The Struggle with Guitar. This may get a little deep.

[Buzzm Frog]

Not sure if this is the best place for this topic but I know there have to be some people who can relate on some level. I know this is probably better for a mental health forum but I know that there are a number of musicians who struggle with issues like these.

 

I'm 30 and have been playing guitar since I was 13. For as long as I can remember, I've had a problem with tension. I honestly don't know if my speed in certain areas, such as down strokes and tremelo picking, have increased much since then. At this point, my right shoulder locks, my elbows hurt/tense, and I've developed cubital tunnel syndrome in my left elbow. At this point, my whole body gets tense.

 

I saw an orthopedic surgeon to know that's what I have in my elbow. I had several sessions with a physical therapist. None of that seemed to help. I was told I could get surgery for the nerve problem if I wanted to fix the elbow, but I don't have money for that and it's not a guarantee. Besides, there are the other issues of tension that go beyond my elbow.

 

Just for the sake of understanding the tension, I should mention that I have always had problems with OCD, depression, and anxiety. I've tried a lot of different methods to help with that.

 

I just started seeing a chiropractor who thinks he can help in a lot of ways but he's not 100% on the elbow. I've always considered acupuncture. It's just hard when I don't have a lot of money and my job doesn't offer decent health insurance.

 

This is all about the technical side and doesn't even get into the creative struggle but I have to focus on one thing at a time. Any insight whatsoever is very much appreciated.

 

[Richard Guy]

I wish you all the best. Maybe try over the counter 'glucosamine chondroitin'. Give your arms a break. Play some lap steel until the issue subsides.

[billybilly]

Sounds like you are not relaxing when playing, that is, your muscles are tense and rigid when playing. Groove more, play with feel and forget about technique so much and get used to relaxing while playing.

[ido1957]

Nobody on a guitar forum is going to be able to give you any reliable medical advice. That's why they have doctors. I hope you get a better job with medical benefits that can help address or at least reduce the symptoms.

[Chordite]

Try a change of instrument to say keyboard. You can buy a viable 90's yamaha synth for fifty bucks or less that will do passable piano / rhodes. The Yamaha PSR 290 is one I use as a backup for the Korg

It will give you a new thing that isn't stale and a completely different posture situation

[billybilly]

I disagree. People here are familiar with repetitive injuries associated with guitar, many doctors are not. Doctors don't know everything, seek advice from as many places as you can an make an informed decision thereafter for treatment.

[badpenguin]

I don't know.... the first thing to come to my mind when I read this, was "Stop." Stop trying to increase your skills, your speed, your Vulcan death grip on the guitar. Stop all the mental nonsense, and play the damn thing as what it's meant to be, a form of relaxation. Maker it enjoyable, and not some competition within yourself.

[Steve2112]

Nobody on a guitar forum is going to be able to give you any reliable medical advice. That's why they have doctors. I hope you get a better job with medical benefits that can help address or at least reduce the symptoms.

 

i ALSO DISAGREE. A doctor may be able to assess an injury but not in the context of guitar or musical instruments.

 

Badpenguin is correct...just STOP!

 

Mr Frog...you are getting caught up in some weird unattainable ideal. Can you dunk a basketball like Shaq? Throw TD's like Brady? Win tourney's like Tiger Woods? Walk on the moon like Neil Armstrong? Can you write a #1 book like Jackie Collins? Of course not.

 

But you can still shoot baskets. Can still toss a football. You can still swing a club. You can still write some asinine poetry. You can still enjoy it if it's enjoyable to you no matter WHAt level you attain.

 

What you do need is your @ss kicked. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Stop thinking because nobody cares it doesn't matter to you. Stop caring what other people think.

 

Do YOU care? What do YOU care about? What makes YOU happy? Keep in mind that the easy thing isn't always the RIGHT thing. We always want the easiest thing...the path of least resistance. Instant gratification. IF we don't feel HAPPY and adored NOW, then f it.

 

Well just stop. Not the way it works. If you enjoy playing guitar...then play. Put the work into it...achieve the level of it you want. If you'd rather play WoW...then do that. If you'd rather take some college classes...then do that. Just because you aren't a prodigy or rich from it, doesn't mean it's not of value. I think volunteering is a good way to get out of you self pity. Find a cause to improve. You'll find you don't have it all that bad.

 

When I was young my father once said "when you wake up in the morning...do you have all your arms and legs? Do you have you brain?". If so,,,then YOU control your destiny. Stop whining and crying and DO something." I didn't understand it then, he was just a big a sshole. But now I do. Instead of taking medicines....DO something.

 

Volunteer for the Vets and realize you don't have it all that bad after all.

[Buzzm Frog]

To all:

 

Thanks for telling me the things I needed to hear. While I understand the role of doctors, I wanted to hear what the people who have the heart for an instrument had to say. Also, you're absolutely right. About feeling sorry for myself, playing guitar for the sake of the enjoyment, all of the stress I've been putting on it...and everything. I did need some tough criticism, so, thank you.

[Danhedonia]

Some good advice, and one real whopper of bad advice: you do NOT need your ass kicked. If you are battling depression you need empathy, skilled care, encouragement, and perhaps medication. The notion that depression is "feeling sorry for oneself" should have gone out the window with homophobia and other forms of casual bigotry.

 

I do agree that the drive to attain some goal that you are apparently not reaching is self defeating.

 

Using anti-inflammatory supplements like chondroitin or MSM won't hurt, but I would really, really urge you to read some books about nutrition. Dean Ornish writes good, sensible stuff about food, and you'd be amazed how changes to your diet can have an enormous impact on everything from joint pain to moods. (note: that doesn't mean dietary change addresses depression. see: above)

 

I'd also recommend focusing on flexibility and thinking about doing some mindful meditation to reduce overall stress.

[Steve2112]

BTW...I have a broken wrist and arthritis. I have been taking Osteo Biflex and I really believe it has helped. Joints seem more fluid and adept.

 

Check out this link I posted on regard to a recent thread here!

 

 

 

[billybilly]

Some good advice, and one real whopper of bad advice: you do NOT need your ass kicked. If you are battling depression you need empathy, skilled care, encouragement, and perhaps medication. The notion that depression is "feeling sorry for oneself" should have gone out the window with homophobia and other forms of casual bigotry.

 

Right on Danhedonia. Sage advice.

[DeepEnd]

Heed (most of) the advice you've already gotten. If you can afford it, go ahead and let the chiropractor take a shot. OTC supplements aren't likely to do any harm (OTOH, they're not likely to help either). Meanwhile, I'll be praying for you, both your health and your job/insurance situation. Keep us all posted. We really do care what happens. BTW, a good doctor will be able to recognize repetitive stress issues whether he/she plays guitar or not.

[Steve2112]

Some good advice, and one real whopper of bad advice: you do NOT need your ass kicked. If you are battling depression you need empathy, skilled care, encouragement, and perhaps medication. The notion that depression is "feeling sorry for oneself" should have gone out the window with homophobia and other forms of casual bigotry.

 

I do agree that the drive to attain some goal that you are apparently not reaching is self defeating.

 

Using anti-inflammatory supplements like chondroitin or MSM won't hurt, but I would really, really urge you to read some books about nutrition. Dean Ornish writes good, sensible stuff about food, and you'd be amazed how changes to your diet can have an enormous impact on everything from joint pain to moods. (note: that doesn't mean dietary change addresses depression. see: above)

 

I'd also recommend focusing on flexibility and thinking about doing some mindful meditation to reduce overall stress.

 

I was speaking metaphorically.

 

Just needs a wake up call is all. Sorry if I offended anyone. I realize that "depression" is more than just "feeling sorry for oneself". However...it's my personal belief that it is a crucial element. It's a way of thinking that stands between you and the power to control your own life.

 

When I get depress I feel sorry for myself. Poor me. I have it so bad. Then I visit the children's hospital or the vets and it hits me that I don't have it as bad as I thought I did. I have no good reason for this sht and I need to stop "feeling sorry for myself" and get on with things that need done, be it work, yard work, playing guitar, swimming, biking- or volunteering my time and effort to people who really do have things bad...like cancer or missing limbs and real PTSD.

 

I fully concur that diet plays an important role. As soon as I gave up ice cream and soda...my health and well being improved dramatically. I'm no on a mission to give up "boxed"/prepared foods as well. I also had to force myself to swim and mounatin bike (after serious knee injury- I was feeling pretty damn sorry for myself- I can;t do it it hurts boo-hoo).

 

 

I realized that I can't play- can't pus sy foot around and talk nicey-nice. I had to be tough on myself. I still get depressed I still get social anxiety. But it's much easier to deal with if I stay physically and mentally tough. I believe if I can do it....anybody can. I have no special powers.

[knotty]

For what its worth I went through a similar period of frustration and doubt. Its nowhere near the level you are suffering but I thought my solution may help.

I simply sat down and looked at what I was trying to acheive. I started very late ( 54 ) and had to be realistic about what I could acheive. Taking into consideration my level of talent, commitment, time and aspirations.

I cant sing a note so that ruled out singing along to chords although I can play loads of songs which i could sing along to. I dont have time for a band or know anyone I can jam with. Apart from my lad when he's home.

So my playing was very insular. I needed somethig to fit those criteria. So now I work on some finger picking and surf instrumentals. I am and probably will only be a home player. I know my limits but have goals to match. If one day I can stand at an open mic.night that would be great. I would love to play like Jeff Beck but it aint going to happen.

Have you tried this exercise? Do you know what you are trying to achieve and why? Is it realistic? Dont compare yourself to the best until you're the second best. Small steps and targets. Try stopping for a month, isolate yourself from guitar and see how you feel about it.

Good luck.

 

[sammyreynolds01]

There isn't one person on this forum that hasn't had frustration at some point with playing. Your problem seem to come from playing with bad habits from the beginning. You need to let your injury heal and then after that work on your habits. When you resume playing get a teacher than will teach you good habits and to playing with tension. Good luck.

[wankdeplank]

I don't know, but after reading a few of these posts, I'm impressed with the IQ pool we have here. We may be a rather small group compared to some other forums but we've got a lot of great people with empathy and analytical thinking.

 

And to Steve, dude I know exactly where you're coming from. It's not insensitivity, just a matter of maybe being too direct, rather than PC - something I'm definitely guilty of sometimes. Dan's a smart guy and I think he'll agree that it's just a matter of semantics after your explanation. Not that there's not an art to framing our words in such a way as to avoid misinterpretation. And hey, it would be a pretty boring world if we all saw things exactly the same way in the first place.

 

So where was I, Oh yeah, party on Garth.

[MorganB]

Lighter weight guitars are better for your body, once you get under 4-5 lbs though you lose sonic quality, but stay away from the lead ones!

[WRGKMC]

All I can suggest is focus on your entire body's health. Your symptoms may be most apparent when you play, arms, elbow, neck, but chances are if you were doing other physical activities you'd have those same problems in other areas. In other words, take the instrument out of the picture and get back to basic health. Eat right and most importantly exercise daily. Once you start feeling better and go back to playing, don't overdo it. Several smaller sessions are way better then one big marathon.

 

One thing you'll need to give up is thinking you can use stress/power to get better. That energy may seems like it works, but its a dead end. Power is for weight lifters and even they pay a terrible price when they retire from that field attempting to maintain that health. Guitars don't need that kind of power to play well. Instead use aerobic exercises. Do multiple reps of riffs and chords to exercise the hand muscles and stop to rest frequently. Do it slowly without stress or effort like you are watching a movie in slow motion. Speed will come naturally if you do the reps enough times.

 

Lastly, Music doesn't have to ultra fast, ultra hard, or ultra anything to sound great. Bloody fingers are not the sign of someone playing well, Its a sign of someone at war with themselves. Adrenalin tapers off in your 20's so you must learn to use it wisely where it counts and only when you do have some to spare. Instead of driving hard, use craftiness instead. Seek out riffs and musical arrangements that have cool hooks that are fun to play and make you happy. Forget about what's popular. Put anything aside that bring on the symptoms of stress and substitute it with music that is a challenging to the mind and ears.

 

When you're in a rut, the only way to get out of it is break the cycle you're chained to and explore the freedom of trying something new. Music can harm just as much as it heals. Any music taken in moderation shouldn't have much affect on most people. If you're finding yourself depressed there's a good chance those lyrics you been listening to are painting a bleak picture in your minds eye. Change the record. There is music that can heal both players and listeners if they find the right music for what ails them. When you're in a rut its time to change you're listening and playing habits before it truly does become a chronic ailment that cant be cured.

 

Remember the old phrase, misery loves company. Ask a Pro Blues musician and he will tell you the song may have been written when he was feeling low, but its performed best by those with a joyous soul having overcome all the adversity that brought them so low.

[Virgman]

I suggest a complete head removal.

 

This will cure all your ills.

 

Seriously, just play to your abilities and stop trying so hard. We all have our limitations. There are superfast shredders who can't play the blues at all. Just think how sad they must feel.

[Danhedonia]

Steve, thank you for a civil reply. With equal sincerity, I encourage you as strongly as possible to reach an understanding between "when I get depressed" and dealing with clinical depression. We all have moods, and perhaps you have had acute depression (meaning temporary), but it is not at all equivalent to dealing with clinical depression.

 

My take is you would NEVER say to a person who shared that they were diagnosed with cancer "don't feel sorry for yourself," out of simple decency. Failing to see depression as a medical issue is ... well, not good. And inaccurate.

[Danhedonia]

... and phooey on me for detracting from the original point of the thread. Some great info in here:

* power is not always the answer. Technique responds to repetition, until you get a repetitive stress injury. That is called a personal limitation, and we must all accept we have them.

* Music really isn't satisfying when you are competitive about it, whether with others or a goal within yourself. It is most satisfying when it helps you reach others on a personal level. Focus on that.

* I love the "focus on the health of the whole body" quote. YES. I recently had to make some changes to my diet for reasons of heart health and weight loss, and was shocked at how a lot of the "little things" I thought were part of growing old (like arthritis, pinched nerves, etc.) started to evaporate when I dropped a few (and I mean 15, not talking a lot) pounds and got a bit more active. My biggest takeway from Dean Ornish's books (which were given to me by a friend as a kindness) was that food matters much more than we realize. Much, much more.

* Free your mind and your ass will follow. The old rule, right? It is probable that OP's struggles are interwoven, but similarly, the guitar playing is liable to be much more enjoyable if progress is made on the depression.

 

I wish OP the very best and tip my hat to the very bright and thoughtful people in the forum.

[Burgess]

I had cubital tunnel and carpal tunnel both on my left hand. Required surgery and I recovered fairly well. I don't have the stamina for a 5 hour gig anymore but I've done a couple of 90 minute sets since then with no drama. There are some post here somewhere with more detail about my surgery if you want to dig them up.

 

I also started playing at 13 but my problems surfaced actually not so long ago, after I had been playing for more than 30 years. I was taught by a jazzer so I actually have decent technique posture, positioning, all that. I just don't think our wrists are built to take the type of abuse the modern player (post 70's) put on them and eventually a price is paid. I've been diagnosed with carpal tunnel on my right wrist and surgery is recommended. It's getting harder to do every day things like handle eating utensils so I know surgery is inevitable.

 

And for some of you guys that don't know me very well, I can tell you that I've never been frustrated by my own playing. Even on the days when I'm not at 100% I can find some pleasurable passages that are not necessarily blasting away in top gear. It doesn't always have to be pressing to the brink of your abilities to be enjoyable. Even when I first picked up a guitar a didn't even know how to play it, I was always able to find joy in the fact that it was me that was able to actually make the instrument produce a a musical note. I just thought that was the greatest thing, I still do!

[Steve2112]

Steve, thank you for a civil reply. With equal sincerity, I encourage you as strongly as possible to reach an understanding between "when I get depressed" and dealing with clinical depression. We all have moods, and perhaps you have had acute depression (meaning temporary), but it is not at all equivalent to dealing with clinical depression.

 

My take is you would NEVER say to a person who shared that they were diagnosed with cancer "don't feel sorry for yourself," out of simple decency. Failing to see depression as a medical issue is ... well, not good. And inaccurate.

 

I agree there are different levels of depression. I guess I *DO* come from old school thought- as you noted except I don't hate gays. LOL?

 

Fact is many people that overcome cancer DO NOT feel sorry for themselves. They are fighters. They will tell you they found resolve and strength...not just medical care.

 

Also agree that some depressions require professional help. But if a guitar player comes HERE, and mentions it...well he's gonna get some street advice. If it is "clinical", then this is not the place to "get deep" with it.

 

I am sorry you do not agree with my opinion. It's not black or white. Some people can battle through whatever level on their own. Others might never be truly cured no matter how much professional help they receive. In the middle are a vast majority of people that use a mixture of the two philosophies.

 

All I can say is just about everything I've ever accomplished I did because of resolve and strength. Be it refurb an entire bathroom by myself for the first time (no contracting experience! I actually had to go buy many of the tools I used). Learning guitar at 22 yo with a busted up left wrist. Coming back from ACL repair to win weekend warrior mountain bike competitions (that was with a good surgeon's help!) to battling (in your words) non-clinical depression to fighting social anxiety. Heck just getting up every day and going to WORK!

 

No special powers. No Einsteinian brilliance or Herculean physique. And no excuses (usually...lol). I believe inner resolve and strength resides in everyone*, just a matter of finding and using it.

 

*Granted- there are some people with extreme disabilities...but even then they often do better than "norm" with what they have to work with. My cousin has Down's...he's 50 years old...and that man is a joy to be around. Challenging...but a joy.

[Floyd Rosenbomb]

One of the best things we can do for ourselves is to learn how to relax.

 

How are you going to relax?

 

Here are some things that I've learned over the years:

 

1. Take a walk in nature once a week. I don't know why this works, but it does wonders.

 

2. Try some type of exercise every other day or so. This helps to work the stress out of the body. Swim, jog, walk, bike, whatever you like.

 

3. Learn to meditate. Not some new age silliness, just to focus your mind on this moment with your breath. Our bodies are always in the moment but our minds are often focused on the past or the future.

Meditation is simply re-rooting the mind back into this moment of life, in harmony with the body, breath, and the world/environment around us. Just be at peace with it all for a little bit each day.

 

4. Yoga. I had a bad car wreck over 10 years ago (driver side door). I couldn't afford a doctor but I could afford a book on yoga. I worked at it and it has been a huge help with pain and bringing balance into a lot of areas of my life.

 

5. If you are depressed at all you have to stop using drugs and alcohol. Alcohol literately depressed your nervous system and it takes weeks for your nervous system to make a full recovery from one nights worth of drinking. You don't even have the chance to begin feeling great until this effect wears off.

 

 

It's your life, you can make it great by the choices you make. Try to make good choices each day. It will add up down the road.

 

 

 

P.S. Smile, life it short.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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