Stop tailpiece

[Freeman Keller]

Do you string yours out the back and over the top or straight out the front towards the bridge? Why?

[phaeton]

I don't have a stop tailpiece guitar (just one wraparound) but the only thing I can think of that would matter in straight vs. wrapped is how it interfaces the saddles. In theory, straight would mean more downforce of the string into the saddle, which might have a favorable effect on resonance. The drawback is that more string-to-saddle pressure might exacerbate any string breakage problems that might occur there.

 

Meanwhile, more length of string wrapped around the back could mean more places for slipping/binding and could exacerbate tuning stability on a craptastic bridge that is either soft or has rough edges. In a quick google images search, I saw one wrapped out of about 30 straight.

 

Go figure.

[ido1957]

Straight to the saddles the ordinary way.

[Grant Harding]

I had my Yamaha sg2000 strung up normally, but the tension felt a bit stiffer than I wanted, so I did a top wrap on my next string change and I like it better. Feels a bit softer on bends. I'd recommend normal for what I've heard of your playing style unless you crack out whole step bends when we're not looking.

[gardo]

Straight out the front,why not?

[Grant Harding]

Straight out the front' date='why not?[/quote']Lower break angle at the bridge saddles, meaning less stiff feeling to play.

[gardo]

Lower break angle at the bridge saddles' date=' meaning less stiff feeling to play.[/quote']

 

[video=youtube;bMgzwOt-GJc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMgzwOt-GJc

 

He really cracked me up when he said "I can't wait 'til my whole generation dies"

[Pine Apple Slim]

Don't own one at present, but I never wraped, straight thru. Right now I have thru body and top load Teles, 2 Bigsbied guitars, and a Shaller wraparound.

[Grant Harding]

He really cracked me up when he said "I can't wait 'til my whole generation dies"

That quote is a good example of how amazing he thinks he is. He's just an a$$hole, nothing more.

[DonK]

I stick to the conventional method simply because that's how the stop-tail was designed to be strung, but I know there are some big name proponents of the wraparound method, perhaps most notably Billy Gibbons. Personally, I view it as the more string there is behind the nut or the bridge, the more opportunity for tonal mischief (buzzing, overtones, etc.). That's just my perception, but it would be interesting to see an experiment that objectively identifies the differences if any.

[DonK]

Lower break angle at the bridge saddles' date=' meaning less stiff feeling to play.[/quote']

 

I've seen that asserted at least a hundred times, but have never seen a minimal - much less an adequate - explanation of the physics involved that would support it. Ultimately, tension is a function of string mass, pitch and scale length (the distance from the nut to the saddles, not between the pegs and anything behind the bridge). Together these determine the tension, which can be objectively measured in pounds or an equivalent measure. Tension is what determines the stiffness or feel.

 

String makers like D'Addario have written treatises on this. Here's an excerpt along with a link to just D'Addario's explanation (there are plenty of others):

 

"String tension is determined by vibrating length, mass, and pitch...[vibrating length equals] scale length, or the distance between the nut and the saddle..."

 

Note that vibrating length is the distance between the nut and the saddle (sometimes mistakenly referred to as the bridge, which technically is not the same thing), not the distance from the string termination at one end (say the peg head or tuner) or the other (anything from a stop tailpiece to a trapeze tailpiece to the trem block on a Strat or the ferrules on a Tele).

 

http://www.daddario.com/DAstringtens...8-80e68a17f7ea

 

D'Addario specifies OBJECTIVE measures of the string tension for various sets they manufacture without regard to the make or model of guitar, or whether it's a Gibson-style stop-tail or Fender-style trem or string-through bridge.

 

[WRGKMC]

I did it over the top on my Paul for many years up until the time I bought a new Aluminum tailpiece. I've switched back and forth on my Epi Dot and get better tonal results with them over the strings. The old tail on my Paul was worn so I didn't mind the damage to the old one. What it allows is some of the string feel you get from using a suspended tail piece. The string is a little longer when running it over the tail so the tension increases end to end just a small amount. I can also lock the tail down when running the strings over without having too sharp of an angle where the strings hit the side of the bridge and kill the harmonics between the tail and bridge. Run straight through, I have to raise the tail up at least 1/2 inch or more to prevent that.

 

With less tension on the saddles there is less string friction bending strings and a guitar is more likely to remain in tune. If you have a standard TOM with brass saddles the brass is softer then steel strings and will tend to wear more. The wrapped strings will even make grooves in the saddles and prevent the string from sliding as you bend strings.

 

If you're the type who wangs the tail all the way down, you may get a little more sustain. (not that a Paul needs it with its super dense body) Adjust it too high and you of course get more sound passing the saddles into the tail piece. Somewhere in between you usually find the ideal tone for the guitar and playability for the player.

 

I spent years experimenting with tail height to get the best of both and found I liked the breakaway angle a suspended tail piece would give me. I now take a straight edge and set it on the tail of the body up to where the string contacts the saddle and adjust the breakaway angle to mimic what a floating tail would produce. If it was an ES335 semi hollow, the body would be even longer and the string break away angle less. The Paul is shorter so the angle is sharper.

 

There was a reason why Les Paul originally designed his first tail pieces to be used that way. He was a Jazz guitarist who played guitars with floating tail pieces before he built his log and Paul's. He used the strings over the tail to get the breakaway angle he was used to. It was Gibson that decided it would look better to run the string through the tail instead. There's less tension between the tail and string core that way. Run through the tail vibrations can make it down to the ball end more. Run over the top, its more like a guitar fret which transfers the energy from the string core straight down to the body.

 

I doubt Its something you can hear much plugged in unless you use pickups that produce those harmonics well. A good example is the rake done between the Bridge and tail by Eddie Van Halen on Running with the Devil.

 

There's a comfort factor with strings over the tail too. If you rest your hand on the strings in back of the bridge you don't bump into the clunky tail piece with the strings running over it. If you use the side of your hand to dampen strings this can be more comfortable when you slide your hand from in back of the bridge to the front to dampen strings. Something you cant do on a fender bridge without getting your hand ripped up on the saddle height screws.

 

Other then that its worthwhile experimenting both ways and seeing if its something you prefer. If you're a Fender guy you probably like a sharp breakaway angle with its through body string termination. You may be missing some of the cool harmonics you can get with less pressure on the bridge. Just keep in mind, if you try messing with it with worn strings, it will sound awful because the wear at the frets and beds at the saddles produce. Its best to experiment after changing the strings. It may require some minor truss compensation and tweaks to get the best playability back as well.

[Mr Temporary]

 

I've seen that asserted at least a hundred times, but have never seen a minimal - much less an adequate - explanation of the physics involved that would support it. Ultimately, tension is a function of string mass, pitch and scale length (the distance from the nut to the saddles, not between the pegs and anything behind the bridge). Together these determine the tension, which can be objectively measured in pounds or an equivalent measure. Tension is what determines the stiffness or feel.

 

 

Yes, this does come up on a regular basis, and I think it's a case of lumping everything under the term "tension". Tension is the pulling force on the string, and nothing more. Changing the afterlength, break angle, etc. does not change the amount of pull on the string between the nut and the saddle.

 

String Elasticity is something else altogether. Friction and downforce/pressure over the saddle and nut are others. Bend the string, and those factors come into play.

 

I would disagree, though, the assertion that tension is the only thing that determines stiffness or feel. You can demonstrate that by changing strings to another with equivalent tension, installing a roller bridge and/or nut, changing the break angle at the saddle or nut, and changing the afterlength of the strings. I personally don't feel a lot of difference in those, just when changing between guitars with different scale lengths or string gauges, but then again I've been mostly playing bass over the last few years.

 

I'm open to being corrected.

[Freeman Keller]

Interesting thoughts, thanks...

 

One clarification - the little piece of string from the bridge to the tailpiece (as well as from the nut to the tuner) is under exactly the same tension as from the nut to bridge. The same equation applies - the fact that the length is very short means that the frequency that it is tuned to is so much higher - that's why it makes the little plinking sound if you pluck it.

 

Also, those pieces of string do stretch when you bend a note in the same ratio as to the over all length - that is why a guitar with a end tailpiece feels easier to bend.

 

I'm also very aware of how break angle works on an acoustic, but since we really aren't driving the top on an electric I was interested in why people string them the way they do.

[Ancient Mariner]

I did briefly try top-wrapping in a quest for sorting out issues I had with a particular guitar, and it did seem to feel a little softer to bend, but I don't routinely top-wrap my Les Pauls.

[AJ6stringsting]

I replaced my stock tailpiece on my 1971 Medallion Series Flying V, 1974 Gibson Les Paul Custom and 2007 Epiphone Les Paul Custom and put in a Schaller Tailpiece with fine tuners .... far better than stock !!!!

[Grant Harding]

For the record, I only just tried it based on what I've read online and I could just be imagining that it feels a bit softer on bends. I haven't done any stress, strain, or deflecting testing. Either way I'm loving the way it plays at the moment.

[cybersecretary]

I have this kind on my '08 Mira

[cybersecretary]

I found they have a new kind

[DonK]

I would disagree, though, the assertion that tension is the only thing that determines stiffness or feel. You can demonstrate that by changing strings to another with equivalent tension, installing a roller bridge and/or nut, changing the break angle at the saddle or nut, and changing the afterlength of the strings. I personally don't feel a lot of difference in those, just when changing between guitars with different scale lengths or string gauges, but then again I've been mostly playing bass over the last few years.

 

I'm open to being corrected.

 

I've wondered if other factors could make a difference, if only in perception if not "reality". I recall when Elixir came out with their original Polyweb acoustic strings. They felt really stiff to me, and I attributed it to the thick coating - the Nanoweb strings that followed have a much thinner, almost imperceptible, coating - but that coating might have been part of the mass in the "mass, scale and pitch" calculation.

[badpenguin]

I tend to go the traditional route, and go thru the tailpiece to the bridge. I did try the up and over thingy, but never noticed any real difference. I did however, hate putting my hand on the tailpiece.