Harmony Central Forums
Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Tone Wood Followup

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse









X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    I still think we are talking minor, minor differences.
    ‚Äč
    The bottom line for me is. If the guy that does the mixing for my boy and his band ever says he cant give the mix or sound we want, because his Strat is made of the wrong wood. We find a new studio.
    Don't pick a fight with an old man,
    If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.


    '' Who, me Officer?''

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by knotty View Post
      I think with my limited resources I could make it indistinguishable. Thats my point. I think I can make anything sound like mahogany or ash etc etc. So in that respect wood don't matter.
      Yep, you think that. We get that.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by juicyjones View Post

        Yep, you think that. We get that.
        Good. Glad your listening. A bit of a waste of your alt account though.
        Don't pick a fight with an old man,
        If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.


        '' Who, me Officer?''

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Freeman Keller View Post
          I'll say once more that I really appreciate all the work to post the clips and I think that I got something out of the discussion. I'm proud of the fact that I got one of the guitars right based on what I thought it should sound like. However it also brings up another little problem for me

          I'm ready to build something that will look like a Les Paul Junior and I was going to chamber it, mainly to reduce the weight. When I go to the clips, the chambered Tele was my least favorite (and in fact I guessed it wrong because I expected a different sound from the chambering). So now I'm wondering if I really want to go thru all the effort of hogging out the body.

          And of course, the real question, if I take away all those pores is the guitar going to sound fat?
          In my experience, Hard layers of wood (The Rings that come from the bark of the tree as it grows) have tougher harder fibers which conduct higher frequencies better then the softer pulp between these layers. If you have more soft pulp between the wood layers I'd think you would have a darker tone and if the rings are harder and thicker you'd have more sustain and a brighter tone.

          I suspect its the combination of those two that are responsible for how fat an instrument sounds. I'm not sure I like the word fat to describe wood tone forever. Its not a very scientific term and it leaves a wide range of interpretations. Does it mean it sounds bassy, Compressed, tight, lacking mids, fuller frequency response, or is it just the tone of thick wood? There's no specific definition of that word and its usually associated with amplification and recording. A full sized humbucker usually provides more mids and low ends to make it sound fatter then say a single coil which produces more mids and highs.

          http://en.audiofanzine.com/guitar/ed...tar-sound.html

          Thin on the other hand usually describes a lack of bass or bass and Mids. When you look at a photograph of people standing together, the fat guy takes up the most space left to right. In a stereo recording a fat guitar fills a wide area left to right within the stereo field. It may or may not have a wide frequency response. That's why I don't choose it as a good description of wood tone. An acoustic guitar has a much wider frequency response then an electric, but since its highly dynamic, it doesn't sound as fat as it would if it were compressed and had the highs rolled off.

          That tele, its made of some of the hardest wood I've ever dealt with. That walnut was highly petrified and I burned out a dremmil bit cutting the pickup holes in the thing, so that's likely a bigger cause of the brightness then it being hollow inside.

          I think its going to be a matter of how much you route the cavity out. If you leave a solid plank in the center where the pickups and bridge mount You'll likely retain more of the solid body mahogany tone those guitars produce. If you were to hollow it all out its going to sound allot different. In mine I left a much smaller wood block between front and rosewood back. In retrospect, I should have used the Rosewood which I softer and more musical on the front.

          I think this would have made for better tones. When you strum the instrument you hear deeper sound coming from the back of the guitar then the front. If you think of a Snare drum that has the thinner brighter tighter head on the bottom, and the deeper sounding head on top, it may have given it that deeper tone. The top cap in a semihollow build seems to dominates the sound because you don't hear as much reflection off the back like you do an acoustic. Pickups receive allot of direct vibration from whatever its mounted to and the initial transients tend to be greater if its hollow under them.

          The guitar does sound unique however and sounds best cranked. Its has allot of tight jangle and I can get some nice tones from it.

          The idea of using only a block of wood for the bridge came from another build of mine. I have an old 60's Teisco semi hollow body I bought off EBay. I didn't realize the back was missing when I bought it. The top at least was made from maple. Not sure about the sides. I didn't want to invest allot of money in it so I cut a back for it out of 1/4" Birch plywood and glued it all together. I got lucky because that gave the instrument some of the warmest rhythm tones. Cranked up the body is highly microphonic because of the rare Shadow Humbucker pickup in the neck position. In the bridge is a Mighty Mite PAF which is an excellent classic rock pickup.

          Normally you'd want an electric to "not" be microphonic to avoid feedback from the speakers, but in this case I broke all the rules. I swapped about 10 different pickups before I found that particular combination.

          Add to that the back is thicker, and since it contains more air pockets it absorbs a generous amount of high frequencies leaving mostly midrange. When you crank the instrument with the back of the guitar facing the speaker cab, the vibrations of the speaker hit the back, pass through the wood block to the front of the guitar and cause the bridge to vibrate very easily.

          At low clean volumes I can get a nice acoustic tone from it. When I crank it up the strings begin to self sustain at very low volumes. I suppose the design mimics the human ear in many ways. The back acts like an ear drum, the wood block acts like the bones in the ear, and the front of the guitar with the microphonic pickup acts like the ears cochlea that contains fluid and nerve fibers to generate the signal to the brain as the fluid vibrates. The instrument can be noisy however. You have to use good playing techniques when its cranked however. If you bump the body with it cranked up you can hear that through the pickups. Finger squeaks and even your skin rubbing the body can be heard. This is mostly when the Microphonic pickup is turned up however. The PAF in the neck position is closer to the wood block and is not microphonic, so I can dial up the Rhythm pickup for just the right amount of acoustic tone needed.

          Shaddow like Fishman is known for making great elements for acoustic and jazz instruments. That particular Humbucker is a very rare bird. I couldn't find anything on it goggling. In most cases you avoid microphonics by potting the pickup in wax. I cant be sure if they made that pickup that way intentionally or accidentally because they aren't into building electric pickups. Maybe it came out of some old Jazz guitar and its microphonic to capture the bodies acoustic tones.

          In any case, my goal building the Tele with only a wood block connecting the front and back was to mimic what the Teisco design. Unfortunately (or fortunately) the front is much more rigid and the woods resonance is a higher pitch. The body of the Teisco becomes excited with A notes which will self resonate the easiest. E, and D are intervals which also sustain easily. The Tele body becomes excited with chords a whole step up from the Teisco. It has a strong B note resonant body tone with F# and E as the two major harmonic intervals. When cranked up I can get different notes to sustain then I do from the Teisco which is good because not all music is in the same keys.
          Last edited by WRGKMC; 08-15-2014, 07:03 AM.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Freeman Keller View Post
            I'll say once more that I really appreciate all the work to post the clips and I think that I got something out of the discussion. I'm proud of the fact that I got one of the guitars right based on what I thought it should sound like. However it also brings up another little problem for me

            I'm ready to build something that will look like a Les Paul Junior and I was going to chamber it, mainly to reduce the weight. When I go to the clips, the chambered Tele was my least favorite (and in fact I guessed it wrong because I expected a different sound from the chambering). So now I'm wondering if I really want to go thru all the effort of hogging out the body.

            And of course, the real question, if I take away all those pores is the guitar going to sound fat?

            My Les Paul is chambered and sounds plenty fat.
            I get Fatter tone on a full moon which I put down to the extra gravitational pull on the strings. I cant play It in my conservatory though as the neck bows towards our oak tree.
            On some days the tone is little thinner but I put this down to the dog pi55ing on it while its on the stand. Thinner people get less wet in the rain.
            It is particularly good at Gary moore tones, this is because its painted blue.
            I can get brighter tones by using a yellow pick though. Even thinner with titanium reinforced human bone.
            It is particularly good at g notes but I have to change guitars very quickly when I need to play f because in f the grain pattern makes it sound like a trumpet. This is because of a particularly wet february in the trees 14th year, always an f killer.
            My only wish is that they rotated the grain of the maple top 3.8 degrees before they glued it on. That ruins it for me.
            Don't pick a fight with an old man,
            If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.


            '' Who, me Officer?''

            Comment



            Working...
            X