if my tuner is misbehaving it's the best way to get the low E at least close). If I have one string that's in tune, I can judge a major third pretty well and rough in the rest but I still like to use a tuner to get it right since I lack perfect pitch.

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Not just using harmonics all over the fretboard - but the oscillations? This is most-useful when you (let's be honest) don't have to have perfect pitch, but a bunch of guys wailing on their axes need to tune to one another, quickly.

 

As for the fretless - I know what you meant. I'm thinking "geez, if you can alter the length of the string, and choose where you press down ... maybe you aim to create a theoretical fret, in other words, align all the correctly intonated frettings for the 12th position?" This makes my brain hurt.

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