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Why I don't own a Strat


gardo

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Because I've never given them a chance.

If I ever really played one , I mean more than just picking one up at the store, I probably would own one

But it would have to be noiseless.

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You may be to lazy to do proper maintenance. Then you will think it's the strats fault it will not stay in tune. :)

 

Good point. Too lazy or more likely just not knowing what it needs

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Because I've never given them a chance.

If I ever really played one , I mean more than just picking one up at the store, I probably would own one

But it would have to be noiseless.

 

I have a friend with the same attitude.

 

But, if the Strat isn't your thang, then it isn't your thang, you know? Just let er go.

 

Me? Sunburst strat with rosewood board is THE definition of the electric guitar. YMMV.

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I do own a Strat (well, a Fernandes knockoff) and I wish I didn't. It's heavy and I don't care for a trem, especially the way it affects tuning stability. Granted part of that is me coming from an acoustic background but still . . .

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I got four of em (one MIA, two MIMs and one MIJ) and I don't get this tuning instability stigma they seem to be getting around here. I can bend notes to death, and use the trem (I don't divebomb) the way the good Lord intended it (vibrato quivers) and none of em budge even the MIMs (my MIMs are 90's Fender Squier Series with cut rate tuners). Trust me, all of my Strats stay in tune better than my friend's $2,000 Gibson Les Paul with the tulip tuners.

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You may be to lazy to do proper maintenance. Then you will think it's the strats fault it will not stay in tune. :)

 

Same point, different day.

 

It is the Strats fault and has nothing to do with being lazy.

The fact is that Strats have tuning issues.

"Issues" is defined subjectively by the user, i.e. me.

 

 

my general definition of a "Strat" within the context of what we all understand a Strat to be:

 

First, a Strat is a guitar that has a stock nut or modded Tusq XL nut, but not a locking nut.

Second, a Strat has a floating trem. That is how that trem system was designed to be used.

I appreciate that people have come up with all sorts of jerry rigged solutions to the tunnig issuses on Strats, but they each take away functionality from the original purpose of a floating trem. This would be things like blocking and decking.

 

So yeah, one can play a Strat and not find much problem with tuning stability. But if you are someone who actually uses the trem in any kind of modern way that trems can be used, then you find that there is a imprecise nature to this systems design. This is precisely why Floyd Rose invented his contraption, and why players choose to solve this problem by decking their trem or blocking it off all together (which is really weak sauce).

 

You will never go to a show and not see a Strat player with a floating trem (who uses it) retuning after each and every song. Even with the best bands with guitar techs.

 

I get that one can get by with a Strat, but the compromise is that you always have to F- with it. This is not the case with trems that utilize locking nuts and saddles. These guitars simply don't go out of tune no matter what you do to them.

So there is your contrast. One system that is rock solid, and one that you accept regularly F-ing with.

 

That is "tuning issues" as defined by me.

The most perfectly set up Strats got it, other guitars don't.

 

You can look at a guy like Jeff Beck, too. He uses the whammy bar a lot. What did he do about this problem?

He had roller nuts installed on his guitars. These guitars also have locking tuners. So, this is actually a good solution to the tuning issue on Strats. On Fender's own website they sell LSR roller nuts and it reads, "LSR roller nut reduces friction that can [does] cause tuning instability." Roller nuts are not that common on guitars and it is more of an aftermarket mod to the Stratocaster. I don't lump those guitars in with stock Strats.

 

I'm just talking 99.99% of stock Strats.

They got tuning issues. Deal.

Other then that, I like them well enough, but give me a floyd rose type trem any day over a 6 screw or 2 point Fender trem.

 

There is more to talk about here, in particular as to why decking is a crummy solution and the science of what exactly is causing the tuning instability issues on the Fender system.

Maybe someone will pickup that stream below.

 

 

Happy tuning.

 

 

 

 

bzlevine-085_.jpg

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I got four of em (one MIA' date=' two MIMs and one MIJ) and I don't get this tuning instability stigma they seem to be getting around here. I can bend notes to death, and use the trem (I don't divebomb) the way the good Lord intended it (vibrato quivers) and none of em budge even the MIMs (my MIMs are 90's Fender Squier Series with cut rate tuners). Trust me, all of my Strats stay in tune better than my friend's $2,000 Gibson Les Paul with the tulip tuners. [/quote']

 

People are tuning wrong. They tune and yank. This is fine at first. But you have to let the guitar settle into it's natural tuning position. I used to have trouble with my Wilkinsen, but I figured out that (after break in) if I press down on the bar, let it come back up naturally- and tune it THERE...that's where it will always come back to. In my experience, if I kept tugging the strings...it would pull it out of it's natural tuning site.

 

Anyway...it's not a strat but it works well for my trem.

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In what way?

 

I was kidding sort of. At one point, I looked at my small collection and realized all my guitars were carved tops. That is until I added a Tele.

 

Les Paul

Brian Moore (a unique curved top)

Mockingbird

Old USA Harmony Hollow

 

I realized I favored the raised position of the strings in relation to the body top. Actually have a little bit of trouble with a strat due to being so close to the body and the way my wrist settles. The Tele might be curing that because I've been going to it a LOT!

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Same point, different day.

 

It is the Strats fault and has nothing to do with being lazy.

The fact is that Strats have tuning issues.

"Issues" is defined subjectively by the user, i.e. me.

 

 

my general definition of a "Strat" within the context of what we all understand a Strat to be:

 

First, a Strat is a guitar that has a stock nut or modded Tusq XL nut, but not a locking nut.

Second, a Strat has a floating trem. That is how that trem system was designed to be used.

I appreciate that people have come up with all sorts of jerry rigged solutions to the tunnig issuses on Strats, but they each take away functionality from the original purpose of a floating trem. This would be things like blocking and decking.

 

So yeah, one can play a Strat and not find much problem with tuning stability. But if you are someone who actually uses the trem in any kind of modern way that trems can be used, then you find that there is a imprecise nature to this systems design. This is precisely why Floyd Rose invented his contraption, and why players choose to solve this problem by decking their trem or blocking it off all together (which is really weak sauce).

 

You will never go to a show and not see a Strat player with a floating trem (who uses it) retuning after each and every song. Even with the best bands with guitar techs.

 

I get that one can get by with a Strat, but the compromise is that you always have to F- with it. This is not the case with trems that utilize locking nuts and saddles. These guitars simply don't go out of tune no matter what you do to them.

So there is your contrast. One system that is rock solid, and one that you accept regularly F-ing with.

 

That is "tuning issues" as defined by me.

The most perfectly set up Strats got it, other guitars don't.

 

You can look at a guy like Jeff Beck, too. He uses the whammy bar a lot. What did he do about this problem?

He had roller nuts installed on his guitars. These guitars also have locking tuners. So, this is actually a good solution to the tuning issue on Strats. On Fender's own website they sell LSR roller nuts and it reads, "LSR roller nut reduces friction that can [does] cause tuning instability." Roller nuts are not that common on guitars and it is more of an aftermarket mod to the Stratocaster. I don't lump those guitars in with stock Strats.

 

I'm just talking 99.99% of stock Strats.

They got tuning issues. Deal.

Other then that, I like them well enough, but give me a floyd rose type trem any day over a 6 screw or 2 point Fender trem.

 

There is more to talk about here, in particular as to why decking is a crummy solution and the science of what exactly is causing the tuning instability issues on the Fender system.

Maybe someone will pickup that stream below.

 

 

Happy tuning.

 

 

 

 

bzlevine-085_.jpg

 

One thing to consider though....about your "weak sauce" point.......cause as someone who decks his strat's trem (and doesn't use it) I'm taking it personally...lol....is that strats with a trem produce a different tone and feel than a hard tail. In my experience anyway...I don't think hard tail strats sound like "strats". I have my floyd guitars for trem use....but I want THAT strat sound...the sound with a trem....yes I could use a strat with a floyd but I don't care enough to seek out a 50's ash/maple style with nitro finish that has a floyd...hard to find...in fact..I'd go as far as saying nobody makes that kind of strat with a floyd that would be as good as the one I have.....and I'm NOT modding the one I have.

 

 

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Same point, different day.

 

It is the Strats fault and has nothing to do with being lazy.

The fact is that Strats have tuning issues.

"Issues" is defined subjectively by the user, i.e. me.

 

 

my general definition of a "Strat" within the context of what we all understand a Strat to be:

 

First, a Strat is a guitar that has a stock nut or modded Tusq XL nut, but not a locking nut.

Second, a Strat has a floating trem. That is how that trem system was designed to be used.

I appreciate that people have come up with all sorts of jerry rigged solutions to the tunnig issuses on Strats, but they each take away functionality from the original purpose of a floating trem. This would be things like blocking and decking.

 

~SNIPPED FOR LONG_WINDED SPACE~

 

 

Happy tuning.

 

 

 

 

mg]

 

 

Wow...You qualify your whole argument on "stock" strat? Aren't strats coming "stock" with locking tuners? I had thought some strats come with LTs..but maybe I am wrong. I don't see any issue with modifying the guitar and still being a "strat". Just like a humbucker still makes it a strat right?

 

Locking tuners still makes it a strat. Lots of guitars have them now so it surely must NOT be just a strat issue. You mentioned Jeff Beck...and his strat comes with locking tuners. That makes it "STOCK". Sure it's a sig model....but you can get it w/o a "special order".

 

Like I said...locking tuners make sense on ANY guitar and not just on a strat so...seems like you might have some dog in this fight the way you insist on qualifying your argument.

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Like I said...locking tuners make sense on ANY guitar and not just on a strat so...seems like you might have some dog in this fight the way you insist on qualifying your argument.

 

I'm going to split a tiny hair on this one....

 

I've got a carvin with a floyd and it has locking tuners and quite honestly they are totally unnecessary.

 

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Basically he's saying that a standard Strat as it was designed by Leo Fender has tuning issues. I agree. I have a few Strat-like guitars that have improvements...but yea a stock strat I never touch that whammy bar. It'll knock everything out of tune.

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Strats vary greatly in quality and you cant blame the faults of a budget Strat (that may be owned by an inexperienced player/maintainer)

as being the same for your high quality Strats. Even on your best Strats there's a number of things you have to keep balanced. Just changing string brands or gauges can cause a number of items that need to tweaked.

 

A floating trem is actually very easy to set and when it is set to float and checked between string changes it remains fairly stable. You just tune to pitch, pluck the G string using a tuner, and pull up on the bar. The tail should rest on the body at an A notes (one whole step above G) if its sharp, you tighten the claw. If its flat you loosen the claw. That's it. Once the float is right, you can set your string height and intonation. If those were tweaked much, then you go back and check the float again.

 

Once that has been set, then its just a matter of string slippage. If the nut doesn't bind and the strings slip properly it wont grab the strings and prevent them from coming back to pitch. The other item is making sure the strings don't slip on the tuning pegs or unwind on the ball end. I always use a dab of crazy glue on the ball end and make sure its dry before installing strings. This way any issue with the ball ends slipping is eliminated. Then you just have to be sure you do the over and under knot on the tuning peg to prevent string slippage.

 

Other than that you may have to use some graphite powder under the blade so the blade comes back to a neutral position

 

This is some extra work you have to do getting the strings installed so the strings don't detune using the whammy. You also have some string stretching you need to do so thats not an issue.

 

If all those bases are covered the strings will remain in tune even after vigorous trem use. If you don't do those things then a strat can be major sour grapes after one dive bomb. Its the nature of the animal. You should also note, trems were invented when guitar strings were much heavier. 12's and 13's with a wrapped third were the norm and a whammy allowed those strings to be bent for a Hawaiian guitar sound. If you use very light strings, getting the strings to come back to pitch can be much harder to achieve. Someone who uses .009's that doesn't have the best mechanical skills may get fed up with tweaking things and just block the trem and wang it all the way down.

 

Thin flexible green wood necks can also be a huge problem. Their relief flattens out when the trem is pushed down and may not come back to the same relief right away. It may take a few seconds for the relief to stabilize and may remain flat in pitch. In my own collection I have 4 stats with trems. The two with Maple necks are not set to float. The necks are thinner and the necks don't come back to pitch very well. I have one with a rosewood neck that sounds better with the trem flat and the other is my floater. It remains in tune no matter how much I mess with the trem.

 

Having a floating trem does make string bending very different too. You have to bend the strings a whole lot more to bring them up to pitch and when you do, the other strings go down in pitch. If you do allot of country/blues bends where you bend one string and hold a second string down that gets plucked after the bend, that second string can be flatter than normal with the first string bent to pitch. Much of this will depend on weather you use 2, 3 or 5 springs in back. The more springs, the less of this effect occurs, but too much can damage the whammy bar socket or bend the bar.

 

Beyond that, a strat can be more difficult to get good clean tones if you're used to say a Gibson type build. The strings produce allot of upper mids and highs and if you have a sloppy playing technique its surely going to stand out like a sore thumb. Even driven you have less mud and noise to hid behind. If anything I'd say a player must be more precise playing the instrument with both the left and right hands. The pickups produce a tone that requires a consistent left hand dynamics picking. If you loose concentration and pick lighter the pickup output can drop drastically and get buried in the music.

 

Like I said, its just a unique animal. You do have to play them for awhile to develop a good playing technique using one and if you're used to say a humbucker guitar, dialing up good tones with single coils can be an additional challenge. But who doesn't like being challenged getting new tones? If you don't then just stick with the same kind of build.

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Wow...You qualify your whole argument on "stock" strat? Aren't strats coming "stock" with locking tuners? I had thought some strats come with LTs..but maybe I am wrong. I don't see any issue with modifying the guitar and still being a "strat". Just like a humbucker still makes it a strat right?

 

Locking tuners still makes it a strat. Lots of guitars have them now so it surely must NOT be just a strat issue. You mentioned Jeff Beck...and his strat comes with locking tuners. That makes it "STOCK". Sure it's a sig model....but you can get it w/o a "special order".

 

Like I said...locking tuners make sense on ANY guitar and not just on a strat so...seems like you might have some dog in this fight the way you insist on qualifying your argument.

 

 

It seems as though you miss read my post. I was speaking of locking nuts, not locking tuners.

 

I.E.

pads-1.jpg

 

I did speak on locking tuners within the context of a LSR roller nut, but those nuts are certainly not stock on 99.99% of all Strats.

Locking tuners with a stock Strat nut still = tuning instability.

 

Locking tuners with a locking nut = irrelevance because the locking nut has already done the job.

 

 

 

LSR Roller nut,

 

 

lsr-roller-nut.png

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I'm going to split a tiny hair on this one....

 

I've got a carvin with a floyd and it has locking tuners and quite honestly they are totally unnecessary.

 

Not splitting hairs...you are right! I should have "qualified" my statement...non locking-nut guitars?

 

Locking tuners make sense on any non-locking nut guitar.

 

Thanks for the correction!

 

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Basically he's saying that a standard Strat as it was designed by Leo Fender has tuning issues. I agree. I have a few Strat-like guitars that have improvements...but yea a stock strat I never touch that whammy bar. It'll knock everything out of tune.

 

To be fair...I have had other non-fender and non-strat- style guitars that don't stay in tune. Usually the blasted 3rd string.

 

So...but hey whatever. Not a big deal to me. Just trying to keep good information going for searchers, surfers and lurkers.

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I was in the same boat. Hadn't really given them a thought. One day, I started to feel like I was missing something in my arsenal. Started really looking into Strats and found one that I love. I use the trem, but mostly for subtle vibes (except the one song where wobbling the last note of a riff has become the fun part of the riff...)

 

I think any guitar can suffer from setup issues. I don't have any issues with tuning stability. Of course, if I dive bomb the trem, it's going to cause issues, but if I wanted a guitar to do that with, I'd get one with a more hefty trem..

 

It's great to have the tonez in my options at the ready, too!

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It seems as though you miss read my post. I was speaking of locking nuts, not locking tuners.

 

I.E.

> [img]png

 

Goodness..it does appear that I did misread. My apologies! Here at work I only have limited time.

 

Maybe it was the part where you said it's a "good solution". The locking tuners certainly are that! I don't think it was a design flaw as Leo didn't have that kind of technology. There's also still nut binding.

 

I am sorry but I did detect a bot of a "mission" on your part. Like I said...tuning issues are not just for strats. That pic youi posted of Jimi hit me wrong because the great majoirty of time all you have to do is pull that string a little bit rather than retune every time.

 

Someone also noted that maybe some people like ONLY that sound of the original design. 3rd string (or whatever) hangups not a big deal. I really like the way my BMG Sperzel/Wilky system works. Not quite as taut as a floyd ...still bombastic if you want...but also easy as well.

 

BtW...I am a BIG fan of Floyds. Not just for tuning stability but I like the big platform for my palm.

 

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I have a strat that had a Floyd like system on it that had the fender brand name on it.

It wasnt bad when it was new. The threads on the fine tuners started stripping out so I eventually dumped it and the locking nut and put a standard tailpiece on it. The tone definitely changes and now has less steel and more wood tone. The tuning stability really hasn't changed and its actually easier to deal with.

 

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... I can bend notes to death' date=' and use the trem (I don't divebomb) the way the good Lord intended it (vibrato quivers) and none of em budge even the MIMs [/quote']

 

and this, my friends, is the key. You wouldn't dive bomb your steeering wheel and expect to stay on the road.

I am considering putting "limiter blocks on the trem so it can only move 'so far' and nor enter the zone where it slides strings through the nut.

Maybe Leo should have done that but NB I don't think 'dive bombing' existed in 1954 when he was drafting the design.

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Locking tuners do not solve tuning issues on any way whatsoever. They are to make string changes faster and easier. If you are using them to help stabalize tuning issues, you have been mislead and you are doing it wrong. Now, locking nuts on the otherhand, that is a different story.

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Have you seen this video? Carl Verheyen shows you the secret of strat floating trem setup.

 

Iy-F7iSIopA

 

It works. I can get all the intervals shown in the video.

 

But I'm also using a SuperVee Bladerunner. That helps further.

 

Then make sure you are wrapping your strings around the tuners like this for maximum stability.

http://uncletim.com/Newsletter/how-to-string-a-guitar.htm

 

 

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