"Real" guitarists

[DeepEnd]

This was triggered by a couple of comments in the "How do you see the neck?" thread. Jazzer2020 and Floyd Rosenbomb both mentioned power chords. As a rhythm guitarist who is primarily acoustic player and fairly new to electric (about 2 years off and on vs. about 40 years playing acoustic), I've found hanging out here and over in the Amps forum educational. It seems "real" guitarists share certain characteristics:

 

They only play power chords

They only use tube amps

They love a trem

They pretty much never play a guitar "stock," it's always modded in some fashion

 

Unless new tuners and pickguard count as "mods," I fail on all of those.

 

What about you? What are some things you've learned about "real" guitarists?

[gardo]

You can tell a real guitarist by his pedal board.

More pedals = More Skill

 

[Chordite]

You don't have to be bleedin' Segovia to play real guitar.!

This is very 'real' to me, in fact I think I prefer it to John Williams despite the fact any teenager can knock it out in his bedroom after a week with a guitar

 

[video=youtube_share;hLhN__oEHaw]

[WRGKMC]

Instead of real vs. unreal. I'd make the distinction between Pro and Amateur.

 

1. They only play power chords. A pro can play any chords needed for the musical composition and throw in some of his own interpretations

 

2. They only use tube amps. This was true in the past but has changed allot because the quality of SS has improved. Many prefer tube amps but most love anything that just sounds good. Both new and old can be cool. Its even better when you have an endorsement and get your gear for free or at wholesale.

 

3. They love a trem A pro will usually have several guitars and use it like any other tool. If the music requires it, they use it.

 

4. They pretty much never play a guitar "stock," it's always modded in some fashion. Most pros I know can afford to buy guitars that don't need modding or own vintage guitars they'd never dream of modding. Most are too busy playing full time to be bothered with modding themselves. They may have custom work if its needed, have something built for them or just normal maintenance, fret work, pots replaced, that kind of stuff. There's always exceptions, but most don't even want to look at a guitar in their spare time. I know I didn't when I played 5 nights a week for 10 years. Working on guitars or fixing issues was a pain in the ass.

 

 

 

[Floyd Rosenbomb]

This was triggered by a couple of comments in the "How do you see the neck?" thread. Jazzer2020 and Floyd Rosenbomb both mentioned power chords. As a rhythm guitarist who is primarily acoustic player and fairly new to electric (about 2 years off and on vs. about 40 years playing acoustic), I've found hanging out here and over in the Amps forum educational. It seems "real" guitarists share certain characteristics:

 

They only play power chords

They only use tube amps

They love a trem

They pretty much never play a guitar "stock," it's always modded in some fashion

 

Unless new tuners and pickguard count as "mods," I fail on all of those.

 

What about you? What are some things you've learned about "real" guitarists?

 

Why are putting words in my mouth, DeepEnd?

I've never even used the phrase "power chords."

Where have I ever said that I used only power chords?

Where have I said anything about modding my guitars?

I like a trem, but I've never said that those who do not are some how less valid as players. Some of my favorite guitarists don't play trems

 

Your premise is off. There is no such thing as a "un-real guitarist." There is just guitarists. Some of them have more natural creative talent then others, some have more technical knowledge then others but really it's about enjoying your time with the instrument and if you do that, then I'd say you are a guitarist.

 

[DeepEnd]

I also never said you said any of those things. Now who's putting words in whose mouth? I simply said your comments and those of Jazzer2020 had sparked some thoughts. Here's your post for all to see:

. . . A thought on the discussion of playing 4 or 5 note chords. The down side can be that it limits what the other instruments can play. If you use a lot of 2 note "chords" this leaves a lot of room for a soloist to work, for example.

 

Does not mean that 4 or 5 note chords are wrong, its just that you can do 2 notes and let the other player to 2 notes and those 4 notes tend to make something interesting.

Two note chords are "power chords." Heck, even I know that. So you didn't use the term but you did describe them. If I say "It has four legs and a tail, and it barks," you're probably going to think of a dog. And I've bolded the relevant portion of your post so everyone can see that you didn't put down those of us who play multi-note chords. And here is Jazzer2020's post:

. . . I wouldn't consider a guitarist "bad" if they routinely played 5 or 6 note chords, . . .

 

. . . When I mentioned "Very few guitar players play more than 4 notes at a time for long!" I wasn't thinking of the garden variety first position folkie playing open chords, but rather, seasoned players who play along the entire neck.

 

Rockers got smart when they figured out that only strings 4, 5 and 6 or 3, 4 and 5 are required for power chords. . . .

Guilty as charged. I am a "garden variety first position folkie" and I do play mostly open first position chords. That doesn't mean I don't play up the neck when required but I'm at home playing near the nut.

 

That said, these were simply a few generalities that I picked up during my time here and over in the Amps forum. I'm not accusing anyone of anything and I'm certainly not saying anyone considers me less than a "real" guitarist, although I'm certainly not a professional. Anyway, here are a couple more, partly courtesy of gardo and WRGKMC:

 

They have monstrous pedal boards

They have several guitars

They don't use capos

[Grant Harding]

A real guitarist plays as part of the band in all ways. Playing just what's needed, at the right volume and not playing through passages that don't need any guitar.

[DeepEnd]

^ Ah, at last something I can do, more or less. Yeah, seriously, that one is key. Most of the stuff I've been posting has been facetious but I'm glad you posted what you did. Several years ago, our praise band had a member who played electric exclusively (the rest of us normally play acoustics), a sweet old ES-225 through a Twin Reverb. Unfortunately, he was hard of hearing and not completely "there" so he played 'way too loud with too much bass, and frequently he'd play when nobody else was playing or play lead when he was supposed to be playing rhythm. It's not very Christian of me but I was glad when he decided to find another church.

[onelife]

 

Two note chords are "power chords." Heck, even I know that.

 

Not always.Two note chords are often used in jazz with the tritone being an example.

 

A blues turnaround such as I7 - VI7 - II7 - V7 could be played by the guitarist using only the tritone (two notes) and descending chromatically for each chord change.

 

 

[1001gear]

Real guitarists are all about tone. The right notes are too hard to find.

[DeepEnd]

Not always.Two note chords are often used in jazz with the tritone being an example. . . .

Okay, my bad. In a thread about generalities, I used one too many. I should've said "Two note chords are generally power chords." Then again, I don't play jazz although I like listening to it. I do know a "power chord" is a root and 5th. Still, I can think of at least one instance when a power chord or something similar would come in handy: The praise band does one song--sorry, I can't remember which one--where there's a place where the music shows a D and an E in both treble and bass clef. What kind of chord is that supposed to be? E7? Em7? Dsus2? None of those sounds quite right but I'm thinking an E power chord might work. BTW, can power chords be inverted, with the 5th lower than the root? For instance, would

X

X

X

X

0

0

be an A power chord except inverted? Or am I on the wrong path again?

 

Real guitarists are all about tone. The right notes are too hard to find.

I must be a "real guitarist" then. Seems like I can never find the right notes. I might as well concentrate on tone.

[onelife]

 

The praise band does one song--sorry, I can't remember which one--where there's a place where the music shows a D and an E in both treble and bass clef. What kind of chord is that supposed to be? E7? Em7? Dsus2? None of those sounds quite right...

 

What's in a name?

 

Can you elaborate on the D and E bit a little more? When you say both bass and treble clef do you mean each note is doubled in octaves?

 

Perhaps you con provide some context such as what comes before and after the bit in question.

 

 

[1001gear]

Okay, my bad. In a thread about generalities, I used one too many. I should've said "Two note chords are generally power chords." Then again, I don't play jazz although I like listening to it. I do know a "power chord" is a root and 5th. Still, I can think of at least one instance when a power chord or something similar would come in handy: The praise band does one song--sorry, I can't remember which one--where there's a place where the music shows a D and an E in both treble and bass clef. What kind of chord is that supposed to be? E7? Em7? Dsus2? None of those sounds quite right but I'm thinking an E power chord might work. BTW, can power chords be inverted, with the 5th lower than the root? For instance, would

X

X

X

X

0

0

be an A power chord except inverted? Or am I on the wrong path again?

 

 

I must be a "real guitarist" then. Seems like I can never find the right notes. I might as well concentrate on tone.

 

Relax. You're in good company.

 

[video=youtube;sjzZh6-h9fM]

 

On music theory, if you're stumped, check the context. The key sig, the prog leading to the part in question as well as the prog leading away.

[Grant Harding]

 

BTW, can power chords be inverted, with the 5th lower than the root? For instance, would

X

X

X

X

0

0

be an A power chord except inverted? Or am I on the wrong path again?

This is the key to Smoke on the Water and why it usually sounds wrong when people play it. They play too many notes. It's just 2 notes in a tight inverted group that makes it sound so heavy and focussed.

 

 

[Jazzer2020]

Instead of real vs. unreal. I'd make the distinction between Pro and Amateur.

 

I'd agree with that. Mind you, there are quite a few very talented guitar players who don't play professionally (and are very 'real').

 

1. They only play power chords. A pro can play any chords needed for the musical composition and throw in some of his own interpretations

 

Quite right.

 

2. They only use tube amps. This was true in the past but has changed allot because the quality of SS has improved. Many prefer tube amps but most love anything that just sounds good. Both new and old can be cool.

 

Right again. Personally, I much much prefer the sound of a tube amp to a SS amp.

But there are occasions when I get out my SS amp.

 

3. They love a trem A pro will usually have several guitars and use it like any other tool. If the music requires it, they use it.

 

Right again. Of my 10+ guitars, only one (Fender Strat) has a tremolo, and I use it less than .01 % of the time I play that guitar.

 

4. They pretty much never play a guitar "stock," it's always modded in some fashion.

 

Some of my guitars didn't get modded for decades, but eventually almost all have succumbed.

 

 

[Surrealistic]

... It seems "real" guitarists share certain characteristics:

 

They only play power chords

They only use tube amps

They love a trem

They pretty much never play a guitar "stock," it's always modded in some fashion

 

Unless new tuners and pickguard count as "mods," I fail on all of those.

 

What about you? What are some things you've learned about "real" guitarists?

 

If those are the criteria then yep, same here, I'm not a real guitarist.

 

BTW, maybe I'm hanging around the wrong threads but, for the most part, I can't say I've picked up quite so strongly on those characteristics.

 

 

[Jazzer2020]

Two note chords are "power chords." Heck, even I know that. So you didn't use the term but you did describe them. If I say "It has four legs and a tail, and it barks," you're probably going to think of a dog. And I've bolded the relevant portion of your post so everyone can see that you didn't put down those of us who play multi-note chords.

 

As has already been pointed out, two note 'chords' are much much more than "power chords".

They can be power chords but they can also be Dom7 chords, Min7 chords, Maj chords, Min chords, Maj7 chords, Dim chords, Aug chords, etc. In fact they can be just about any chord you can think of, in an abbreviated form.

 

That's the beauty of them. If you are a jazz guitar player running through changes coming at you very fast, it is very convenient to throw in a flurry of two note 'chords'.

'Chords' is used loosely, because technically two notes comprise an interval, not a chord.

BUT... with a bass player behind you, the two notes + bass become a chord.

 

Anyway, here are a couple more, partly courtesy of gardo and WRGKMC:

 

They have monstrous pedal boards

They have several guitars

They don't use capos

 

I have only a few pedals and rarely use them (not required for jazz).

I do have 10+ guitars (guilty as charged).

I do use capos when I am played my steel string acoustic but not my electrics.

 

[Jazzer2020]

Real guitarists are all about tone. The right notes are too hard to find.

 

This guy obviously knows a thing or two about real guitarists.

[Jazzer2020]

Okay, my bad. In a thread about generalities, I used one too many. I should've said "Two note chords are generally power chords." Then again, I don't play jazz although I like listening to it.

 

Not quite. As I mentioned above, two note chords are not even 'generally' power chords.

In fact they aren't really chords (a real guitarist would know that).

 

 

BTW, can power chords be inverted, with the 5th lower than the root? For instance, would

X

X

X

X

0

0

be an A power chord except inverted? Or am I on the wrong path again?

 

You got it!

[billybilly]

They pretty much never play a guitar "stock," it's always modded in some fashion

 

I lived with a bunch of pro guitar playing musicians (I'm amateur), none of them had any of their gear modded and didn't know how to set up their guitars. They used to get me to and give me free lessons as payback. I found it astounding they did not have any knowledge of the intricacies how a guitar was put together, modded and such. I guess they were too busy playing the damn things.

[papaschtroumpf]

"2. They only use tube amps. This was true in the past but has changed allot because the quality of SS has improved."

 

Not trying to start a religious war here, but some of the blues greats like BB king or Albert King preferred solid state amps (Labtec I think?). But maybe they're not "real" guitarists

 

Of course BB could probably sound good (and like himself) through the Rogue G10 crap amp that came with my kids "starter pack".

[DeepEnd]

If those are the criteria then yep, same here, I'm not a real guitarist.

 

BTW, maybe I'm hanging around the wrong threads but, for the most part, I can't say I've picked up quite so strongly on those characteristics.

It's entirely possible. Then again, it's also possible that I'm approaching it from a different perspective. As an acoustic rhythm guitarist (primarily), I look at things differently. There's a certain vibe that seems clear to me but that you might not notice. There are certain--well--myths. That's why WRGKMC's "amateur vs. pro" distinction misses the point.

[WRGKMC]

It's entirely possible. Then again, it's also possible that I'm approaching it from a different perspective. As an acoustic rhythm guitarist (primarily), I look at things differently. There's a certain vibe that seems clear to me but that you might not notice. There are certain--well--myths. That's why WRGKMC's "amateur vs. pro" distinction misses the point.

 

 

My armature vs pro is simply a general opinion based on my experiences in the business. I played acoustic with many pro players as well, but people rarely mod acoustics nor play allot of rock on them so things like power chords, amps just don't apply as much.

 

I rejected the real vs unreal because a player only needs to be able to play one or two chords to play a song. That does make them a guitarist at that point. Maybe not a good one nor experienced one. I've heard plenty who know many chords that are pretty awful too. Having good timing, tuning, ear, tone, tuning are all important to being a good musician.

 

How you classify amateur and professional is highly debatable too. My comment is not to suggest someone doesn't have skill or musical knowledge, to critical things needed for being a good musician. Its the experience you gain working with a band for pay is where I drew the line between amateur and pro. You could make a separate category like semi pro for those who perform for free, weekend warriors etc if you want.

 

I really don't see this as any other profession however. You can have someone into electronics build all kinds of excellent stuff, do all kinds of repairs as a hobby. That's not the same as working for a corporation or running your own business using that skill.

 

The big thing is people get so dam emotional about their musical skills. They don't do that in other fields nearly as much. I suppose its because music requires allot of blind faith to keep you going, at least until you have some self confidence and experience under your belt.

 

My wish is, whatever level you play at, do it with joy. When it stops being enjoyable, you lost something that is very important to the music. This is one reason I quit playing pro. I had gone well past the point of the music being a job and began to question is there any more to life as a musician other then being a Gladiator to the public and I eventually got my answer. I changed career paths because I wanted to explore the things I valued like writing and recording and haven't regretted my decision. I still play out but its not for the money or the glory. I do it because I like making others happy with my music. If I cant do that, then I probably don't deserve to be on a stage.

 

Anyway, when I meant pro, I'm talking about the people I know who play for a living. If you don't play for a living, You can imagine it as any day job where you work for the public. Even a waiter in a restaurant or a bartender knows what their role is. They work while other play and its their job to make their customers happy and sell them what they want. Their payment is money for that work.

 

What musicians do for pay goes well beyond what they get paid in nearly all cases. When you see them live you're often lead to believe they are millionaires. That's rarely the case however. What you see is usually the reflection of your own desire for them and yourself. The rest is all show. When I work with pros its not usually performing with them. Half the time I feel like a pawn shop broker when they need money. They'll sell me some gear cheap when they need money to pay the rent and when they're doing better they buy it back. They know I have a soft spot for fellow travelers because I been there and done that. I don't loan gear anymore though. Too many bad things happen and most musicians are a poor risk is anything happens to the gear.

 

I don't know how many see the differences between pro and amateur the way I do. I don't mean to impugn someone who has great skill or experience playing music. Its just the kind of experience you get banging on doors and scouring jobs to do earn that kind of living changes people. Some succeed, some crash and burn, and some are still slugging it out every day.

 

I choose to be kind to those who have the same kind of experiences I have because with all that public attention, musicians tend to be very loneliest people in the world and need to be supported, especially by those who know what they're up against because at the end of the night, all those so people you entertain are gone when it comes time to pack up. Its a compassion you develop being part of the brotherhood you joined when you chose to be a musician.

[Burgess]

This is the key to Smoke on the Water and why it usually sounds wrong when people play it. They play too many notes. It's just 2 notes in a tight inverted group that makes it sound so heavy and focussed.

 

Quoted for truth. And not to mention that a cranked Marshall will give you some great overtones.