Gibson vs Epiphone Les Paul

[MesaMonster]

For years, I have always wanted a Les Paul but just never had enough money for one for the family always came first. Lately, I have been seeing more endorsements for Epiphone Les Pauls. How do they compare to a Gibson Les Paul aside from some of the obvious things. Do they play just as well? Have the same tone? I have an Ibanez AR-20 which is supposed to be similar to a Les Paul. It is nice and beefy, good neck but the pickups are not the best. It is a double cut away. I plan to put in Seymour Duncan P-Rails for lots of tonal choices.

 

Is it worth trying out some Epi's? My birthday is coming up and I am looking for a new guitar like a Les Paul.

 

Thx

[DeepEnd]

Never heard of an AR-20. Are you sure it's not an AR200? Personally, I'd be inclined to wait until you replace the pickups in your Ibanez. You may find your GAS sated, at least for now. I can't speak for the difference between the Gibson and Epiphone but it couldn't hurt to play an Epiphone LP and see what you think. You might also want to check out this thread: http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-41/31436349-what-are-some-high-quality-non-gibson-les-paul-sounding-guitars.

[Chordite]

Plenty of youtube "vs" vids. Go for the Blind test ones. There is a tone difference

This one should help you decide

 

[video=youtube_share;KO2sBMbUgfo]

 

The answer is on a separate vid and he leaves you to judge

[knotty]

If you really covet a Gibson LP you wont be happy until you have an actual Gibson LP.

[MesaMonster]

My bad. It is an AR200 in wine red. It is an original. I think from the 80s.

[Bucksstudent]

I've owned Gibsons, I've kept my Epiphones. Sometimes I make bad remarks about Gibsons, and they have bad guitars out there just like Fender or any brand, but a good guitar is a good guitar. I was like a little kid in a candy shop at my uncle's house last weekend. I still want a Firebird like his.

 

That being said, I would not trade my Epiphone Les Paul Custom, Epiphone Casino Coupe, or Epiphone S800 for anything. They are quality guitars with quality sounds. I've played my Custom against Gibsons, and it wins for me.

 

However, there are differences in the two instruments. You're getting a Les Paul when you buy the Epiphone, but it's not the same as the Gibson, which is something that should be obvious given that there's tons of information on said differences out there. Just Google them. That doesn't mean that Epis are inferior, but you'll be hard pressed to find an Epi that's superior. But, never blind buy a Gibson online. Go to a store, try them out, buy the model that speaks to you at the shop. For that kind of money, you're going to want to make sure it's quality through and through. With an Epi, you have a stable platform for improvement for less than a grand, but a Gibson is supposed to be the pristine, top of the line guitar. Unfortunately, they are not produced as such, and the Gibson name is not a mark of quality. With that in mind, if you have the money, find the right one, buy a Gibson.

 

But there's no shame in Epiphone unless you're in Junior High school.

[billybilly]

Go to Soundcreation's post below

[Temple of Light]

You seem like someone who has a lot of experience playing, at least from me eyeing your gearlist. So do yourself a favor and forget all the name brand bullsh!t for a minute and design your Les Paul the way YOU want it. Right down to the machines, pickups, bridge, tailpiece, controls and wiring...I've spent thousands and thousands on my collection, yet very few of my guitars are stock, I probably have too many. Still, if you can design a guitar that will give you the options and relative tones and capabilities of 3 different axes, you'll be way ahead.

Knowing a good guitar tech is worth five guitars, and if you know exactly what you want it's way more satisfying to make what you want than, say, trying to buy it. If I was doing all this again {God help me, GAS!}

I'd do something like this. Warmouth or Epiphone body, Bigsby tailpiece, Mini humbucker {neck} W.L.H. Seymour Duncan {neck} in the middle, W.L.H. {bridge} in the bridge position, Coil tapping pots, series/parallel wiring, Sperzel locking tuners, Fender LSR nut, A Warmouth Les Paul headstock, 24 fret extended fingerboard, 24 3/4 scale, Maple C shaped, 1/8" shaved neck, Rosewood fretboard

Abalone dot position markers, you get the idea. This guitar would have the tonal versatility of at least three different types of guitars and would be extremely well suited for blues, jazz and rock and all it's various tentacles.You could build this for less than half of the current midrange of any of Gibson's lineup, and come away with a better, more personalized instrument that will last you a lifetime, and also be more than the sum of it's parts. PM me if your serious, and I can refer to you a guitar tech that can take care of business for you.

 

 

[badpenguin]

I've had the Gibson Pauls, and I have had clones. I have my L6s, and my 2 clones still. (Manoman, and a 73 Ibanez 2398) The Manoman, is more Gibson than Gibson, and the Ibbby, is well, it's own beasty. The choice is yours, play them, and decide what is best for you.

[Phil O'Keefe]

I've got a pretty darned good Epiphone Les Paul. I recently reviewed a Gibson Les Paul Standard, and was able to play them side by side to compare them. Given a choice, I know which of the two I'd rather own, and it's not even close. Were it not for the financial aspect, I'd take the Gibson. YMMV.

[soundcreation]

my 20 cents.

 

I believe Gibson's manufacturing is very inconsistent, but they do use higher quality wood and better finishes.

 

Epiphones are remarkably consistent, but they use cheaper woods and thick poly finishes which I think make a big difference.

 

So what ends up happening is that a lot of Gibson's sound much more average than they should which makes them sound similar to a lot of epiphones. Most epiphones I've played sound OK.....nice guitars for the money kind of thing. But in my experience I've never picked up an epiphone that had that "it" factor. Where notes just seem to jump off the guitar and ring and chime with that beautiful "fullness". I do believe there are epiphones out there that have it, but you gotta dig and be patient. Not enough Gibson's have that "it" factor either for the money they charge. But they do at a higher rate than epiphone. But even with Gibson I think you really have to be patient and play a lot of them because there is such inconsistency.

 

A lot of people say they want a great Gibson. Which I think most would agree is that nice rounded tone. No overly dominant highs or booming lows. But I think a lot of people let their eyes make the decision and not the ears. If you really want the best Les Paul possible you should go to a store or 3 and play every single Les Paul you can find. Use your ears and find that one with the factors I've mentioned. If you can't hear those things then take someone who can. If it so happens that the best Gibson is a boring looking studio, with solid color or whatever....then that's the one you should get. If it happens to be a historic then so be it. Get out the credit card.

 

Personally I think the Japanese make the most consistent Les Pauls in the world. Whether is the 80's high end Greco's or Tokai's etc...or newer brands like Bacchus or Navigator. I think they make a better gibson than gibson. There consistency is remarkable, and so many more of them seem to have that "it" factor. So I choose them. It does require some blind faith though as most are only available from japan and can't be played before hand.

[mbengs1]

get the epiphone les paul custom. they sound better than the standard. the standard i believe has alder/mahogany body while the custom has a pure mahogany body. am i wrong? but i suggest to just get a gibson. its worth it.

[wankdeplank]

My take is not the sterilized PC version so please bear that in mind. It's a trade-off IMO. With today's Epiphone Standard or better you will get a guitar that plays great with low action, stays in tune, performs well with good fretwork. This is a bargain workhorse that is durable and should wear well. Downside is that it doesn't have the same brilliant sparkle to the sound as an average Gibson would - less noticeable as you ramp up the gain IMO.

With Gibson, some say that you pay for what you get, i.e., the more expensive the model, the better the guitar. That has not always been the case, but appears to be moreso today. Still at any pricepoint, the inherent problems with Gibson as I see it, are the tuning issues (Kluson style tulip tuners primary culprit IMO) and the nitro lacquer used causes static issues. I made the mistake of putting boutique open coil pickups in mine which exacerbated the problem, but even after the switch back and shielding all cavity covers, I still get phantom pops and crackles. My nitro covered Hamers do not have this issue.

Aside from these things, I prefer the broader string spacing at the nut provided on Gibsons. Epis seem a bit cramped to my hand. And I prefer the rich full sound of a Gibson; Epis seem more muffled to my ears (though I haven't had the opportunity to try an Elitist or other premium models).

[Bucksstudent]

get the epiphone les paul custom. they sound better than the standard. the standard i believe has alder/mahogany body while the custom has a pure mahogany body. am i wrong? but i suggest to just get a gibson. its worth it.

 

...no. Most Les Pauls are mahogany with a maple cap. I've never heard of a Les Paul with alder. The Epiphone Custom has mahogany with a maple cap. The difference is in the grade of wood and number of pieces. The other major factor is the quality of pickups.

 

I don't understand why you suggest to get the Custom and then directly contradict your statement by telling the OP to just get a Gibson because "it's worth it."

 

I've never picked up a Les Paul and said, "Hmm, this is worth two-grand." Of course, now the Standard and other models are even more this year. I remember reading a forum post that said "Epiphone is no longer the poor-man's Gibson. It's just for players who can't afford Gibson's prices." We all have different opinions and can likely hark on about them at length, but I think we're all at least making the effort to support our claims.

 

Being able to buy a Gibson, new or used, is completely dependent on what the consumer can afford and what they're looking for. If they just want a Les Paul tone and look at an affordable price, it's Epiphone all day. If they want an investment, Gibson name on the headstock, made in U.S.A. instrument, and possibly better tone and look, then buy the Gibson. I would love a Gibson Les Paul, but I'd like one that gave me reason to put down my Epiphone.

[soundcreation]

 

...no. Most Les Pauls are mahogany with a maple cap. I've never heard of a Les Paul with alder. The Epiphone Custom has mahogany with a maple cap. The difference is in the grade of wood and number of pieces. The other major factor is the quality of pickups.

 

I don't understand why you suggest to get the Custom and then directly contradict your statement by telling the OP to just get a Gibson because "it's worth it."

 

I've never picked up a Les Paul and said, "Hmm, this is worth two-grand." Of course, now the Standard and other models are even more this year. I remember reading a forum post that said "Epiphone is no longer the poor-man's Gibson. It's just for players who can't afford Gibson's prices." We all have different opinions and can likely hark on about them at length, but I think we're all at least making the effort to support our claims.

 

Being able to buy a Gibson, new or used, is completely dependent on what the consumer can afford and what they're looking for. If they just want a Les Paul tone and look at an affordable price, it's Epiphone all day. If they want an investment, Gibson name on the headstock, made in U.S.A. instrument, and possibly better tone and look, then buy the Gibson. I would love a Gibson Les Paul, but I'd like one that gave me reason to put down my Epiphone.

 

Kind of depends on how you look at it though.

 

Back in 1959 a Les Paul cost 265 bucks. About 300 if you wanted a case. Plug that into an inflation calculator and you get about 2500 bucks. So even if Gibson were pricing realistically for what they sell that's still considered a lot of money by you since you commented and by budget minded guitarists into imports. But for an instrument made by people who get a decent wage and have some semblance of good working conditions that's probably a fair price for a nice instrument. Of course that opens a whole other debate, but I'll just leave it by saying a Gibson has always been "a lot of money". It's just now, they've taken it to ridiculous levels.

 

One of the main reasons I don't support Gibson is I don't like their pricing policy. They copied Chivas...you know the scotch makers......who started the trend of purposely charging WAY more than the product was worth to give it exclusivity. You can read about it here...

 

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7569473_chivas-regal-effect.html

 

So now....in order to get the same type of specs you would get in 1959, you know, a solid piece of light but fully solid mahogany with a good neck joint and on and on...... you have to pay upwards of 6 grand. This crazy one is almost 9.

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LPR9TVLBNH

 

Now...I'm willing to cut Gibson a bit of slack in some regards. The wood is just not the same these days as we've abused the earth to death. So chambered bodies etc.....are a practical solution for meeting manufacturing quotas and still providing a good guitar. But those USA gibsons should be CHEAPER. 1500 bucks. And your historics should be reasonably priced at 3 grand or so.

 

But even at the low end you're paying almost 3 times as much as it really should cost. Sorry...but that's just greed.

 

Especially when I could order this out of Japan

 

http://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop18/DS02831102/

 

for 3500 bucks (3700 shipped easy) and get a guitar that is built to 59 Les Paul specs in every single way a custom shop gibson is (and probably has a nitro finish that would embarrass gibson) for way way less? Yes it's still a bit "over priced" as well....that's not anywhere near cheap either. But the quality is second to NONE. Guarantee you that virtually EVERY navigator that makes it to a guitar store in Japan has that "it" factor I mentioned in my other post.

 

In the end...the difference is in corporate philosophy. ESP Japan (the owners of Navigator) and virtually every other japanese brand believe that quality of your product is the first priority and that having that everything else will take care of itself. Gibson cares more about "brand image" and "manufacturing efficiency" than building the very best product they possibly can. That's just obvious. Of course they are way better than the Norlin era...they did recognize the importance of SOME quality control.

 

I simply prefer to support companies that put quality first and don't try to suck me into their "lifestyle" marketing and sell me jeans, tshirts and key chains to further their "brand extension".

 

 

[AJ6stringsting]

I used to own a Greco Les Paul Custom, as good , if not better than my 1974 Gibson LPC.

[AJ6stringsting]

I modded out a 2007 Epi LPC with a Schaller tailpiece with fine tuners, Dragon Fire Gold covered Alnico Screamers pickups ( neck 8.6k ohms, bridge 16.9k ohms), recently added a brass nut and very soon adding some locking tuners. I really think that I got a freak of nature Epi Les Paul Custom, the guitar was almost as good as my 1974 Gibby LPC ( has a Dimarzio Evo in the bridge ( 13.84kohms) , neck, S.Duncan Screamin' Demon ( 10.10k ohms ) before the modification.

With my mods on my Epi LPC, I find myself loving them equally.

[MesaMonster]

Wow, thank you for all the great advice. As one with not a huge expense account, I do have to watch my dollars and get the most bang for the buck. The majority of my collection has been the middle line of guitars. As much as I would love to have a real LP, it is out of my budget. I would like to at least have one guitar that of high quality and tone would save for one. But, I don't want to put that much effort into saving if I am going to be disappointed. I have a friend who has an LP in tobacco burst. It is beautiful and plays so nice. You can see the difference in quality. Anyway, thank you again for the info.

[Dendy Jarrett]

selbertdr: If you note the banner ad for the Gibson 100 celebration, it states that if you buy a Les Paul today (June 9th) and submit proof of purchase, and a 300 word essay on why you like the guitar, you have a 1 in 10 chance of getting all of your money back. Those are pretty good odds!

 

D

 

Here is the link:

http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Contests/2015/Les-Paul-100th-Birthday-Bash-Contest.aspx

[WRGKMC]

I haven't owned an EPI LP, but I've owned several Gibson LP's (currently have a 35th anniversary model). I've owned several other styles of EPI's including the Dot I have now. I've also owned a 60's Riviera and an Gibson ES335.

 

The only guitar that came close to matching the quality or a Gibson was the vintage Riviera. They were making EPI's here in the US back then not over seas and the quality difference was like day and night compared to now. I realize Gibson too made some budget versions but you have to compare apples to apples.

 

Other then the couple of showcase models EPI makes to draw in buyers, the EPI line is just a decent budget brand and that's all. They aren't made in the Gibson factories, they don't use the same high quality materials and they don't meet the same high standards. The shapes may look similar but that's about as far as it goes. They aren't the same quality guitars. Anyone thinking an EPI Paul is going to fill the void and meet the same standards as a Gibson, probably hasn't played a Gibson much.

 

There's a reason that price is higher and if you want the top quality workmanship and materials there's only one way to get it. You work your butt off and save your money and you invest in a good one. I worked an entire summer season as a kid to earn enough to buy my first used one. ($350 for a Gold Top Deluxe) It was worth every bit of that effort too.

 

You can get duds with any brand of guitars. I haven't seen many bad Gibson's though. I've seen tons that were abused, lacking maintenance, needing fret work, cracked headstocks, beat up finishes, etc, but none of that constitutes a defective instrument. Its a matter of neglect. In comparison, you may find a much higher number of EPI's that have inherent flaws. I think I tried a half dozen DOT's before I chose the one I have now. Didn't help however because its still began having issues with the top warping up, cheap hardware wearing out and electronics getting flakey. None of that happened in my vintage EPI because the hardware, electronics and build were identical to the Gibson's.

 

If you take them for what they are, a decent budget guitar, the same way as you'd view a Squire as being a decent budget version of a Fender, then you'll do OK with them. Just realize there are much better instruments from dozens of different manufacturers. Its just a matter of finding the one right for you and then paying the price to get it.

[Bucksstudent]

Uhh, no. Squiers are not in the same class as mid-to-high range Epiphones.

 

And anyone who says: "Anyone thinking an EPI Paul is going to fill the void and meet the same standards as a Gibson, probably hasn't played a Gibson much" has already lost the argument in my eyes. That's quite the audacious statement. You don't have to degrade other people's opinions to support your own.

[6down1togo]

I have owned both Epiphone and Gibson. Anyone who says their Epiphone sounds better than or even as good as a Gibson needs to have their hearing checked or does not have the two guitars to comnpare. Also, if all it took was a swap of electronics to make an Epiphone and a Gibson equal, who would ever buy a Gibson?

 

The Epiphone may look like a Gibson and when played through a dirt pedal may sound somewhat like a Gibson, but that is where the similarity ends. Played clean through a good tube amp, the Gibson (even a "bad" one if there is such a thing) hands down makes an Epiphone sound second class. The feel of a Gibson is lively and resonant, the string to string definition and dynamics are like night and day compared to an Epiphone. The notes sustain longer and are just brilliant.

 

I switched from Epiphones (Dot and LP) to a Memphic 335 and a Custom Classic LP and realized very quickly that the playing experience and tone are in a different league.

 

I've heard lots of youtube demos, but played clean with the just the voice of the guitar, there is no comparison. In most of the demos, what they call clean still has lots of overdriven harmonics so you don't hear how quickly the notes decay on an Epiphone. There was a Youtube vid where some nit stood there with his Epiphone all gained up in a feedback loop and claimed the Epiphone had such great sustain. The true test is guitar, amp, cable. If you throw every imaginable effect between the guitar and amp, then an Epiphone may suit you just fine.

 

I thought maybe Epiphone had drastically improved their pickups and ran out and bought an Ultra III LP with the new Pro-buckers. I thought the nanomag acoustic simulation might be fun too. Played A/B with my Gibson Custom Classic, it has that same Epiphone mid-range "honk" and muddy tone as the pickups they replaced. Marginally improved maybe, but still not up to a Gibson pickup.

 

Don't get me wrong, they are nice little guitars for the price, look nice and play well but they do not kill Gibsons like some claim. Even the lowly LP Studio is still a better sounding guitar than an Epiphone.

[soundcreation]

I've heard lots of youtube demos, but played clean with the just the voice of the guitar, there is no comparison. In most of the demos, what they call clean still has lots of overdriven harmonics so you don't hear how quickly the notes decay on an Epiphone. There was a Youtube vid where some nit stood there with his Epiphone all gained up in a feedback loop and claimed the Epiphone had such great sustain. The true test is guitar, amp, cable. If you throw every imaginable effect between the guitar and amp, then an Epiphone may suit you just fine.

 

 

I suggest you watch this video from about 11:25 onward. They are ALL set on the same level going through the same chain. So this is a totally fair comparison.

 

[YOUTUBE]rzM9dvV-VJU[/YOUTUBE]

 

The Epiphone slays the gibsons. Now I'm quite willing to believe that is one of the exceptional exceptions that does make it through every now and again and that doesn't happen very often......but whomever bought that epiphone should be very happy.

 

 

 

[mistersully]

the only epiphone i've played that did it for me is the japanese made casino i own... all the others have just been 'meh' to me

[soundcreation]

the only epiphone i've played that did it for me is the japanese made casino i own... all the others have just been 'meh' to me

 

I totally agree. I've never played one like they have in the Anderton's vid. Like you said....just "meh".....And pretty much every gibson I've played has been better than every epiphone. Some only a little...and some quite obviously.

 

But that vid sort of proves the point I was talking about earlier. You just never know. Gibson's consistency is all over the place. That epiphone was probably the best Les Paul in Andertons up until they sold it. And I bet a lot of people walked right by it to inferior gibsons in the store and bought on factors that weren't about how good it sounded. I suspect the reason they had a quickly chopped edit and didn't show any other notes sustaining was because it DID, and they don't want to make the Gibson's look as average as they are. But you could tell at the end there when they were playing the epiphone that it has that "it" factor.