Why does live music have to be so loud?

[stormin1155]

I went to a great concert a couple nights ago... Great, except that it was so loud that it was distorted and it hurt my ears. Maybe I'm showing my age, or maybe I hate it that I have severe hearing loss and tinnitus from years of loud sound, but why does live music have to be so loud?

 

I get it that part of the experience of live music is "feeling" it. I also get it that in small rooms you have to turn things up be heard above the drummer, and in large rooms and arenas it has to be loud enough to reach the people in the back. But when it is so loud that it is physically painful, leaves you temporarily deaf with ringing ears, causes permanent hearing loss, and sounds distorted on top of it all, that I don't get.

 

Yes, I do wear ear plugs, but why should I have to? At this concert they were actually giving out ear plugs. How stupid is that?! Why not just turn the sound down so you can actually hear and enjoy it.

 

Anyone with me on this?

[slvrsrpnt]

I was in bands and going to concerts since I was 15 (now 45) and didn't wear any hearing protection until I was in my mid 20's. I pay for it everyday with that lovely constant ringing in the ears. The only concert I attended semi-recently (Zappa Plays Zappa) that didn't require hearing protection was awesome. I heard all the instruments, there was a great clean mix and it was nice to not have that same painful, almost deaf felling you mentioned.

Seems the loudness is just wait folks seem to expect and I admit, it's fun to play really loud every now and then!

[WRGKMC]

Many concerts I've seen in the past 15 years have come down in decibel levels. I used to see allot of bands when I was younger and many were much louder. I only went to one concert where Todd Rungren with Utopia played where it was so loud it upset my stomach and had to leave the building for awhile. I had seen the band many times before in much bigger arenas and never had a big problem with their volume but in this case they were playing a smaller warehouse type club out in the sticks. Their sound system was overkill for the size of the place.

 

I'm sure the size of the place, the acoustics, and the band you went to see are a big factor. many of the concerts I been seeing are in places that either have house sound systems like the Reliant Stadium or The Woodlands Pavilion which is an indoor/outdoor venue. The Reliant is big and boomy and likely has its volume tested for best acoustics. The other has no walls so the sound isn't going to compress.

 

There was one other arena where I saw Springsteen and it was fairly loud but not ear bleeding. I don't choose tickets that are right in front of PA systems because I know I'll get flamed like a blow torch.

 

 

[Notes_Norton]

Volume is like a drug to musicians - and to the audience.

 

I wear ear plugs on stage, and try to keep the volume at 85db or less, but that won't get us re-hired if they want to dance. So I give them what they want.

 

It's fun to play loud, it's fun to feel the bass rattle your bones, but it's not good for you hearing.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[Caffeinated Cat]

I must be getting old because I'm finding it annoying too. I was at a small club the other night, everybody there just wanted to drink and talk to their friends, which of course nobody could do because of the two guys with guitars putting out 140 decibels. Nobody was even paying any attention to them anyways. Just annoying.

[jtr654]

It's the sound man most of the time. With a Low end at a extreme level this is where most of the damage happens.

[billybilly]

I don't know for many of the reasons mentioned above. Unfortunately, I don't go see live music any longer as a result.

[Virgman]

I can't take loud music anymore either and I used to stand right in front of the stacks when I was young. Somehow I escaped any hearing damage.

 

I never blast my amp at home.

 

I wear earplugs when I mow the lawn or use any loud tool.

[Chordite]

I now have permanent tinnitus and a big loss over 4k . I always got through that soft cutlery" 4k dip" phase in a day or two but now it is permanent with the constant whistling noise for 3 years. I already don't trust myself to mix recordings any more although the brain compensates.

When I was young plugs were just foam and distorted but since the advent of musicians plugs there is no excuse or sense in not using them. Buy a pair for 12 bucks off eBay and enjoy your music into your 70's without fear.

ps.

I will just add that what finished my hearing off completely after years of abuse was an old amp going into oscillation (not instrument feedback) during rehearsal. 100 watts at about 2 feet for 10 seconds was devastating, (a bit like Pete Townshend and the exploding drumkit,) you just don't know it's gonna happen, so wear plugs even when you don't think you need to.

Sorry if all this sounds preachy but every morning I wake up to that whistle and kick myself.

.

[Floyd Rosenbomb]

Loud volume is a way to compensate for a lack of feeling and depth in the music.

[Grant Harding]

I blame guitarists and drummers for the volume wars. Tube amps that "have to be cranked" to sound good and drummers that refuse to or are incapable of adjusting their style for a given mix. Singers are the worst victims in all of this. Try doing intricate harmonies with a Marshall stack in your ear.

[onelife]

Loud volume is a way to compensate for a lack of feeling and depth in the music.

 

 

The power is in the music not in the amplifiers.

 

I went to a Don Williams concert in a hockey rink. The sound quality was pristine and the volume reasonable.

 

I noticed that people were leaning forward in their seats as if they were being drawn to the music rather than having it shoved down their throats. It was a revelation that became a life altering experience.

 

My philosophy as a sound tech is to open up a channel for the music to come through. I don't "do sound" or "make the band sound good" as some people may describe the job. The musicians are the ones who sound good and my job is to make sure nothing gets in the way of or distorts the music.

 

Having lots of power ensures that, when the music requires it, there is enough available headroom that the sound system does not restrict the flow of musical energy that is being produced by the musicians but the power needs to be effectively and respectfully managed.

 

 

[DeepEnd]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one. The last live concert I attended was Trans Siberian Orchestra with my wife and it was loud. Even the drummer in praise band seems overly loud to me. Years ago, my wife and I went to an Ethiopian restaurant, the type of place that's half bar and half restaurant, and there was a band playing in the bar. The bass player was shaking the building. It was 'way too loud for the size of the venue.

[knotty]

I saw the stones, bigger bang tour in sheffield. The support was Paulo nutini (?) His volume was massive, made you feel physically sick.

The stones came on and I feared the worst but their volume was fine and the concert fantastic.

[Danhedonia]

I've seen somewhere over 10,000 live sets, most in clubs, and have the regretted hearing loss to show for it. I don't have anything to add to what has been said above except this: it DOESN'T have to be loud. In fact, in a decent venue (and I mean club, going to a show at a nice theater where folks pony up $100 a ticket is different) you can get a nice, clean mix and people can still hear conversation near them.

 

Of course, then there are the jackasses who go to shows only to talk over the music ....

 

[DeepEnd]

. . . Of course, then there are the jackasses who go to shows only to talk over the music ....

Completely separate issue but a while back I saw footage from some event or other. Tony Bennett was performing live and people were having conversations as if he were some lounge act. I wanted to scream at the TV: The man is a legend, for crying out loud. Show some respect.

[onelife]

it DOESN'T have to be loud.

 

[gardo]

Do you remember this exchange from Deep Purples' Made In Japan album ?

"The Mule" was played by Deep Purple during their 1971, 1972 and 1973 tours, and was recorded live for the Made in Japan album in August 1972. During this live performance, and most others, Paice played a 6 minute drum solo. On the recording heard on Made in Japan, Gillan starts the song by saying:

 

 

"Alright...everything up here...please. And a bit more monitor if ya got it."

 

[guitar noise] "Ah?" [echoing kettle drum] Ritchie Blackmore can faintly be heard saying, "You want everything louder than everything else?" then Gillan saying,

 

"Yeah, can I have everything louder than everything else...alright...ha ha"

And ends it with:

 

 

"Ian Paice on drums! YES!"

 

It's" More's Law"

If more is better then too much is just right.

[1001gear]

First rule of loudness is you have to be louder than the venue and the crowd.

Ideally you want it loud enough to burn out the audience until next years tour.

[Chordite]

Of course loud is not limited to Rock bands as Carol Williams ably demonstrates.

Enjoy

[video=youtube_share;9eXgr1yVCmY]

[wankdeplank]

I think when the Beatles played Shea Stadium it was the beginning of the end. After that is was rows of Marshall stacks, Big Arena and Festival shows and a sea of greenbacks. Greed may grease the wheels of capitalism but I'm not convinced that it's a good thing.

[knotty]

Of course loud is not limited to Rock bands as Carol Williams ably demonstrates.

Enjoy

[video=youtube_share;9eXgr1yVCmY]

 

I can be noisy when I'm practicing with my massive organ.​

[RGfretter]

My ears can't handle the massive db's. I have issues with my hearing (13 operations when I was a kid, 7 thru 12 years old) So I agree. Sound distorts heavily for me. I don't go to many concerts, and those I do are usually outdoor where I can sit way back.

[GAS Man]

I'm totally with you on this Stormin.

 

Examples, I went to see Los Straitjackets at a small club a while ago, and their tone and volume were just perfect. The sound was full, I mean, filled the room and filled you as listener. But later I went to a Dick Dale concert in the same place. I woke up the next morining with the most tenitus I've sufferered since the last time I fired a .44 Magnum hot load without ear protection. Also saw Man or Astro-man. and they were also blaring and distorted. And unlike their album, there stage playing was machine-gun chord smashing, only increasing the fatigue with no air in between. I also saw Devotchka and their tone and volume was perfect.

 

It is truly amazing how much better a show will sound if they simply just keep the volume right under blaring. And of course when it has been rough on my ears, I always found myself not having thought to bring ear plugs. But indeed, if that's the new norm, that's friggin nonsense. {censored}, even Buddy Guy put on a show that was distorted in the balcony beyond belief. Never would have expected that from a classic blues player. I mean, I've been to concerts back in the day like BTO, and they were not that loud.

 

Nah, we're not getting old, we just have some sense.

[BeanoBoy]

My wife and I recently went to a Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers show at Amalie Arena in Tampa. Steve Winwood and band, the opening act, were impressive both musically and mix/volume wise. We could hear every instrument ( Steve's voice, which was in GREAT form, was right out front) and the overall sound was clear and punchy. Petty and crew, not a Heavy Rock band on record, were WAY too loud. The drums sounded like mortars and the bass was a giant muffled mess. Benmont Tench's keyboards were barely audible and Tom's vocals very often were buried. Only Mike Campbell's fantastic guitar work shined thru. Pity, as Petty and the Heartbreakers played brilliantly but the volume was punishing. Similar story a few years back at an outdoor show with Cheap Trick, Heart and Journey in that order. Cheap Trick's mix was fine, Heart a bit louder, Journey a deafening, blurry mess.