Double-Top Archop

[gardo]

A construction technique I never knew of. . It does have a neck pickup so it is an electric guitar

 

[video=youtube_share;evWjUvVjtNs]

[Freeman Keller]

Thanks for that link - I love watching people who really know what they are doing do it.

 

Double tops have become somewhat popular with classical guitars but hasn't caught on with steel string builders much. The idea is different than a laminated top - the Nomex filler maintains some air spacing between the plates. It makes a very strong, but still lightweight and flexible top - ideally suited for an archtop (or classical).

 

One big problem with the whole method is that you need a vacuum bagging table and the molds to create the dome.

 

Many archtops do have a neck pickup, does that make them an "electric" guitar?

[guitarcapo]

The sound is a tad too bright for me but that might be my lame speakers. I guess that would be a positive for the classical guitar where the luthier is always struggling to get that bright crystal high end to the nylon strings. I think with steel strings, it's actually the opposite. Trying to get those bottom strings to have the cello sound that is easier to achieve on a classical guitar.

 

It's definitely not a sound I would associate with jazz guitar. It sounds more like a steel string flat top.

 

I'd like to try something like this on a classical build some day, but with a different adhesive than epoxy. Something with less damping like LMI white glue.

 

Edit: I guess they don't make LMI white glue any more. Hide glue would be great but it might fail in this application with heat and humidity.

Cyanoacrylate dampens less and it's stronger+lighter in weight than epoxy but this might be a nightmare to pull off. Perhaps a slow drying type?

[gardo]

One big problem with the whole method is that you need a vacuum bagging table and the molds to create the dome.

 

That is a huge problem but I love to see how it's done

[gardo]

The sound is a tad too bright for me but that might be my lame speakers. I guess that would be a positive for the classical guitar where the luthier is always struggling to get that bright crystal high end to the nylon strings. I think with steel strings, it's actually the opposite. Trying to get those bottom strings to have the cello sound that is easier to achieve on a classical guitar.

 

It's definitely not a sound I would associate with jazz guitar. It sounds more like a steel string flat top.

 

I'd like to try something like this on a classical build some day, but with a different adhesive than epoxy. Something with less damping like LMI white glue.

 

Edit: I guess they don't make LMI white glue any more. Hide glue would be great but it might fail in this application with heat and humidity.

Cyanoacrylate dampens less and it's stronger+lighter in weight than epoxy but this might be a nightmare to pull off. Perhaps a slow drying type?

 

It's not a sound I would normally go after but I'd like to see if it leads anywhere.

[Freeman Keller]

Whether you like the sound or not, Andersen guitars sell in the 5-10K range so someone must think they are OK

[gardo]

Whether you like the sound or not' date=' Anderson guitars sell in the 5-10K range so someone must think they are OK[/quote']

 

I did check out his website which is a real art gallery.He does everything himself one guitar at a time and builds something like twelve a year.

http://www.andersenguitars.com/

[Grant Harding]

Andersons aren't nearly that expensive. That's more like Fender and Gibson custom shop prices.

[Grant Harding]

Oh, Andersen! Nevermind...

[guitarcapo]

This reminds me of the direction Jimmy D'Aquisto went with his guitars over time. The archtop acoustic guitar was originally designed to comp out chords and provide back-up in an acoustic band setting.... but by the late 60's and early 70's a "jazz guitar" was more for soloing with amplification and recording. People's tastes in music had shifted as well and "jazz" was making way for fusion and alternative ethnic sounds. D'Aquisto opened up the sound of his guitars to make them more versatile to reach these players instead of just leaving the design alone based on tradition. His guitars started sounding different, but he made no apologies for redesigning the guitar.

 

 

Another issue I might have with a guitar built this way is that it might not age the same way over time like a guitar with a solid top might.

It does seem to enhance the high end by being a lighter, stronger top, but I'd wonder how it would respond to humidity and aging changes over time. And there might be more reliable ways to make a guitar brighter sounding.

[Phil O'Keefe]

That was really interesting!

[6down1togo]

To my ears the notes lacked clarity and focus. It sounded lust like an Ovation Custom Balladeer I used to have.

[Mr Temporary]

 

One big problem with the whole method is that you need a vacuum bagging table and the molds to create the dome.

 

 

Neither is as much of an obstacle as you might guess. I've made a vacuum press using the Joe Woodworker kit driven by an air compressor, and there's nothing about it that the average guitar maker couldn't easily do. I use it for braces, lamination of parts, etc. Not that expensive, either. As for the mold, the hardest part is building and finishing the plug, which is also within the skillset of most guitar makers.

 

My problems with the doubletop concept are the waste of two top sets to make one top, and the whole epoxy application process doesn't appeal to me at all. I'd rather go in the direction of laminated wood tops with carbon fiber using vacuum infusion, and I've got some drawings started for just such a project.