Members billybilly Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 I'm speaking about using a .047 as opposed to a .022, not the 250k, 500k ones. As near as I can see it, the lower value lets more highs in while not decreasing the bass. Wouldn't you want that so you can access more highs if you want to? I ask this as I rewiring my guitar and as it has humbuckers, the diagram from seymour duncan recommends .047's but I don't understand why? Here's the image... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 Its not necessarily an advantage, its a target. Higher values target a lower frequency roll off in a low pass tone filter. The trick is to know what frequency you want to remove. You can do it mathematically of just use the trial and error method. One super simple method is to grab a handful of caps at different values, then unscrew one end of your guitar cord then touch the ends of the caps across the hot and ground and it will do the same thing as the tone control turned all the way down. A lower value cap will produce a higher muted tone with only a little treble roll off and more bass and mids left untouched. A higher cap will remove more highs and mids leaving only the bass. This quick check is handy because you can target the frequencies you want to remove without having to solder them in to test them all. Since caps are manufactured at specific values, you can also try different values in series and/or parallel to hit specific frequencies to find something unique. Different brands at the same values can sound very different depending on their "Q" (Quality value) some will roll frequencies off very sharp like the orange drop and some will roll them off with a long slope. Trying them out first is a good way of knowing what you want. Then if you need a tad more either way you can look up a Cap calculator on line and figure what's needed in parallel or series to tweak the value. Many inexpensive Multi meters will read cap values today too. You can just use the meter to test what value you have and use the meter to zero in on the cap combinations to get what you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted November 19, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 Thanks, it seems it's just experimentation. I've got both 47's and 22's around so I'll give it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted November 19, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 I've got another question... With the tone on "10" is there much of a difference or is it when you roll it down you notice a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 Even with the tone on 10 there will still be some high frequency signal shunted to ground. I know a few guys who clip the caps on their Les Pauls for that reason. The higher the value of the tone pot, the less treble cut there will be with the control on 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Floyd Rosenbomb Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 I like singles with .22 caps. That is how Dimarzio recommends all of their singles be wired actaully. I can control the tone with my amps tone knob if need be. It is nice to have a couple caps on hand and just let your ear decide. One more note would be the treble bleed mod. This is a cap on the volume pot that is soldered in from the second post to the third. The value of this cap is 331. You can see it in this image. It's great with humbuckers. When you roll down the volume for reasons of less gain you can still keep full sound of the pickup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted November 19, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 Cool, I'm learning things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted November 19, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 Even with the tone on 10 there will still be some high frequency signal shunted to ground. I know a few guys who clip the caps on their Les Pauls for that reason. The higher the value of the tone pot' date=' the less treble cut there will be with the control on 10.[/quote'] So, they get rid of them entirely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 One super simple method is to grab a handful of caps at different values, then unscrew one end of your guitar cord then touch the ends of the caps across the hot and ground and it will do the same thing as the tone control turned all the way down.. A Slick Trick. I attach two temorary leads in place of the cap and have them out side the guitar then try different caps on the leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted November 19, 2014 Members Share Posted November 19, 2014 Doubling the value of the capacitor will move the frequencies it affects down roughly an octave. 47 is about 2.136 times 22 so you should see the effect a bit over an octave lower. FWIW, the capacitor in my bass is a .047 so that should give you an idea of the frequencies you'll be affecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 20, 2014 Members Share Posted November 20, 2014 Go to part two of this http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=43053 The entire series is one of the best I've seen at explaining electric guitar electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted November 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 20, 2014 Great link/links, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted November 20, 2014 Members Share Posted November 20, 2014 So, they get rid of them entirely? Yes, it disables the tone control. It's not something I would do especially when so much gain is available with modern amplifiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted November 20, 2014 Members Share Posted November 20, 2014 You can use a zero load pot if you want to remove the tone cap completely. A zero load pot has the resistor cut or blocked at one end so when the pots on 10 there is no path to ground. you can use them on volume pots too to remove the volume pot load and get that little extra presence boost. You can do the same thing with a switch too. Most of my builds and mods, I don't bother with a tone cap. I use those pots or holes in the body/pickguard for better/more useful options. On my factory guitars I may leave some stock depending on the instruments value, but rarely if ever use them. I use the one on my Tele on occasion when I have new strings and roll the edge off a little. Other than that, I'd rather use pickup and coil blends to darken the tones. On many of my guitars when you turn the volume down the tone darkens up anyway. If anything, just the opposite, a treble bleed cap to maintain treble would be more beneficial. Everything else is done on a pedal board or with the amps EQ. . On a strat for example, I'll take the two tones, make one a master tone for all pickups and use the other to blend the third pickup so I can have all three pickups on or the bridge and neck depending on where the selector switch is positioned and have two more pickup combinations that are much more beneficial then a simple tone control. In other cases I may use one master tone and the other adds a treble bleed cap to the master volume. I then have a bass cut and a treble roll off which leaves nothing but mids. On some other guitars I've installed active preamps, overdrive and active tone controls that are small enough to fit in a single pot position and provide some highly beneficial tonal changes. These little circuits both passive and active give you a much wider pallet of tones and all are easily reversible. http://artecsound.com/pickups/electronics/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted November 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 20, 2014 Ya, I've used those zero or "no load" pots before on my strats, I like them. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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