Tried out another Roller Bridge

[WRGKMC]

I got in one of these TOM type roller bridges last night. It was a simple drop in because the Gotoh I was using had the same dimensions.

I did swap the Height adjustment screws because the size of the adjustment wheels were smaller. The threads on the bushings were the same so I was able to leave those in place.

 

 

 

The main reason I replaced it was to maintain tuning. The guitar I put it in has a trapeze tailpiece and strings do have allot of stretch between the bridge and tail after bending strings so they weren't returning to pitch as well as I'd like them to. This symptom is a classic example of strings binding on the bridge saddles (and/or nut)

 

I did make sure the saddles on the Gotoh bridge I had been using were properly cut/smooth and well lubed with graphite, but the problem was still enough to bug me, especially when I record and being off a cent or two is enough to make a difference. It may have something to do with the break away angle I used on this build. The nut on the other hand was as good as its going to get. I use brass nuts and they tend to be self lubricating

 

I replaced a Gotoh bridge on another guitar a few weeks back with a Moserite type roller bridge and its really made a nice difference in both tone and tuning stability. I didn't have as much clearance on this guitar so I had to use a low profile bridge like this one. Neither of these guitars have a vibrato.

 

Tuning is much better on both now. This one did make the guitar sound very different however. I really wasn't expecting that much of a change over the Gotoh bridge but its definitely there.

I'm not convinced its a change for the better at this point either. The Gotoh, is a very hard steel like Swiss or German hardened steel. It tended to make this particular semi hollow build

sound a bit too bright for my liking so I was hoping this bridge would darken the tone a little while fixing the tuning issue.

 

The sound has a notable peg type tone to it. Not a rattle but a thinner midrange resonance, especially to the 2nd and 3rd strings the guitar didn't have before. I believe more vibration is making it past the bridge down through the tailpiece. Its not a bad tone and its actually quite interesting. I'm just cant categorize it as an improvement, just different.

 

I'll likely do some recording with it tonight and run it through various preamps, effects and even my big amps to see how well it does. I may have more to add later when I complete a full assessment of its tone and sustain capabilities. I'm not obsessed with sustain being an absolute necessity either. It may be with the instrument cranked and a speaker blasting the back of the body it may have some excellent self sustaining overtones (at least I'm hoping it does) or it may wind up sounding awful. Just wont know till I run it through the paces.

 

I can see this being a great option for anyone adding a Bigsby type vibrato. The rollers work very well for returning back to pitch but as with many mods, you sometimes trade off one thing to get another.

 

In any case, I know first hand how well these work and sound and so far I'd have to give them an A for functionality and a B+ for tone. As I said that may change with some more testing. I may even try this one on my Les Paul which has the same saddle hang issues.

[gardo]

This one from GFS is interesting it's solid brass.. Not a roller but not a standard TOM either. They claim it has better tone than a TOM. What do you think ?

[WRGKMC]

Yup, That's another one I may try. Not sure the height would be low enough in this particular situation though. You can get allot of these kinds of bridges for $10~20 a pop and even If I don't use it on a guitar I'll keep it in my supply cabs for future builds/repairs.

 

Brass is a key ingredient to decent bridge tone in a TOM bridge. Gibson has used brass saddles for many decades. You get better bass response and warmer mids from Brass but it does have a habit of wearing down and stripping out over time. Steel is more durable, if its the good stuff. Fender gets that steel twang from their rolled steel bridge plates in guitars like their teles which can be cool too. Its just a very different sound.

[gardo]

If you do try one I'll be eager to see what you think of it.

I'm probably going to try one sometime but who knows when

[billybilly]

I bought this one for my Les Paul. Works great, didn't notice a tonal difference but I liked that the string spacing was 52mm.

 

http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/All_Hardware_and_Parts_by_Instrument/Electric_Guitar/Bridges_and_Tailpieces/Tune-o-matic_Bridges/Golden_Age_Roller_Bridge.html

 

[wankdeplank]

Schaller makes a nice one if the radius works for you. A little bit pricey but like all Schaller stuff really well made. I had one on a Washburn Custom Shop P4 I once owned, which was a pretty cool guitar with micro tuners at the bridge, and then I had one installed on an old souped up Harmony H-19 (bigsby) I still have. I like it on the H-19 which is a surfy guitar with a bigsby but really prefer a traditional TOM bridge overall where no whammy is involved.

[WRGKMC]

I bought this one for my Les Paul. Works great, didn't notice a tonal difference but I liked that the string spacing was 52mm.

 

http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/All_Hardware_and_Parts_by_Instrument/Electric_Guitar/Bridges_and_Tailpieces/Tune-o-matic_Bridges/Golden_Age_Roller_Bridge.html

 

 

I did check the specs on that one and I think it would have fit under the strings but the studs were thinner and it would have required replacing the bushings which were also thinner. The build is semi hollow so filling in the existing holes would have been troublesome at best. They do look sleek though.

 

I had put a shaller bridge on my gold top Deluxe LP back in the 70's. It was a mistake I didn't discover till quite awhile later. The radius wasn't right for that neck and it wasn't an improvement in sound quality. I also used one of these stop bar tuners.

 

 

 

I used it until the tuners stripped and wore out and went back to using the original stop bar. As with many mods, You convince yourself something's an improvement because you spent money on it. In this case the tail is flat and the original stop tail was curved to the radius. You don't realize that curved radius is there for a reason right away. I suppose it took experience playing on my part to recognize the differences in string tension, and appreciate the reasons engineered into the original design. Again this is one of those things you only learn through first hand experience doing many builds/mods/and experiments.

 

By the way I did some more tweaking on that roller bridge and it seems to be better. I did some extensive intonation adjustments spanning the entire neck, not just the 12th fret and the tone did improve. With the pickups driven, any differences in tone are masked by the distortion as you would expect. Clean it was a bit warmer sounding with the intonation zeroed in so maybe I didn't make a mistake choosing this one. Main thing is I'm able to bend the hell out of the strings and they all come back to proper pitch on the strobe tuner whereas they tended to be a cent or two flat due to saddle friction. This is the good news I hoped for because I really like this guitar. Its been my #1 out of the 30 or so I own and having it operate flawlessly has been an ongoing challenge.

[Steve2112]

Is there some quantifiable evidence that the string moves over the LP-style bridge? I like the idea for things like tuning, as I feel that is a significant movement and acts like a buzz saw on the strings.

 

And do you put a roller at the nut too? Locking tuners? (with very little wrap)

[Pine Apple Slim]

I put an under $20(guitarpartsonline I think it was) roller on this Epi Explorer. Dropped right onto the posts of the orig Epi tunomatic.

Going from the tunomatic stop tail to the B5 and the roller bridge definitely looses you some sustain. But I gained some subtle but noticeable 'twang". The cheap roller has held up well and doesnt rattle. I really need a roller nut, or a well cut brass one to make this totally killer. The nut is critical w a Bigsby and even more so on the hockey stick headsock.

But with sane Bigsby use the stock plastic nut does ok if you keep it lubed.

 

 

[WRGKMC]

Is there some quantifiable evidence that the string moves over the LP-style bridge? I like the idea for things like tuning, as I feel that is a significant movement and acts like a buzz saw on the strings.

 

And do you put a roller at the nut too? Locking tuners? (with very little wrap)

 

Do strings stretch in length when you bend strings would be the question you have to ask. I think anyone with a logical mind can answer that one and you could also do it using a ruler. If strings stretch then there has to be some movement over the saddles and the easier that movement is the easier the strings will return to pitch.

 

Its not just the strings in all cases though. A thin guitar neck like the Tele neck I have on this build acts a bit like an archers bow. You bend the strings hard and the neck gets a little more relief then returns. Thicker necks, thinner strings, stiffer truss rods will are obviously have little to no bowing effect bending strings and all of the stretch will be in the strings themselves. Aluminum necks come to mind here like in Kramer guitars.

 

I mostly see this bow effect with three guitars I own that have thin maple necks with maple fret boards. I have a 4th with a thicker neck and it doesn't have this bowing effect bending strings. Tremolo guitars too can have the neck flatten when you press the bar down and relieve the neck of its 100+ pounds of pull on the neck. With a roller bridge its going to equalize much quicker and remain in pitch.

 

 

As far as the nut goes, I only have one Strat where I installed a roller nut. I'll never install another on one of my instruments. First its a permanent mod because you have to shorten the fretboard to install it. Second is I hate the cold steel tone that Strat has now. Third, a standard nut can be properly cut polished and lubricated to have minimal string binding and the distance between the nut and tuners is very short so there isn't a whole lot of movement across the nut when you bend strings.

 

I have no need for locking nuts. I developed a dual method 30+ years ago to lock a string to a peg. Its a combination of using this right angle under/over bend.

 

 

Then I wrap one turn above and the rest below the peg hole and that string isn't going to slip at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WRGKMC]

I put an under $20(guitarpartsonline I think it was) roller on this Epi Explorer. Dropped right onto the posts of the orig Epi tunomatic.

Going from the tunomatic stop tail to the B5 and the roller bridge definitely looses you some sustain. But I gained some subtle but noticeable 'twang". The cheap roller has held up well and doesnt rattle. I really need a roller nut, or a well cut brass one to make this totally killer. The nut is critical w a Bigsby and even more so on the hockey stick headsock.

But with sane Bigsby use the stock plastic nut does ok if you keep it lubed.

 

 

That's a cool setup. I'm surprised you didn't get Vibramate kit however which adapts a Bigsby to the stop tail holes. I did a look for hole plugs and its either the search words I was using or maybe thay don't make them. Best I could find was some industrial stuff. http://www.componentforce.com/category/516/plugs--amp--stoppers

 

 

 

 

 

[billybilly]

Is there some quantifiable evidence that the string moves over the LP-style bridge? I like the idea for things like tuning, as I feel that is a significant movement and acts like a buzz saw on the strings.

 

And do you put a roller at the nut too? Locking tuners? (with very little wrap)

 

Yes, pull string, string moves. Pretty simple really.

[mrbrown49]

Is there some quantifiable evidence that the string moves over the LP-style bridge? I like the idea for things like tuning, as I feel that is a significant movement and acts like a buzz saw on the strings.

 

And do you put a roller at the nut too? Locking tuners? (with very little wrap)

 

I have a roller bridge on a couple of guitars in place of a TOM and you can actually see the rollers roll in one direction as the tram is depressed and back again when released. It moves way more than you may expect too.

[DeepEnd]

Happy New Bridge Day.

[Steve2112]

 

Yes, pull string, string moves. Pretty simple really.

 

Like how do you measure it?

 

I am not talking about tuning or trem use. Obviously puts great stress on components. I am talking about typical les paul/tom, that yes does include string bending. Which is a LATERAL force, which seems to me to be less than transverse force like trem using or tuning.

 

I'm not questioning there is some movement, and that some players would look for any kind of improvement or advantage. But that little bit of extra string comes from the entire length of the string...not just at the bridge. What I asked about was QUANTIFIABLE data. That means MEASURABLE.

 

Roller nut? I can see that because of the amount of tuning that happens there. Also, the traditional nut often is very clamp-like.

 

Now- I am not saying it's not a worthy idea. But I think it could be a little more..."complicated" than caveman-like " der string moves derp" mentality. There's science to it.

 

And yes...I do like details. They aren't for everyone.

[Steve2112]

 

I have a roller bridge on a couple of guitars in place of a TOM and you can actually see the rollers roll in one direction as the tram is depressed and back again when released. It moves way more than you may expect too.

 

"tram"?

[AJ6stringsting]

I may have to get a roller nut bridge on my 1974 Gibson LCP, 2007 Epiphone LPC and a 1971 Gibson Medallion Series Flying V, because I like to bend strings between the tailpiece and the bridge for neat chordal effects, it seems to bind at the bridge everyonce in a while.

Thanks for posting this, this could solve that problem !!!!

[billybilly]

 

Like how do you measure it?

 

I am not talking about tuning or trem use. Obviously puts great stress on components. I am talking about typical les paul/tom, that yes does include string bending. Which is a LATERAL force, which seems to me to be less than transverse force like trem using or tuning.

 

I'm not questioning there is some movement, and that some players would look for any kind of improvement or advantage. But that little bit of extra string comes from the entire length of the string...not just at the bridge. What I asked about was QUANTIFIABLE data. That means MEASURABLE.

 

Roller nut? I can see that because of the amount of tuning that happens there. Also, the traditional nut often is very clamp-like.

 

Now- I am not saying it's not a worthy idea. But I think it could be a little more..."complicated" than caveman-like " der string moves derp" mentality. There's science to it.

 

And yes...I do like details. They aren't for everyone.

 

With my eyes, I can see it move. I don't require some mathematical formula for this.

 

An example of this in action is that if your bridge or nut isn't smooth and the string sticks, you'll have tuning issues. This only occurs when the string doesn't move, which it does. Quantifiable enough for me, but then again, I'm pretty smart.

[Pine Apple Slim]

 

 

 

That's a cool setup. I'm surprised you didn't get Vibramate kit however which adapts a Bigsby to the stop tail holes. I did a look for hole plugs and its either the search words I was using or maybe thay don't make them. Best I could find was some industrial stuff. http://www.componentforce.com/catego...-amp--stopper

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wanted more string and less break angle on the B5. So no Vibramate and I put the B5 as far back as it would go and still be able to reach the handle.

 

 

 

you can get a "CUSTOM MADE" plaque here, which is what I have on it now.

 

http://www.amazon.com/GPC-Custom-Made-Bigsby-Cover/dp/B00KQSJCM8

 

​

[humbuckerstrat]

I put a Wilkinson Roller Bridge from GFS on my Samick V, it's a lot more comfortable than the original bridge I had on there. I rest the heel of my hand on the bridge (for palm-muting, etc) and the saddles on the stock bridge would really cut into my wrist.

 

I had originally gotten this bridge for my Hohner hollowbody (which has gold hardware), but it didn't fit. I kept it around and decided to try it on my V and it fit perfectly. And it intonates a lot better than the original bridge.

 

[WRGKMC]

That works. If you want to get rid of the gold plating, just shoot it with WD-40. It strips gold plating off fairly quickly.

[humbuckerstrat]

Thanks for the tip, WRGKMC, I might give that a try.