Members gardo Posted September 9, 2014 Members Share Posted September 9, 2014 Which do you prefer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted September 9, 2014 Members Share Posted September 9, 2014 which ever suits more the sound I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 9, 2014 Members Share Posted September 9, 2014 Are we talking devices or terminology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted September 10, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 Are we talking devices or terminology? Terms , but mainly I'm just stirring things up a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 Whammy bar just throws a wrench in the works. I hate those things. Tuning and intonation shouldn't be so hard to maintain. Damn you to hell, Floyd Rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 I use Vibrato so that's what I call it. Sometimes with my fingers, sometimes with my Trem. I never dial in tremolo with a pedal or device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted September 10, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 I use Vibrato so that's what I call it. Sometimes with my fingers' date=' sometimes with my Trem. I never dial in tremolo with a pedal or device.[/quote'] I do the same but if you think about it it's using what Fender calls a tremolo to get vibrato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 Whammy bar just throws a wrench in the works. I hate those things. Tuning and intonation shouldn't be so hard to maintain. Damn you to hell' date=' Floyd Rose.[/quote'] Yeah, I'm not big on floating tremolos, vibratos, or whatever. Give me a hard tail any day. That said, I've been calling it a "trem" or "tremolo" but out of respect for the pedants I'll start calling it a "vibrato" (i.e., I blocked the vibrato on my Stratocaster because I find the cursed things to be insufferable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Virgman Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 Vibrato is the term used in the Hamptons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 I do the same but if you think about it it's using what Fender calls a tremolo to get vibrato Sure, I use my trem to make vibrato, I 'm okay with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members humbuckerstrat Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 Everybody knows that a vibrato bar is not a tremolo, but out of respect for Leo Fender, et all, everybody uses the terms "trem" and "tremolo" for the vibrato bar (and so do I [even though I know it's not accurate]). A whammy bar, whether its a Wilkinson, 6-point trem, 2-point trem, Floyd or Bigsby, is what I use for vibrato. I don't use my hand, wrist, or fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 While the two are different......I suggest anyone who is upset by the confusion.....get an amp with tremolo.....plug a guitar with a vibrato into it then play whammy bar while the tremolo is kicked in.....you'll quickly find out that it really doesn't matter what either one is called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DarkHorseJ27 Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 I call the bridge unit in question a vibrato bridge because that is what it is because that is what it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 The two terms are interchanged but there is a difference between them. Vibrato is the result of varying pitch, not the mechanism that does it. 1. a rapid, slight variation in pitch in singing or playing some musical instruments, producing a stronger or richer tone. A tremolo is the Mechanism that does the pitch bending. 1. a wavering effect in a musical tone, typically produced by rapid reiteration of a note, or sometimes by rapid repeated variation in the pitch of a note or by sounding two notes of slightly different pitches to produce prominent overtones. 2. a mechanism in an organ or amplifier producing a tremolo. 3. a lever on an electric guitar producing a tremolo. Tremolo is so close in its description to what occurs with the voice its natural to get them mixed up and I doubt anyone would care either way because you know what they mean by it. I remember them by the letter "V" stands for Voice and Vibrato, which is a term most Vocalists use. They rarely call their voice waver a tremolo. Tremolo is usually associated with a Whammy, Bending strings individually, Leslie cab or any device like an amp Circuit that bends the notes to produce a Vibrato. Bet way to use it use the two is, A Tremolo Produces a Vibrato. One item that doesn't really qualify as either and is often miss-labeled on Fender amps is their version of Tremolo. It doesn't bend notes, it just turns the sound on and off with an LFO like a strobe light. Its better off being called a vibrator then a tremolo or vibrato because it actually is a vibrator circuit, not a pitch bender, but again most people get it without having to be so technically accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 Vibrato is the term used in the Hamptons. Youre getting confused with Vibrator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 The two terms are interchanged but there is a difference between them. Vibrato is the result of varying pitch, not the mechanism that does it. 1. a rapid, slight variation in pitch in singing or playing some musical instruments, producing a stronger or richer tone. A tremolo is the Mechanism that does the pitch bending. 1. a wavering effect in a musical tone, typically produced by rapid reiteration of a note, or sometimes by rapid repeated variation in the pitch of a note or by sounding two notes of slightly different pitches to produce prominent overtones. 2. a mechanism in an organ or amplifier producing a tremolo. 3. a lever on an electric guitar producing a tremolo. Tremolo is so close in its description to what occurs with the voice its natural to get them mixed up and I doubt anyone would care either way because you know what they mean by it. I remember them by the letter "V" stands for Voice and Vibrato, which is a term most Vocalists use. They rarely call their voice waver a tremolo. Tremolo is usually associated with a Whammy, Bending strings individually, Leslie cab or any device like an amp Circuit that bends the notes to produce a Vibrato. Bet way to use it use the two is, A Tremolo Produces a Vibrato. One item that doesn't really qualify as either and is often miss-labeled on Fender amps is their version of Tremolo. It doesn't bend notes, it just turns the sound on and off with an LFO like a strobe light. Its better off being called a vibrator then a tremolo or vibrato because it actually is a vibrator circuit, not a pitch bender, but again most people get it without having to be so technically accurate. Well thats cleared that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 The two terms are interchanged but there is a difference between them. Vibrato is the result of varying pitch, not the mechanism that does it. 1. a rapid, slight variation in pitch in singing or playing some musical instruments, producing a stronger or richer tone. A tremolo is the Mechanism that does the pitch bending. 1. a wavering effect in a musical tone, typically produced by rapid reiteration of a note, or sometimes by rapid repeated variation in the pitch of a note or by sounding two notes of slightly different pitches to produce prominent overtones. 2. a mechanism in an organ or amplifier producing a tremolo. 3. a lever on an electric guitar producing a tremolo. Tremolo is so close in its description to what occurs with the voice its natural to get them mixed up and I doubt anyone would care either way because you know what they mean by it. I remember them by the letter "V" stands for Voice and Vibrato, which is a term most Vocalists use. They rarely call their voice waver a tremolo. Tremolo is usually associated with a Whammy, Bending strings individually, Leslie cab or any device like an amp Circuit that bends the notes to produce a Vibrato. Bet way to use it use the two is, A Tremolo Produces a Vibrato. One item that doesn't really qualify as either and is often miss-labeled on Fender amps is their version of Tremolo. It doesn't bend notes, it just turns the sound on and off with an LFO like a strobe light. Its better off being called a vibrator then a tremolo or vibrato because it actually is a vibrator circuit, not a pitch bender, but again most people get it without having to be so technically accurate. That's what I said further but less words. (Well...I didn't use "vibrator"...but I just might start! That hilarious!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 They even got it wrong back in 1957, Amplitude and Pitch are two different things and this shows you how the two terms have been mixed up From the description: Make like Elvis with an "electronic" throbbing guitar.~~http://www.rfcafe.com/references/pop...lectronics.htm A vibrato is a device which continuously and automatically varies the amplitude of the music at a low rate of speed. = False. That's simply volume automation If it did produce vibrato it should say, A Tremelo is a device which continuously and automatically varies the pitch to produce vibrato effect at a low rate of speed. = True Popular electronics was a great magazine for beginners back in the day but they often had these kinds of terminology mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 10, 2014 Members Share Posted September 10, 2014 Which do you prefer I bet youre really glad you asked now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted September 11, 2014 Author Members Share Posted September 11, 2014 I bet youre really glad you asked now. I was already cofused. My amp has a foot pedal labeled vibrarto and control knobs labeled tremolo. So it seems I should use the pedal if I want vibrato and the tremolo will create this effect,right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RGfretter Posted September 11, 2014 Members Share Posted September 11, 2014 The two terms are interchanged but there is a difference between them. Vibrato is the result of varying pitch, not the mechanism that does it. 1. a rapid, slight variation in pitch in singing or playing some musical instruments, producing a stronger or richer tone. A tremolo is the Mechanism that does the pitch bending. 1. a wavering effect in a musical tone, typically produced by rapid reiteration of a note, or sometimes by rapid repeated variation in the pitch of a note or by sounding two notes of slightly different pitches to produce prominent overtones. 2. a mechanism in an organ or amplifier producing a tremolo. 3. a lever on an electric guitar producing a tremolo. Tremolo is so close in its description to what occurs with the voice its natural to get them mixed up and I doubt anyone would care either way because you know what they mean by it. I remember them by the letter "V" stands for Voice and Vibrato, which is a term most Vocalists use. They rarely call their voice waver a tremolo. Tremolo is usually associated with a Whammy, Bending strings individually, Leslie cab or any device like an amp Circuit that bends the notes to produce a Vibrato. Bet way to use it use the two is, A Tremolo Produces a Vibrato. One item that doesn't really qualify as either and is often miss-labeled on Fender amps is their version of Tremolo. It doesn't bend notes, it just turns the sound on and off with an LFO like a strobe light. Its better off being called a vibrator then a tremolo or vibrato because it actually is a vibrator circuit, not a pitch bender, but again most people get it without having to be so technically accurate. Uh, no. Tremolo is a fluctuation of volume. Vibrato is a fluctuation of pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 11, 2014 Members Share Posted September 11, 2014 Uh, no. Tremolo is a fluctuation of volume. Vibrato is a fluctuation of pitch. Look it up in the dictionary or call it whatever you want. It really doesn't matter to me. I simply posted what's written in the dictionary and how its taught when you get a formal degree in electronics. If you want to call it something else, be my guest. Many names in electronics come from the original inventors. Its the ones who infringe on those circuits and make them popular that often get credit for something they didn't invent. Any good electronic tech will tell you Fender "admits" they improperly named their circuit "Tremolo" and since then a miss-used term has been adopted to mean something it isnt. There is nothing new about words changing meaning over time. Abuse a word long enough to where the population "gets it" and they add a line to the dictionary to explain it. Magnatone had a patent for the circuit which was a true pitch bending tremolo circuit. They called it Vibrato, a term used to explain the resultant sound, not the circuit that causes it. They could have just as easily called it tremolo, Wah, pitch bender or anything else if they wanted to. It didn't matter if they used the actual word improperly. They owned the patent and could call it whatever they want. People do this all the time selling products. They call Cyanoacrylate, Crazy glue, or super glue because most people cant pronounce the scientific term. They do the same thing with different circuits all the time. In the case of Fender, They used a multivibrator circuit to vary the volume. It was a budget version of the Magnatone circuit except it didn't bend the pitch and therefore didn't infringe on their patent. They named it Tremolo knowing it didn't bend the pitch and everyone has adopted the word to mean volume pulsing. But, that's not the scientific term for the circuit or what it does. Really, unless you've studied electronics and know your different circuits you wouldn't know the difference, It only matters to people who appreciate the inventors and think they are the ones who deserve the real credit. Tesla in the guy who invented the oscillator circuit used in everything from Guitar gear, to Moogs, to Radios and computer clocks. Armstrong was the first to figure out how to amplify with tubes and created the first tube oscillator. Leo Fender didn't know jack about electronics. He was a marketer. He hired techs to pull the circuits directly from a radio manuals and mass marketed them as guitar amps. What someone calls a knob really isn't that big a deal to me if you know what it does. You get people calling the knobs on stomp boxes all kinds of weird things just to be different. That doesn't make those circuits theirs. They just cash in on other peoples ideas. If you know what the box actually does, you don't even need a name for it. It does what it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RGfretter Posted September 12, 2014 Members Share Posted September 12, 2014 Look it up in the dictionary or call it whatever you want. It really doesn't matter to me. I simply posted what's written in the dictionary and how its taught when you get a formal degree in electronics. If you want to call it something else, be my guest. Many names in electronics come from the original inventors. Its the ones who infringe on those circuits and make them popular that often get credit for something they didn't invent. Any good electronic tech will tell you Fender "admits" they improperly named their circuit "Tremolo" and since then a miss-used term has been adopted to mean something it isnt. There is nothing new about words changing meaning over time. Abuse a word long enough to where the population "gets it" and they add a line to the dictionary to explain it. Magnatone had a patent for the circuit which was a true pitch bending tremolo circuit. They called it Vibrato, a term used to explain the resultant sound, not the circuit that causes it. They could have just as easily called it tremolo, Wah, pitch bender or anything else if they wanted to. It didn't matter if they used the actual word improperly. They owned the patent and could call it whatever they want. People do this all the time selling products. They call Cyanoacrylate, Crazy glue, or super glue because most people cant pronounce the scientific term. They do the same thing with different circuits all the time. In the case of Fender, They used a multivibrator circuit to vary the volume. It was a budget version of the Magnatone circuit except it didn't bend the pitch and therefore didn't infringe on their patent. They named it Tremolo knowing it didn't bend the pitch and everyone has adopted the word to mean volume pulsing. But, that's not the scientific term for the circuit or what it does. Really, unless you've studied electronics and know your different circuits you wouldn't know the difference, It only matters to people who appreciate the inventors and think they are the ones who deserve the real credit. Tesla in the guy who invented the oscillator circuit used in everything from Guitar gear, to Moogs, to Radios and computer clocks. Armstrong was the first to figure out how to amplify with tubes and created the first tube oscillator. Leo Fender didn't know jack about electronics. He was a marketer. He hired techs to pull the circuits directly from a radio manuals and mass marketed them as guitar amps. What someone calls a knob really isn't that big a deal to me if you know what it does. You get people calling the knobs on stomp boxes all kinds of weird things just to be different. That doesn't make those circuits theirs. They just cash in on other peoples ideas. If you know what the box actually does, you don't even need a name for it. It does what it does. Ok, I was just going by musical terms that have been used forever. Like Vibrato..as in a singers fluctuation of pitch is called vibrato. Is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GAS Man Posted September 12, 2014 Members Share Posted September 12, 2014 [video=youtube;MkrvfC4aYEs] I voted for the whammy bar (wiggle stick) thinking that "vibrato" might have been referring to a vibrato pedal. But yeah, I actually use "finger" vibrato more than the rest, but when it comes to electronic fx, I'm "trembolos" over a vibrato pedal. But even with tremolo, I don't have that many songs I play where I feel the need. Oh Pretty Woman is one, Crimson and Clover another, after that..... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted September 12, 2014 Members Share Posted September 12, 2014 Magnatone Vibrato: [YOUTUBE]75IWONwIkDU[/YOUTUBE] I own 9 of these Magnatones in various models. This was one I sold recently on Ebay for about $700 including shipping. I think after Ebay took their cut I got $600 for it. These vintage amps have kind of flown under the radar but it their day they were more expensive than Fenders. American made in the 50's and 60's. A few rockstars play them: Robert Cray, Lonnie Mack, Buddy Holly, Neil Young among a few others. This model is sort of similar in features to a tweed Deluxe with reverb and vibrato. Some Magnatones have stereo "pitch shifting" tube driven vibrato, spring reverb, hi-fi multiple speaker systems with crossover, and ultra linear transformers. The down side was that the cabinets were a bit fragile for touring, They were way more expensive than Fenders "per watt". And they were relatively heavy and didn't have a lot of raw power in relation to weight. Mostly because the complex effects and features required huge transformers to power all the tubes...and the stereo ones required two output transformers and multiple speakers which added weight. But you could also say they were ahead of their time. These days it's less often that you need an amp more than 30-40 watts because of better PA and recording technology. And the weight factor isn't an issue as much because some musicians are getting older and touring less. Recording and using these amps in the home more. And since they're relatively unknown they have lots of great vintage mojo and features without the heavy price tag. one other negative. They sometimes use odd tubes that are no longer being manufactured well. But tubing one up isn't so hard these days for the simple reason that these vintage tubes aren't in demand much. BTW one piece of folklore is that Leo Fender purposely mislabeled his "tremolo" amps with the word "vibrato" in order to better compete with Magnatone amps...which were also manufactured in California. He couldn't manufacture a true vibrato amp because Magnatone had a patent on their design. So he just used the word on front of his amps hoping to confuse the buying public. Taking it further...he called his whammy bar a "vibrato arm" to further confuse the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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