Members Freeman Keller Posted January 24, 2015 Members Share Posted January 24, 2015 As some of you might remember, I've recently built a couple of Les Paul clones. They are identical with two exceptions - both made from Honduras mahogany but one has a maple cap and the other Spanish cedar (which is a kind of mahogany). One guitar was chambered, that is the insides is routed out to save weight - it is about a pound and a half lighter than the solid one. Other than that they have the same Parson Street PAF copy pickups, same pots and caps, same scale length, neck wood, fretboard, yadda yadda. I recently had the opportunity to have a friend play both of them side by side. We used a Quilter Micro Pro 200 amp and simply switched the cable between guitars. Both guitars had the volume and tone pots on 10, nothing was changed on the amp. Recorded thru a SM57 into Cakewalk - sorry I only did one channel. We just sat around noddling with the guitars, talking, drinking beer and recorded the whole thing. I later extracted these two clips trying to pick sections of the session that were similar. Obviously there are a couple of flaws here - there are two variables but my feeling is that the top plate woods have less effect than the chambering. The engineering properties of the woods are quite similar and they are only about 3/8 thick, glued to the mahogany body. But it is something to consider. Also, a better test would have been to play some simple chords and single notes rather than noddling - unfortunately this is what you get. Can you hear a difference? Which one is cambered and which is solid? Discuss http://vom.infocusreviews.com/index.php?p=play&id=Freeman_Keller/Les_Paul_Jr_1.mp3 http://vom.infocusreviews.com/index.php?p=play&id=Freeman_Keller/Les_Paul_FK_1.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hellion_213 Posted January 24, 2015 Members Share Posted January 24, 2015 Will have to fire up the computer later - won't let me access with my tablet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 24, 2015 Author Members Share Posted January 24, 2015 Will have to fire up the computer later - won't let me access with my tablet You can open both sound clips at the same time and go back and forth between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Into Nation Posted January 24, 2015 Members Share Posted January 24, 2015 Clip #1 sounded woodier to me, so I'll guess that is the chambered one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papaschtroumpf Posted January 24, 2015 Members Share Posted January 24, 2015 Can't access the sound clips without registering on VOM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thatsbunk Posted January 24, 2015 Members Share Posted January 24, 2015 I'm guessing the 1st one is chambered since you have it labeled Les Paul Jr. Honestly they sound pretty much the same to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted January 24, 2015 Members Share Posted January 24, 2015 Other than the photo clearly shows the FK with flame top and the J with what I'd have to guess is the cedar top and the J was played Jazzly and the FK bluesly, the clips had one odd distinction. The Junior clip has that warm buttery quality and the JK has that edgy rasp characteristic of an Epi Dot. I has one and the effect is very familiar. Intuition would lead toward cedar top, warm tone = hollow. And maple cap and edgy sound = solid standard Paul. In spite of all that Ahmma go with the Epi effect and guess that the FK is chambered and the Junior, solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted January 24, 2015 Members Share Posted January 24, 2015 Cool stuff!! I'd love to play those guitars. I like the Jr better. Hard to say why - just sounds juicy and interesting in the lows and lower mids. The other one sounds great too and would probably cut through in a band situation better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted January 25, 2015 Members Share Posted January 25, 2015 Me too, cant open either on tablet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 25, 2015 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2015 Can't access the sound clips without registering on VOM? You should not have to register - they should just play automatically. I tried it from my Android phone and it shows the VOM site but says I needed a Flash player - that might be the problem with the tablets. Works fine from my PC's and I don't have to be logged into the VOM. By the way, the VOM site was created some time back to be a neutral place to host music - for a while we had the HC Annex but when it went down there weren't too many options. Thanks for everyone's comments - I'll let this run a little longer before telling which is which. I also apologize for the format of the clips - I think the comparison between these guitars is valid as is the basic recording, but to better be able to talk about sustain and whether one is warmer or brighter or whatever terms you want to use I should have recorded differently. If I have a chance to do it over again I will record exactly the same thing, starting with just single open string notes and a few chords. Maybe a couple of simple riffs - the main thing is to have exactly the same notes to compare. The Jr has gone to its new home but is due back for a 50,000 note check up soon - I'll try to rerecord them at that time (as much for me as for discussion here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted January 25, 2015 Members Share Posted January 25, 2015 First one is the chambered. But to my ears, I prefer the second one. more bite, more of that "growl" that a good guitar has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted January 25, 2015 Members Share Posted January 25, 2015 They don't sound the same but it's a tough call. I think I'll go guitar one (Jr) chambered guitar two solid. One just sounds more "open" to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emory Posted January 25, 2015 Members Share Posted January 25, 2015 Both sound very nice.... call it a draw and if had to choose I'd take the lighter weight of the two. Getting old does have it's drawbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t_e_l_e Posted January 25, 2015 Members Share Posted January 25, 2015 both sound great, maybe a bit different but not much, i don't know which is which, on my laptop speakers its hard to tell which i like better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted January 25, 2015 Members Share Posted January 25, 2015 Thanks for the demo, I really need to get some monitors hooked up to my laptop, not fair to comment given the quality of my audio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RaVenCAD Posted January 25, 2015 Members Share Posted January 25, 2015 I've never bought into the chambered vs non-chambered fight. Pickups and EQ settings can more than make up for missing wood. Throw on a little gain and you might as well have a guitar made out of asphalt. Both sounded great to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted January 25, 2015 Members Share Posted January 25, 2015 Have you folks listened to the clips with headphones or good speakers? To my ears there's a really big difference between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 26, 2015 Author Members Share Posted January 26, 2015 I've never bought into the chambered vs non-chambered fight. Pickups and EQ settings can more than make up for missing wood. Throw on a little gain and you might as well have a guitar made out of asphalt. Both sounded great to me. Yes, I basically agree with that but the point here is that these had exactly the same pickups and amp settings, I was expecting far less (or no) difference, but we certainly felt it was there. Have you folks listened to the clips with headphones or good speakers? To my ears there's a really big difference between the two. Thanks Koiwoi, that was our feeling too. I'm going to let this go a little bit longer before revealing the results and I'll let you know our thoughts as we played around with them. I really do need to get Jr back and make another recording..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted January 26, 2015 Members Share Posted January 26, 2015 Yes I also thought the difference was substantial. The Jr sounded warmer to my ears, the FK a little spankier. I'm guessing that the Jr is the chambered one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted January 27, 2015 Members Share Posted January 27, 2015 I LOVED the way clip 1 sounded. Loved it.Didn't care much for the sound of clip 2. But clip 1 had killer tone AFAIC. Listened to both with AKG K-240 headphones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MorganB Posted January 27, 2015 Members Share Posted January 27, 2015 Nice builds, first sounded more like a Hollow Body on my PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Danhedonia Posted January 28, 2015 Members Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm with the consensus; thought the first sounded like the chambered one. Both beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Caffeinated Cat Posted January 28, 2015 Members Share Posted January 28, 2015 First clip sounds warmer and richer, second one is a bit more "raspy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted January 28, 2015 Author Members Share Posted January 28, 2015 Thank you everyone - I found each set of comments very interesting. The Jr is the chambered one and we agreed that it had the warmer sound - it just happens that the player likes the solid one better but the new owner of the Jr prefers it. Nice how that works. Its also the subject of the build thread that we did last fall. Since several of you seemed to prefer the Jr I wonder why more electrics aren't built this way. It does add a little bit of routing during construction but since bodies are made on a mill nowdays that shouldn't be an issue. It does make the guitar almost 1-1/2 pounds lighter. One thing that struck me is that playing the Jr unplugged it has a much stronger "acoustic" sound - even tho that top is 3/8 thick it must want to vibrate. It would be interesting to do some more recording and explore sustain and the sound of individual notes - we really didn't think this thru very carefully. Anyway, I hope this was meaningful and thanks for listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papaschtroumpf Posted January 28, 2015 Members Share Posted January 28, 2015 using cheap headsets (and hearing only on one side, probably because the recording is mono?) I have a preference for the 2nd one (FK) and I'm going to guess it's the chambered one.EDIT: hehe I had missed there was a second page to this thread and the answer was out, and I of course, was wrong. I still prefer the 2nd one, at least over my headphones. thanks for posting FK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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