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Lets build something that looks like an ES-335


Freeman Keller

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I know, some of you are saying "not another stinking build thread".... But hopefully a few will enjoy this little journey.

 

The background

 

Last year I built a couple of guitars and posted build threads. One that got a fair amount of attention was an acoustic that looks like an ES-175 - some of you might remember that one. Shortly after I finished I got PM's from a couple of forumites inquiring as to whether I would consider building a guitar for them. I wrote them each a long reply explaining that this was a pretty bad idea - telling them that I am not a professional, there was no real guarantee of what they would get, there is no "Keller Guitars, Inc" to support them in the future (I'm 70 and when I'm dead I'm dead). One of the forumites sort of disappeared but the other said he understood and would I consider building something for him.

 

He told me what he wanted, but there were a couple of problems with him just going out and buying it (we'll get back to that). By mutual agreement I'm also not going to mention his HC handle right now - that will come out in time. Anyway, what he told me he wanted was an ES-335 built in a certain way. I told him I would do some research.

 

Gibson ES-335's are what they call a "thin body" electric. They are double cutaway, arched top and back, f-holes, and have several unique construction details that make them hard for a home builder like me, the biggest being that their top and backs, while arched, are not made like a normal archtop. Most archtop jazz style guitars, as well as mandolins, violins and lots of other instruments have a solid piece of top wood that is carved inside and out to give it the shape (and the vibrational qualities) desired. I've built a mandolin - they are a heck of a lot of work and I have some appreciation why archtop instruments are frequently in the 5 figures. Gibson, on the other hand, with their ES-125, 175, 335 and who knows what else, makes the tops and backs out of several very thin veneers laminated together in a big hydraulic press - basically they are molded into shape. I've heard of a few independent builder who duplicate this by vacuum bagging the plates but sure ain't something I'm going to do at home.

 

I explained this to the person asking and told him I would keep looking, but basically I put this on the back burner. I found a couple of places that made the laminated plates, mostly what I was seeing was single cutaway hollow jazz guitars, but one of the, Acme Archtops did have the double cut for the style I wanted. I sent some e-mails back and forth, actually bought some ES-335 plans, but life and several other guitars got in the way - the project just seemed like a giant hassle.

 

The a couple of weeks ago I got an e-mail from Acme stating that he was closing his business and selling both his molds and press (would I be interested?) and his inventory. I looked thru the inventory and picked out a nice jazz style single cut, but there weren't any 335's. I commented that if the had one or two I would buy them on speculation. He replied, "I've got two beautiful sets of flamed maple and was going to make 335 pieces out of them". I said "put my name on them".

 

A quick e-mail to the forumite asking if he was still interested, he said he had almost given up on me but yes, he was. Order placed and a few days later I've got this

 

IMG_2389_zpsfkum54x3.jpg

 

Oh, crap, I think I'm committed.

 

The gig

 

I told my "customer" that I would proceed with this and at the point where I had to commit to his special requests then he would be committed to take the guitar. Up to that point I figured I can get rid of it (or keep it for my self). We worked out the details and agreed to move forward. He also agreed to let me post this thread.

 

I want to empathize the incredible trust going on behind this. We've never met, he's never played one of my guitars, either of us could be a complete sham. But I have a good feeling and so its going to happen. I also want to empathize that I'm not trying to drum up business - I'm doing this for a lot of reasons but making money isn't one of them. I hope Phil and the other mods understand this - I am not trying to spam the forum. And please, don't you all be contacting me asking to build you a guitar - I'll just say no.

 

OK, so I'm going to document this build as I've done before. At some point we'll identify the forumite, at some point I'll tell you the special things that he has requested (not skull inlays LOL). When I do that the previous paragraph will make even more sense.

 

The build will take a month or so, plus at least a month for the finish. I've got two other guitars on the workbench right now so progress will be a little sporatic,but I'll post as I go along.

 

The disclaimer

 

I am an amateur guitar builder, I don't like to call myself a luthier (I believe that title is bestowed on you by your peers and to me, with very serious implications). This will look more or less like a Gibson ES-335 but there will be some differences - we'll talk about them as we go along. I purposely will make some visual difference - there are copy rights and patents on several aspects of this (plus I want to make my own identity). I work in a small home shop, much of what I do will be by hand. I realize that there are many other ways to do things.

 

If we're good with this lets get on with it.

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Wow, ok at least a couple things right off the bat:

 

1) I'd be surprised if anybody here has thought "not another stinking build thread", and especially when you are the author. thu.gif

 

2)Knowing that you're 70 both makes sense (with respect to your diverse interests, life experience, and dignified posting style) and also makes everything you build and document more impressive.

 

and 3) You're not a luthier? Whatever. cop.gif

 

Oh, and 4) Let's go! :wave:

:snax:

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Thanks all. A little more background

 

Gibson ES-355

 

The Gibson ES (which stands for Electric Spanish as contrasted with the Electric Hawaiian or lap style) seem to have one thing in common - they are arched topped and backed but the tops are laminated instead of carved like conventional acoustic archtops. ES-125, 150, 175, 250 etc are usually built with simple internal bracing that supports the bridge and pickups. They have dovetail neck joints, usually floating bridges (often ToM) usually tailpieces and standard body depths. P-90 pickups are common - they are intended to be played as electric guitar and sound pretty anemic unplugged.

 

The ES-355 is a different critter. It has a thin body, nominally about 1-3/4 but that seems to vary. It has a big block off wood that extends from the neck into the body about 12 inches, this hunk of wood spans the space between the top and back. They are often called "semi-solid body" or in some cases "semi-hollow body" because the share characteristics of both. The have a Les Paul style long tenon neck joint, usually a ToM bridge and stop tail piece, and most of the time, dual humbuckers. They are iconic guitars and one of the best known 355's is BB King's Lucille (actually the guitar was modified to BB's specs).

 

The top and backs are multiple thin wood veneers with a show face on the outside - they are coated in glue and pressed in a big hydraulic mold under elevated temperature - that forms the shape rather than carving like a normal archtop. That also means that they are almost impossible for a home builder like me to duplicate. However, as I stated earlier, I did manage to find someone who makes them and would sell me a couple of sets - that makes this whole thing possible.

 

I found this picture of the original press used in the Kalamazoo factory back in the '50's

 

tour4.jpg

 

No, I'm not going to build one of those in my garage.

 

Tomorrow maybe we can start building a guitar

 

 

 

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I selected one set of parts to be this guitar and put everything else away. Here's the set

 

IMG_2390_zps87qyxu5v.jpg

 

First thing for any new instrument is to make the tooling. For a solid body that means some router templates, for a hollow body that means a mold to hold everything in position as I glue stuff together. I have a set of plans for an ES-355 clone and the supplier of the top and sides sent me a tracing of the body shape to make the mold. I like 3/4 inch MDF for this kind of thing - it is inexpensive, works easily, lasts pretty well and I can run down to Home Depot and get more when I need it. Glued the tracing on two thicknesses of MDF and cut it out

 

IMG_2373_zpsttjxjvmq.jpg

 

Put the mold together and tried a side in it

 

IMG_2374_zpsehezahu7.jpg

 

The other thing that I need is a couple of cross sectional templates of the top arching - I'll use these to shape the internal bracing. I've got this cool little gizmo that lets me copy curved shapes - its really nice if I want to duplicate a neck. Kind of hard to see but when its pushed against the top it takes on that shape

 

IMG_2392_zpstzzdcxgr.jpg

 

Its only long enough to do half the top but that doesn't matter, I can flip it over for the other side. Transfer this to some 1/4 inch MDF and make two templates

 

IMG_2394_zpsxo8qei4e.jpg

 

Last thing for today is to split one of the sides in half - they are a bit over 3 inches and the 335 is only 1-1/2 so I just band sawed it down the middle (I've now got an extra side - maybe I should order one more top and back). Sides go into the mold and a tail block gets glued in

 

IMG_2388_zpshuxwdicm.jpg

 

The little shims under the mold allow for the bulge of the top and back. More to follow....

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Wow' date=' great. So many times it does seem that the right jigs and molds are the greater part of the battle. Lookin' great! :thu:[/quote']

 

They are. In previous lives I have built racing boats and bicycle frames - I've spent more time building the jigs than the actual item. In the case of a guitar, things have a bad habit of sliding around once you put glue on them - it is really important to hold them perfectly aligned while it cures.

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They are. In previous lives I have built racing boats and bicycle frames - I've spent more time building the jigs than the actual item. In the case of a guitar, things have a bad habit of sliding around once you put glue on them - it is really important to hold them perfectly aligned while it cures.

 

I've worked a few machine shops and something you quickly learn is having the right tooling and the right set-up means everything,

Right on Freeman ,I enjoy seeing the tooling as much as seeing the finished product

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Before I get into the inside of this one, I've got a couple of pictures of how Gibson does it. This is a cut way of the block in the center of the guitar

 

block_and_kerf.jpg

 

the top has been removed, you can see the center block with the stud hole for the tailpiece. There is normally two pieces of kerfed spruce, one on top of the block, one under it that the top and back glue to. The top one has been removed, you can see the bottom one. Here is a picture of the laminated top, then the kerfed (saw cut) spruce, then the center block I assume the purpose of the kerfing is to make it slightly flexible to conform to the inside arch of the top and back

 

59_blond_laminations.jpg

 

The center blocks were usually maple but Gibson also used bass wood.

 

The multiple layers probably make sense for a production assembly line but since I have to carve everything by hand (I keep asking for a cnc for Christmas but it never comes...) I'm going to do it all in one piece.

 

I looked around the shop for a suitable block of wood - got some nice mahogany and some really good spruce, but since Gibson did use bass wood and I've got a hunk, lets use it. I thought I took a couple of pictures of fitting it to the Mickey Mouse ears of the sides - guess not. Here it is glued in place (one long clamp to the head part of the mold). The center block stands proud of the top and bottom plane by 1/4 inch - that's why the shims are under the sides. The little block at the end of the big one is just to hold it stationary - it is only glued in place at the ends of the rim

 

IMG_2396_zpsdzzvsffd.jpg

 

\

I've also glued some kerfing in place around the sides of the guitar. Again, I thought I had taken pictures but I guess not. You all have seen that before - I use mama's clothes pins as little mini clamps.

 

Make note to self to take better and more pictures...,

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Time to go to work on that big old block in the middle of this thing. My favorite chisel (it was my father's) and the medium block plane (my grand father's), plus a little finger plane that is just so cool to work with. Big smoothing plane in the background

 

IMG_2399_zpszeofxwat.jpg

 

The idea is to get the block to fit the two templates that we made earlier and also have them rest on the sides

 

IMG_2404_zpsxkcvnmka.jpg

 

This is pretty much what I've taken off in the rough shaping. Anyone got kid with gerbils that needs lining for their cage?

 

IMG_2401_zpsxdlzlpo8.jpg

 

And check the neck angle (plans show 2 degrees, that's a good starting point)

 

IMG_2403_zpsy63xiwiz.jpg

 

I love this sort of hand shaping - it would be really hard to turn this over to a machine

 

 

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Freeman, the last 2 posts have been absolutely delightful. I've really enjoyed seeing hand planes of all sizes in action for a while, especially after this thread over at the Les Paul forum.

 

I love your technique for matching the center block to the top - that's something I honestly had never thought of.

 

Cheers!

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Freeman' date=' the last 2 posts have been absolutely delightful. I've really enjoyed seeing hand planes of all sizes in action for a while, especially after this thread over at the Les Paul forum.

 

I love your technique for matching the center block to the top - that's something I honestly had never thought of.

 

Cheers!

 

I use hand tools and love the feel of a sharp chisel cutting wood, but I also use a reasonable assortment of power tools. I skimmed that link and frankly I can't imagine building a LP with no power tools - I assume he is cutting the truss rod channel or binding or pickup cavities with a chisel - makes no sense at all (remember that I've built a couple of Lesters). On the other hand I kind of feel like its cheating to buy a premade neck - carving a neck is almost as much fun as carving that center block.

 

You'll get to see a mix of hand and power tools - the kind you would find in a small home shop, which is exactly what I have.

 

You'll also get to see the final fitting of the block to top, but not tonight. Some buddies took me on a long mtn bike ride today and pretty much kicked my ass.

 

 

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Last installment we roughly shaped the center block based on the two cross section templates - to refine that I need to find the high points and bring them down - to do that I put some sanding dust made from some scrap ebony in the center of the top and lightly rubbed the rim and block back and forth on it. Where they are touching the ebony gets rubbed onto the block

 

IMG_2423_zpsgqoriien.jpg

 

Sand and scrape those areas, then do it again, the spots should get larger until finally the entire block gets a light coating of the black dust. Then clean it all up and get ready to glue.

 

Normally I would glue this in my go-bar deck but I didn't have the right length bars and it was turning out to be a real hassle. Decided to do it free hand with just a bunch of clamps

 

IMG_2430_zpsmpp0m9va.jpg

 

IMG_2431_zpsolswai3b.jpg

 

I learned early on that you can never have enough clamps. I also learned that I really like those Irwin quick clamps. Put this away to let the glue dry

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Next day, clamps come off and the joint looks to be perfect. To trim the overhang of the top I could use a plane and sandpaper but the veneer is really thin so I'll use a flush cut bit in my little router. This is the gizmo that I use for cutting binding channels - the router rides up and down on a track and indexes from the edge of the top. There is a little ball bearing on the cutter that sets the depth of the cut into the side (in this case flush)

 

IMG_2433_zpsucrlwsph.jpg

 

A closer shot of the cutter

 

IMG_2432_zpsmvzhjrbu.jpg

 

The tops of "flat top" guitars are actually domed - that means the router would be at an angle if you just put it on the top. An arched top would be ten times worse. For years I tried taping little wedges of wood to the router base - it sorta worked but was pretty sketchy - this thing is so much better. You'll see it a lot more when it comes binding time.

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  • Holy Clamparama, that's a lot of clamps, looks great!
  • Really ingenious use of ebony dust to mate the block to the top. idea.gif

  • I've seen that jig or one like it advertised - your description is the first one that has me intrigued. Is that plywood mounting template the same shape as the body?

 

I use hand tools and love the feel of a sharp chisel cutting wood, but I also use a reasonable assortment of power tools. I skimmed that link and frankly I can't imagine building a LP with no power tools - I assume he is cutting the truss rod channel or binding or pickup cavities with a chisel - makes no sense at all (remember that I've built a couple of Lesters). On the other hand I kind of feel like its cheating to buy a premade neck - carving a neck is almost as much fun as carving that center block.

 

You'll get to see a mix of hand and power tools - the kind you would find in a small home shop, which is exactly what I have.

 

You'll also get to see the final fitting of the block to top, but not tonight. Some buddies took me on a long mtn bike ride today and pretty much kicked my ass.

 

 

Yes, I think the gentleman in the link was building it in his Tokyo apartment ( eek.gif ) and didn't want the noise/ hassle/ mess. I also think he enjoyed the philosophy of it. But yes, a task both intriguing and indicative of madness. lol.gif

 

I'm also happy to know you enjoyed the process of creating that center block - it did look like fun - assuming one knew what he was doing.

 

Nevertheless, I thoroughly enjoy seeing what you use, hand tool or power tool, as well as the methodology. As with so many things, folks don't always take from our lessons those we intend, and frequently those they do take prove to be of more value to them than the ones we feel so essential to our success.

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Nevertheless, I thoroughly enjoy seeing what you use, hand tool or power tool, as well as the methodology. As with so many things, folks don't always take from our lessons those we intend, and frequently those they do take prove to be of more value to them than the ones we feel so essential to our success.

 

Ahh, the zen of tools... To quote Frank Ford (Gryphon Instruments, frets.com) "before I let that cnc drive me down I'll die with a chisel in my hand, lord lord,..."

 

Each time I build something I look back at the last one that I built and think "what would have made that easier/better/cleaner/more accurate...." and then I add one tool to my quiver. I love hand tools, particularly scary sharp cutting tools (some day I need to build a telecaster with just a pocket knife) but some power tools - routers especially just make the job so much easier and better.

 

The binding router thing is a commercial product and the base came with it. It is a pretty generic acoustic guitar shape with three sets of holes for the little brackets that hold the guitar - its very adjustable. I'll try to remember to take a better picture when we get to the binding stage.

 

 

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When I built the 175 I made a template for the f-holes. They were slim and sexy and I figured I'd use the same template here, but I also know that I have to get my fat fingers in the f-holes to do some wiring (I hope you are looking forward to this as much as I am). So I opened the slots on the 175 template a bit and decided it would be just fine. Stuck it on with some double stick carpet tape,

 

IMG_2444_zpsgobaw4y1.jpg

 

but since I don't completely trust the tape I threw a couple of clamps on. Drilled holes thru the ends of the f

 

IMG_2445_zpsbzyjx7lq.jpg

 

I'm using my Dremel with a router base and a 3/32 bit. I let the shank of the bit ride against the template - its pretty sketchy and I try to go very slowly.

 

IMG_2447_zpsg2vlec8x.jpg

 

Route one side, flip it over and do it again

 

IMG_2446_zpshsrvlvgq.jpg

 

Whew

 

IMG_2448_zpsp9rxi9to.jpg

 

After that I need a nice cold adult beverage...

 

 

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