Larry Thomas stepping down as Ceo from Fender

[sammyreynolds01]

http://musicconnection.com/fender-ceo-larry-thomas-stepping/

 

Ok if you were CEO what would you change?

[gregsuarez75]

http://musicconnection.com/fender-ceo-larry-thomas-stepping/

 

Ok if you were CEO what would you change?

 

Thing #1: pickguard protective plastic would not require major surgery to remove - removing screws, knobs, and using an x-acto knife to trim around hex nuts... that would be a thing of the past.

 

Then I would quit the company with my golden parachute and lifetime of free guitars and exclusive NAMM access pass.

[Bucksstudent]

What I want hardly represents what would benefit the company nor the majority of guitarists.

 

1. Bring back MIJ products into the main Fender lineup. It makes little sense for Fender to not sell their MIJs in America as another option because there will always be people wanting MIA models.

 

2. Lower MIM prices. We're manufacturing in Mexico to cut down on costs, right?

 

3. Lower high end Squier prices. We manufacture in China to cut down costs, right? Why would anyone would to pay $400 for a Squier? The resale value is automatically lower than MIMs in the same price range due to bias against the Squier brand.

 

4. No Custom Shop Signature models. Either the consumer gets what the player has, or they don't get it at all. Make MIM versions of the higher end models, and raise the prices of the MIA signature models.

 

5. No more low end American options below the Standard. Make the Standards more affordable. Specialty guitars such as the Jazzmaster will either be MIJ or MIM, and MIAs will be Custom Shop and made on an order by order basis ala Rickenbacker.

 

6. Stop introducing so many different variations of the same thing in lower end markets such as Squier and MIC. Make Squier Bullets for beginners, and make Standards for lower income guitarists, and any Classic Vibes or variations will be $250 street price. Make all MIC guitars higher than $250 Fender MIC.

 

7. Focus less on variations like the Modern Player line and more on making more past products available.

 

8. Solderless pickups should be the future. Embrace it.

 

9. Affordable signatures or inspired by guitars, such as a Hendrix strat, Jimmy Page tele, etc.

 

10. Boss is coming out with their own modeler/synth with a specialty pickup at a lower price than Roland. Offer a Fender modeler that has licensed models from all variations of Fender amps. There should be a Squier brand of cheaper pedals to compete with the lowend trash you see at department stores (Lyon by Washburn) and cooler pedals like Danelectro.

 

11. More signature basses.

 

12. Stop branching out into more non-music related products like wine. Focus on clothing and accessories.

 

13. Produce a Richard Thompson signature model.

 

14. Require buyers to be able to spell your brand and product names, such as Squier and not "Squire."

 

15. Go into bankruptcy because I don't know what I'm doing.

[brandass]

Outstanding post! Bravo!!!

[gregsuarez75]

What I want hardly represents what would benefit the company nor the majority of guitarists.

 

1. Bring back MIJ products into the main Fender lineup. It makes little sense for Fender to not sell their MIJs in America as another option because there will always be people wanting MIA models.

 

2. Lower MIM prices. We're manufacturing in Mexico to cut down on costs, right?

 

3. Lower high end Squier prices. We manufacture in China to cut down costs, right? Why would anyone would to pay $400 for a Squier? The resale value is automatically lower than MIMs in the same price range due to bias against the Squier brand.

 

4. No Custom Shop Signature models. Either the consumer gets what the player has, or they don't get it at all. Make MIM versions of the higher end models, and raise the prices of the MIA signature models.

 

5. No more low end American options below the Standard. Make the Standards more affordable. Specialty guitars such as the Jazzmaster will either be MIJ or MIM, and MIAs will be Custom Shop and made on an order by order basis ala Rickenbacker.

 

6. Stop introducing so many different variations of the same thing in lower end markets such as Squier and MIC. Make Squier Bullets for beginners, and make Standards for lower income guitarists, and any Classic Vibes or variations will be $250 street price. Make all MIC guitars higher than $250 Fender MIC.

 

7. Focus less on variations like the Modern Player line and more on making more past products available.

 

8. Solderless pickups should be the future. Embrace it.

 

9. Affordable signatures or inspired by guitars, such as a Hendrix strat, Jimmy Page tele, etc.

 

10. Boss is coming out with their own modeler/synth with a specialty pickup at a lower price than Roland. Offer a Fender modeler that has licensed models from all variations of Fender amps. There should be a Squier brand of cheaper pedals to compete with the lowend trash you see at department stores (Lyon by Washburn) and cooler pedals like Danelectro.

 

11. More signature basses.

 

12. Stop branching out into more non-music related products like wine. Focus on clothing and accessories.

 

13. Produce a Richard Thompson signature model.

 

14. Require buyers to be able to spell your brand and product names, such as Squier and not "Squire."

 

15. Go into bankruptcy because I don't know what I'm doing.

 

​These are a lot of good points, and a good conversation. I have been a "Fender guy" since I got my first Strat in 1992.

 

1. You can get MIJ guitars at some American retailers, they're just not terribly common. I have seen some Aerodynes and such at Sweetwater.

 

2. I think Fender needs to put the brakes on the pricing of all models. The price increases over the past few years have been pretty alarming. That said, I think the pricing of the MIMs are pretty much spot on. If you're a newbie you can get a Squier. If you need a solid instrument at a fair price, you have the MIMs. If you have a little more to spend, get the American Special. If you want a very good instrument that you can pass on to your grandchild, there are the American Standards. And if you really want to go balls out, there are the American Deluxes and above. I would buy a MIM Fender any day of the week before I buy one of Gibson's low-end USA guitars - those things play and feel like they're made in Guatemala alongside where they cut and bag cocaine.

 

3. Is there such a thing as a "high end Squier?" Just kidding. I think Squiers have a lot of value compared with low end garbage from Ibanez and LTD. I believe Fender prices some Squier models a bit higher to entice people to get into MIMs.

 

​4. I understand the value of the Custom Shop signature models, however I would likely not buy one since they're all cosmetically pre-distressed, which I hate. I like the way Music Man handles their signature models: price them a little higher than a Fender USA signature model, but make each one so spot-on perfect that, as Steve Morse puts it, he can walk into any guitar shop and pick up one of his signature models off the rack and be ready to gig with it.

 

5. I really agree with this point. The American Specials might be made in the U.S., but they have hardware and electronics that pretty much beg to be replaced and upgraded immediately. Plus, no hard-shell case. The American Standard Strats used to be $999, and that felt right to me. The American Standards have very solid components, great craftsmanship, and a hard-shell case. These should be the models Fender rallies around and pushes the hardest.

 

6. I agree in principle, but I think Fender already does a great job of this. You want a product catalog full of confusion and way too many different versions of the same thing? Check out Gibson. I don't know what in the world is happening over there, but they need to seriously refocus their product line to make it more efficient. Gibson's brand management sucks hard.

 

7. Something like this needs to be constantly monitored for market demands. I do think some of Fender's products have been hanging around too long, though. Personally, I would love to see at least one American Stratocaster offered with a Floyd Rose option (with an Original Floyd Rose model). I know that Floyds don't sell as well as they did in the '80s, but a lot of people still buy double locking guitars. The MIM Strat that's available now has a junky licensed FR and only 21 frets.

 

8. A fundamental shift in a design that has been working for more than a half-century takes a heck of a long time to change. However, doesn't the new American Deluxe Strat Plus use solderless pickups? I own one of these, but I have not dissected it. The wiring system is modular, which is how it can use the changeable profile cards.

 

9. Fender drops one of these every now and then. I think if they released too many of them or released them too often, they would lose their special appeal. Personally, I would love to see a Richie Sambora signature model come back (star inlays and Floyd Rose). An affordable version of the Gilmour Black Strat would also be welcomed. But Fender keeps these guitars expensive on purpose. It's the same reason Mercedes doesn't release budget models to compete with Chevy. It's all about cachet and upkeeping the prestige of the brand.

 

10. Fender already has the Starcaster knockoff Strat junk that is sold at Best Buy and Kmart. If the market is interested in lower priced, Boss-powered Squier guitars, I'm sure Fender will develop it. Although, I think they prefer to keep the "new tech" stuff under the Fender brand name to demonstrate innovation for the brand.

 

11. Yeah, I agree with this. But bass players are usually not as well known, household names as guitarists. Plus, there is less opportunity to personalize a bass like there is a guitar. There aren't as many unique pickup options, bridge options, etc. I mean, look at the Geddy Lee J Bass: aside from the block inlays and Badass Bridge, it's pretty much a black or sunburst MIM J Bass. The Duff McKagan P Bass is basically a MIJ P Bass with no pickguard, a black painted neck/headstock, and Seymour Duncan pickups.

 

12. This can be a problem for a company if it ends up losing focus on its core products. I'm not sure it's affecting Fender's core operations, but it does seem a little bizarre, almost like an executive's pet project that happened just because he said so.

 

13. I have no idea who this is. Please don't hurt me. Fender should make a David Gilmour 80s/90s signature Stratocaster in Candy Apple Red, tinted maple neck, and EMG pickups. This would be a sweet complement to the DG Black Strat, especially since David's red EMG Strats have a different tonal characteristic from the Black Strat.

 

14. Agreed. I don't know how "Squier" came to be, but the misspelling irritates me. It's like calling Fender "Fendre."

 

15. HAHA! One person cannot sink a company Fender's size. There would be a lot of people who would either go down with you, or make sure you were set adrift on an iceberg.

 

With all of that said, I think we're all ignoring the biggest problem with Fender: the torturous process of removing the pickguard plastic from new guitars! That is a nightmare that must end!!!

 

[soundcreation]

I would realize my market is going to dry up in the next 20 years. I would shift focus away from being a "lifestyle" brand...scale down production and concentrate on maximizing the quality of each product at each price point.

 

Fender has come a long way since the very bleak CBS days....but they still don't make as great a guitar as they are capable of....in my opinion.

[gregsuarez75]

I would realize my market is going to dry up in the next 20 years.

 

 

Can you explain what you mean, here?

[soundcreation]

 

 

Can you explain what you mean, here?

 

The guitar buying market is going to die. Actually from reports I've heard it's already started. Apparently fender is not doing that well. It's why they've panicked and tried to shift their focus to a "lifestyle" brand...selling people jeans and shirts and as mentioned wine and other such nonsense. Gibson is the same.

 

Basically if you look at who buys guitars you're going to see that it's the baby boomers who fueled most of the buying over the past 20 years. Buying the guitars of their hero's with disposable income they generated. Gathering "collections" of guitars at whatever price point they could afford. There is no way current production numbers can be sustained. Baby boomers are going to die soon and all their guitars will flood back onto the market used.

 

Now there are segments of the younger generations....X'ers and Y'ers/millennials (like myself) who are into guitars and consume a fair amount of them. But no where near the numbers the boomers did and still do. Plus those "iconic" companies like gibson and fender really don't mean as much to us. We grew up thinking charvel's jackson's esp's and ibanez' were every bit as good. Plus the younger generations just aren't that into rock like the older ones. They are more open to other forms and don't hold the guitar in as high regard. Plus our numbers are simply smaller. There are WAY less of us. It's really simple math.

 

So as mentioned....what's fender going to do when tens of thousands of fenders of USA standard level up to custom shop guitars, that were made from the late 80's to the present, come back on to the used market when the boomers die? Their values will plummet in my opinion...making them as cheap as new guitars at lower price points. Why would anyone, then spend 3 to 6 hundred on a MIM fender when they will probably be able to get used USA made fenders for the same or less? And that doesn't even begin to consider all those used MIM fenders that will be out there. People probably won't even be able to give those away in 20 to 30 years....lol..

 

 

 

[Danhedonia]

Many times, CEOs step down when they are given instructions by a board that they don't want to carry out. As a longtime Fender fanboi, I hope this is not the beginning of the end.

 

The "what would you do?" question is a dual one for me: there's what I'd do if I really were CEO and needed to show profitability, but then there's what I wish I could do as fantasy owner. Two lists:

 

If I were really CEO:

 

1. Amp up the lifestyle marketing. When your core product market tapers/drops, you leverage your brand and try to sell what you can. My guess is that the margins on baseball caps is a lot better than on MIM Teles. Additionally, as commodities (like retail guitars) are deflating in value, experience type purchases rise in value. So: more Fender fantasy camps, more Fender meet and greets ... experiences for fans to contact the brand's history.

 

2. Have a massive and thorough sit-down with Guitar Center to restructure that relationship. Particularly around cashflow, exclusivity, etc.

 

3. Probably reduce sales staff. Doesn't FMIC have massive market position at this point?

 

4. Realign product families to focus on marginal profitability. If we are not selling a lot of MIJ Jags, why are we shipping them across the Pacific?

 

5. That said, perhaps go to more of an automobile-type production model: local assembly plants with worldwide parts-specializing shops.

 

6. Immediately raise the price of each guitar $20 and improve QC to whatever level that permits. This # could be tweaked, but the goal would be to have the acknowledged 'best beginner's instrument' in the marketplace. Currently a crapshoot with whoever's brand on whatever Cort was CMC'd that month. Feh.

 

 

Fantasy CEO:

 

1. Immediately cease all the BS marketing stuff related to instruments ... too many models with "special" hardware / components / etc. that are a simple attempt to achieve collectability. To me this is disrespectful to their customers.

 

2. As with other posters above, I'd clean up the product lines yesterday. Too many MIC / MII / MIK guitars flying the Fender brand instead of Squier. Just creates a muddle.

2A. Speaking of muddle ... TOO MANY LOW-END MODELS. Reduce.

 

3. Bring back US Standards for all of the traditional models. It's ridiculous that I should not be able to get a US Standard Jazzmaster for $1,000 - $1,100 street.

 

4. Improve the availability of different 'looks' across the remaining product lines. Getting a paisley Tele should not require an act of God.

 

5. Goodbye, $129 Starcaster starter pak. Really; if this is necessary to survive, let's just all put on purple Nikes and head for the Great Beyond.

 

6. Increase guitar prices (ducking) a few shekels to improve QC (see: #6 above). This would be a great "defense" move for the brand's value.

 

7. Get my amp team to come up with a terrific "first serious amp" model, street priced around $600. Tube, two channels, one clean and one not and for God's sake finally commit to doing a good dirty channel. Have a handwired version available for $1,100. And do a real SS version for those who prefer that. Fender's current amp lineup is excellent but almost entirely retrospective in it's approach to sound with the exception of lower cost amps that are not competitive with Roland's JC's. Get it done.

 

8. Reduce production. It's a great mystery where all those Squiers wind up, but we all assume that landfills grab their share. End this. It's the right thing to do ecologically, and that's important. It also has turned guitars into fashion accessories in the minds of much of the public, vs. serious instruments.

 

9. Work with Gibson (if that is ever possible) to attempt to create a standard platform for plug n' play parts under the pickguard. Not just pickups, but pots and switches could be more interchangeable. This could and should lead to a secondary modding market for FMIC that is likely more sustainable and profitable over time (as it is a lot easier to sell a pot at good margins vs. a guitar body).

 

10. Tangerine metal flake. I'm just saying.

 

11. Call up all of my favorite guitarists and invite them to jam. After all, who can turn down the CEO of Fender? Let's call this my "Imelda shoe moment."

 

Fewer product lines with more logic to them, greater flexibility with the models that remain, and a deliberate step towards NOT being "lowest common denominator" when it comes to quality. Fender should aim to be the brand that costs a little more, but absolutely gives you something rock solid - and lets you contact the brand history.

 

This world doesn't need another million Starcasters. It needs a few thousand US Standard Jazzmasters.

[gregsuarez75]

 

The guitar buying market is going to die. Actually from reports I've heard it's already started. Apparently fender is not doing that well. It's why they've panicked and tried to shift their focus to a "lifestyle" brand...selling people jeans and shirts and as mentioned wine and other such nonsense. Gibson is the same.

 

Basically if you look at who buys guitars you're going to see that it's the baby boomers who fueled most of the buying over the past 20 years. Buying the guitars of their hero's with disposable income they generated. Gathering "collections" of guitars at whatever price point they could afford. There is no way current production numbers can be sustained. Baby boomers are going to die soon and all their guitars will flood back onto the market used.

 

Now there are segments of the younger generations....X'ers and Y'ers/millennials (like myself) who are into guitars and consume a fair amount of them. But no where near the numbers the boomers did and still do. Plus those "iconic" companies like gibson and fender really don't mean as much to us. We grew up thinking charvel's jackson's esp's and ibanez' were every bit as good. Plus the younger generations just aren't that into rock like the older ones. They are more open to other forms and don't hold the guitar in as high regard. Plus our numbers are simply smaller. There are WAY less of us. It's really simple math.

 

So as mentioned....what's fender going to do when tens of thousands of fenders of USA standard level up to custom shop guitars, that were made from the late 80's to the present, come back on to the used market when the boomers die? Their values will plummet in my opinion...making them as cheap as new guitars at lower price points. Why would anyone, then spend 3 to 6 hundred on a MIM fender when they will probably be able to get used USA made fenders for the same or less? And that doesn't even begin to consider all those used MIM fenders that will be out there. People probably won't even be able to give those away in 20 to 30 years....lol..

 

 

 

Interesting conversation.

 

If this scenario comes to pass, I doubt Fender's "lifestyle" offerings will somehow save it. I mean, they're not exactly American Eagle. I'll bet they find some way to get into the pre-owned market. If it truly gets bad enough for them, they might start a program of buying back from the pre-owned market the most popular/unique of their own instruments and reselling them in some sort of "Best of Our History" program. That would be a complicated and expensive undertaking (to say the least), but the pre-owned market for many expensive consumer goods is getting massive in light of the global economic woes... video games, cars, and even musical instruments.

 

Selling directly to the customer might also be promising, if they lower their prices to match retailers. I like their "Build Your Own American Fender" program, but it has two big problems: 1) it takes 90 days to receive your build, and 2) the guitars end up costing unreasonably more money than an American Standard model, even though they are mostly made up of American Standard parts and finish options. Given the limited finish and hardware options available through the program, I don't understand why Fender doesn't have a whole warehouse full of finished bodies and necks and all the hardware needed, and when an order comes in, the guitar is assembled and shipped. Maybe tack on an extra $100 or so for the "custom build" process, but there is no reason a "custom built" Strat through that program (in, say, a black finish with standard pickups and hardware) should cost $400 more than a black American Standard Strat with all of the same components.

 

But it is sad how the younger generation finds more satisfaction in Guitar Hero than in learning to play a real guitar. It must be attributable to laziness. I can't think of any other reason. It takes effort to learn to play guitar, but the payoff is so worth it. When I first started playing guitar in 1991 when I was a sophomore in high school, I was so desperate to keep playing and keep practicing so I could get better and better. It never, ever felt like work to me. My evenings and weekends (when I was not working) were spent with my Strat. I remember many Saturday nights after coming home from my job spent watching Saturday Night Live while furiously playing my guitar.

 

When my nephew was 8, he got a starter acoustic guitar (a Squier, in fact) because he wanted to learn to play guitar just like his Uncle Greg. I spent a lot of time trying to teach him, but he just wouldn't pay attention during lessons and he wouldn't practice. After a few weeks, my sister-in-law asked me how he was progressing, and I told her he just won't pay attention. She said he complains that since he's not good right now, he gets frustrated and quits playing. I don't doubt this is a fairly common scenario for a lot of kids getting into an instrument. The good news is he joined his school band last school year and is playing electric bass. He seems to be taking to bass very well, and more than a year later is still sticking with it. But he's 12, and the music he listens to is the modern pop crap that de-emphasizes guitar. I'm hoping he will grow out of this as he gets older. I did successfully get him into Van Halen, so that's a start.

 

Hopefully the guitar market will pick up again if popular music swings back into traditional rock bands, instead of pre-packaged corporate pop acts. Music tends to be cyclical, so hopefully the tide will turn again. But a lot of high school kids (even today) still discover bands like Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, and The Beatles. Although, it's my understanding that now bands like Nirvana and Pearl Jam are considered classic rock and "retro" by high school kids. It makes me feel old, but at least the guitar bands are being kept alive. And whenever I venture into my local Guitar Center, I do still see mostly teens and 20-somethings jamming. They seem to mostly prefer the "heavy metal" guitars like Schecter and Dean, but at least they're playing. My age (nearly 40) and older are the ones looking at the "vintage" style guitars like Fender and Gibson. That's probably why these brands can get away with higher price tags. But if the tide turns, so will Fender's and Gibson's pricing and manufacturing strategies.

 

These are smart companies - they'll adjust.

 

 

[Grantus]

1. More models that aren't Strats and Teles.

 

2. More seafoam green.

 

3. More amps with modern features like attenuators and effects loops.

 

4. More short-run guitars. I've heard Paul Reed Smith say more than once that the guitar-buying public these days always wants something new. You have to be constantly introducing new models, or new features, new colors, whatever. I think the future may be in short runs. Here's a Strat or a Mustang or a Starcaster, whatever, with these special features, and it'll only be available for so long.

 

Many of the ideas here are good as well. Slimming down the product line is a good idea, there are too many variants of the same damn guitar (mainly Strats and Teles).

 

I generally disagree with the people who suggest Fender should go high end. I think it should keep a high end for the baby boomers/rich collector types, but I think the future of mass guitar buying is on the lower end -- indie bands, the shrinking number of kids interested in guitar. Most 15-year-olds or 23-year-old indie band guys aren't going to buy a $1500 guitar.

 

So Fender should keep around some variant of its Modern Player/Blacktop/Pawn Shop lines, although consolidate a bit.

[BG76]

Move everything branded Fender, Gretsch, Guild, etc... back to America - no exceptions.

 

Make the Custom Shop what it originally was - a small operation that builds to order. No production models.

 

Make the classic models - Strat, Tele, Jazzmaster, Jaguar, Mustang, etc.... Any "new" models bearing the Fender name would be USA made (as stated above) and done in limited quantities to ensure quality and that prices stay high.

 

For amps, all tube American made with classic features - which is what people buying a Fender amp want. Maybe use another brand name (Sunn?) to make more modern amps.

 

All Japanese, Korean, Iranian, etc.... garbage would have the Squier name. They could also use Heartfield or one of the sub-brands as well.

 

Hire Henry J as a consultant to figure out how to restore the brand.

 

I love old Fender guitars and I really like some of the things up to about 95/96. The brand is now a bunch of imported junk. Hopefully they fold and someone who cares about the brand gets them. CBS was a Godsend compared to the people running things now.

[Bucksstudent]

Move everything branded Fender, Gretsch, Guild, etc... back to America - no exceptions.

 

Make the Custom Shop what it originally was - a small operation that builds to order. No production models.

 

Make the classic models - Strat, Tele, Jazzmaster, Jaguar, Mustang, etc.... Any "new" models bearing the Fender name would be USA made (as stated above) and done in limited quantities to ensure quality and that prices stay high.

 

For amps, all tube American made with classic features - which is what people buying a Fender amp want. Maybe use another brand name (Sunn?) to make more modern amps.

 

All Japanese, Korean, Iranian, etc.... garbage would have the Squier name. They could also use Heartfield or one of the sub-brands as well.

 

Hire Henry J as a consultant to figure out how to restore the brand.

 

I love old Fender guitars and I really like some of the things up to about 95/96. The brand is now a bunch of imported junk. Hopefully they fold and someone who cares about the brand gets them. CBS was a Godsend compared to the people running things now.

 

Dew what?

 

Look at Apple. No one would be able to afford an iPhone or iPod if it were made in America, including Apple. A majority of Fender's profit comes from those overseas manufactured products like the Squiers.

 

They do make the classic models that you listed. And why would you want prices to stay high? If the baby boomer guitarists are slowly dying away, then who is going to buy a new Fender guitar for $2000 that isn't one of the classic models?

 

Not everyone buying a Fender amp want classic features. Their highest selling amp is the Hot Rod Deluxe.

 

Fender Japan is not in the same realm as Korea, and I've never seen an Iranian one. The current Squiers are made in China and Indonesia. The lower end Modern Players are made in China. Fender Japan caters mostly to Japanese players, and many Westerners agree that MIJ is either as good or better than current MIA. So, it's hardly garbage.

 

I'm assuming that you're joking about Henry J, who is doing his best to ruin the Gibson brand.

 

You don't have to buy the "imported junk." There are plenty of new American models and used MIA to go around.

[knotty]

Its over supply. The numbers of guitars made, I dont know where they all go.we should have 20 each and the world would still be 3 foot deep in them. Them and golf balls.

[BG76]

 

Dew what?

 

Look at Apple. No one would be able to afford an iPhone or iPod if it were made in America, including Apple. A majority of Fender's profit comes from those overseas manufactured products like the Squiers.

 

They do make the classic models that you listed. And why would you want prices to stay high? If the baby boomer guitarists are slowly dying away, then who is going to buy a new Fender guitar for $2000 that isn't one of the classic models?

 

Not everyone buying a Fender amp want classic features. Their highest selling amp is the Hot Rod Deluxe.

 

Fender Japan is not in the same realm as Korea, and I've never seen an Iranian one. The current Squiers are made in China and Indonesia. The lower end Modern Players are made in China. Fender Japan caters mostly to Japanese players, and many Westerners agree that MIJ is either as good or better than current MIA. So, it's hardly garbage.

 

I'm assuming that you're joking about Henry J, who is doing his best to ruin the Gibson brand.

 

You don't have to buy the "imported junk." There are plenty of new American models and used MIA to go around.

 

We're not talking about computers. A company like Apple spends billions more then Fender because they're in the business of technical innovation, whereas Fender is in the business of selling instruments.

 

Iconic brand names are incredibly valuable because of their history. Where Fender used to stand for a great American company that made an iconic product. Now, they sell imported copies.

 

You are absolutely right that the oversees junk makes a huge profit. However, this doesn't mean that they help the brand. Use the lower end name (Squier) for all this stuff.

 

Gibson, Rickenbacker, Carvin (to a lesser extent, as it's a different business model) have all proven that an American companies can do really well. Fender's financials are not all that spectacular making 500 junk models all over the world. It's sad that most guitar players don't even realize the great guitars they used to make when they judge the new stuff.

 

buys Just my opinion, I like to see American companies employing American workers and I like the brands I grew up really liking being quality. I'm also the type of person who will pay for quality instead of a low price.

[Grantus]

 

We're not talking about computers. A company like Apple spends billions more then Fender because they're in the business of technical innovation, whereas Fender is in the business of selling instruments.

 

Iconic brand names are incredibly valuable because of their history. Where Fender used to stand for a great American company that made an iconic product. Now, they sell imported copies.

 

You are absolutely right that the oversees junk makes a huge profit. However, this doesn't mean that they help the brand. Use the lower end name (Squier) for all this stuff.

 

 

 

What's the value of a brand when you're bankrupt because you won't sell instruments that cost less than $1,500?

 

[Bucksstudent]

 

We're not talking about computers. A company like Apple spends billions more then Fender because they're in the business of technical innovation, whereas Fender is in the business of selling instruments.

 

Iconic brand names are incredibly valuable because of their history. Where Fender used to stand for a great American company that made an iconic product. Now, they sell imported copies.

 

You are absolutely right that the oversees junk makes a huge profit. However, this doesn't mean that they help the brand. Use the lower end name (Squier) for all this stuff.

 

Gibson, Rickenbacker, Carvin (to a lesser extent, as it's a different business model) have all proven that an American companies can do really well. Fender's financials are not all that spectacular making 500 junk models all over the world. It's sad that most guitar players don't even realize the great guitars they used to make when they judge the new stuff.

 

buys Just my opinion, I like to see American companies employing American workers and I like the brands I grew up really liking being quality. I'm also the type of person who will pay for quality instead of a low price.

 

Are iPhone and iPods computers? They're made with expensive components that cost a lot in labor. Fenders made in China use the same basic components as their American counterparts, but cost less because they're made overseas. It's not necessarily a quality factor. Chinese people are just as human as the "Americans" in California. When you buy American, you're paying for a worker's healthcare and benefits; not necessarily quality, though.

 

Fender still makes American guitars, and people still buy them. You're forgetting that Gibson makes imported models too, but under a different name. That doesn't make them a better company than Fender at all.

 

You're basically arguing that the name "Fender" doesn't mean what it used to anymore. Well, nouns change over time. Fender isn't owned by the same people they were in the fifties, sixties, or seventies. Neither is Gibson. They have to move forward with the times like Apple or Microsoft. Before the iPod, I didn't know anyone who had an Apple product. Every computer I used was Microsoft based. Then Apple comes out with a cool looking MP3 player with television commercials, and they changed their image. When has Fender had to do that in the past ten years? While Gibson is trying to stay on top of modern technology and failing drastically with the Firebird X and guitars that can light your cigarette, Fender has been very successful. All they do is alter their basic models a little, and people buy it. It's not about integrity in the eyes of older players, because they're a business. The younger players are the future, which is why they make so much money from Squier.

[BG76]

 

Are iPhone and iPods computers?

 

Yes, they are.

 

I understand what you're saying. The thing is, nobody would pay $1500 for a reissue G3. When you buy a computer you're buying it for the latest technology.

 

Look at a company like PRS (I'm not a huge PRS fan btw). They mainly make USA made guitars in the $2000+ range, and they use their SE name on the low end stuff. What I'm saying is that the name Fender once meant something. Now, because of all the low end junk it really doesn't mean much at all. Despite all the hatred for Henry J, he has managed to keep the Gibson name on American made instruments and uses the Epiphone name for the low end things.

 

Fender's balance sheet isn't that impressive. They make a lot of money, but they're not exactly super profitable. I would bet Gibson, PRS and Rickenbacker probably move less guitars and make less money - but I would bet their more profitable. I don't have anything to back that up, as I haven't seen anyone's financials except for Fender's unimpressive IPO bid. When you think about all the names they own it's amazing they're not super profitable.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[sammyreynolds01]

I wouldn't say Gibson is highly profitable but they are in a hell of a lot better position than there were 5 yrs ago. Then they were almost on the cusp of bankruptcy. But just remember this, if Guitar Center ever bites the dust, then it won't matter for either one of them. When Fender pulled their IPO it was for a variety of reason. At the time a 1/4 of their business was in Europe which at the time as going to a recession, their IPO was way overpriced, at the time they had about $200 million in debt and lastly their relationship with Guitar was a major negative for them at the time.

[Bucksstudent]

 

Yes, they are.

 

I understand what you're saying. The thing is, nobody would pay $1500 for a reissue G3. When you buy a computer you're buying it for the latest technology.

 

Yet, most of the people buying those expensive Fenders and Gibsons are looking for traditionalism, but realistically it's outdated. You see many guitarists sneer when a company like Gibson takes a risk with the Firebird X, which is understandable since it's an almost factually stupid idea, and you don't see many people playing Parkers or Line 6 guitars. That may change, but it's going to take a lot of older people dying out, and more young people looking for advancement in guitar technology.

 

And there is a whole legion of PC gamers who would argue that most people buying computers do not buy it for the latest technology because they're not getting the latest technology. Especially not with the stylish crap Apple peddles, IMO.

 

Look at a company like PRS (I'm not a huge PRS fan btw). They mainly make USA made guitars in the $2000+ range, and they use their SE name on the low end stuff.

 

Yeah, and Gibson has some pretty bad guitars in the same price range as those SEs, and they don't bother changing the name on the headstock. At least with a PRS SE, you're getting something that was inspected in America at the factory. If it's not up to their standards, it's trashed. Gibson doesn't even have factory seconds anymore as far as I know.

 

 

It still does, dude! They still put out great instruments. There are hundreds of people on these forums and all over who love not only MIA Fender, but also Squier! I've owned five or six Squiers, and they're not bad guitars, especially for the price! I've not played a bad Chinese Fender, either. It's a testament to how great they are even if they have to resort to overseas production to stay in business. They're in too deep to be like Rickenbacker. Rickenbacker has always been small, but Fender can't lay off everybody, including those poor people in China.

 

Despite all the hatred for Henry J, he has managed to keep the Gibson name on American made instruments and uses the Epiphone name for the low end things.

 

And? That has little to do with the economics of it all. It has little to do with moving forward. Gibson makes subpar American instruments for the same price as superior Chinese ones because some people are too stuck up to buy the Epiphone, or they're worried about supporting China even if Gibson makes most of the money. When you buy an Epiphone, you're probably contributing just as much money to them if you buy a Gibson in the same range, if not more.

 

Fender's balance sheet isn't that impressive. They make a lot of money, but they're not exactly super profitable. I would bet Gibson, PRS and Rickenbacker probably move less guitars and make less money - but I would bet their more profitable.

 

No. I'm pretty sure Fender makes more money than them.

 

[Danhedonia]

Can someone link me to FMIC's balance sheet? If so, I will review and synopsize here.

 

Product development in guitars is not around new features (like in computers) but in QC and value; we've discussed this ad infinitum. But basically, less sharp fret ends is equivalent to more megapixels on the camera sensor.

 

Saying that Fender's brand has been damaged by successfully selling lower cost items is laughable; there is absolutely no way of looking at that (marginal profitability; brand recognition; brand perception) that would bear that out. OTOH, I do agree that the imports should simply fly the Squier brand and be done. There are indeed waaaaaaaaaaay too many Telecasters to choose from. And yet no US Standard Jazzmaster. That is completely ridiculous.

 

I don't see where Fender's brand is in trouble. And in fact, are they in trouble? I'd really like to see that balance sheet.

[Bucksstudent]

Can someone link me to FMIC's balance sheet? If so, I will review and synopsize here.

 

Product development in guitars is not around new features (like in computers) but in QC and value; we've discussed this ad infinitum. But basically, less sharp fret ends is equivalent to more megapixels on the camera sensor.

 

Saying that Fender's brand has been damaged by successfully selling lower cost items is laughable; there is absolutely no way of looking at that (marginal profitability; brand recognition; brand perception) that would bear that out. OTOH, I do agree that the imports should simply fly the Squier brand and be done. There are indeed waaaaaaaaaaay too many Telecasters to choose from. And yet no US Standard Jazzmaster. That is completely ridiculous.

 

I don't see where Fender's brand is in trouble. And in fact, are they in trouble? I'd really like to see that balance sheet.

 

I agree.

 

I think BG76 represents an older generation that would rather have things as they once were. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not going to happen. Fender are doing good, and I don't imagine the CEO stepped down because they were on the verge of bankruptcy or anything. It's not like they spent a lot of money in some new project and it failed (Nintendo).

[Etienne Rambert]

What I want hardly represents what would benefit the company nor the majority of guitarists.

 

1. Bring back MIJ products into the main Fender lineup. It makes little sense for Fender to not sell their MIJs in America as another option because there will always be people wanting MIA models.

 

2. Lower MIM prices. We're manufacturing in Mexico to cut down on costs, right?

 

Agreed. I want a MIM Classic Player Jazzmaster. Why should I have to pay $799 case not included?

The drop-off on used CPJM's is not much.

 

What I'm worried they will do is screw around with Guild guitars. They have a good, inexpensive MIK line of electrics. But they're hard to find.

And t has a line of MIA of mostly the same guitars that have price-tags 5-7 times as much as the same MIK guitar.

 

The acoustics are famous. But Fender has really had some marketing gaffes on those too. The Standard series is an example.

 

Guild MIK Newark Street Series & Prices

 

Guild MIA American Patriarch Series & Prices

[BG76]

I agree. I think BG76 represents an older generation that would rather have things as they once were. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not going to happen. Fender are doing good, and I don't imagine the CEO stepped down because they were on the verge of bankruptcy or anything. It's not like they spent a lot of money in some new project and it failed (Nintendo).

 

I'm in my mid 30s, so I'm not exactly representing the baby boomers.

 

I will say that I had a Tokai and a couple MIJ Fenders in the late 80a/early 90s and they were ok, but nothing to write home about. Better then a Series 10, but not the amazing guitars people think they are.

 

The thing is, Fender guitars were not cheap up until fairly recently. Back in the day, a Strat or Tele would be about $2000 in today's money. I remember saving paper route money to buy stuff and holding out.

 

Today, I could just buy the $300 model and be done with it. Today, they mainly sell budget imported guitars. They make a few nice guitars, but the majority of what they make is low end.

 

You mention that they're doing good. I'm unaware of any good deeds that they do, unless you think moving once American jobs to foreign shores and lowering the overall quality of a great American brand is somehow noble. Do you mean they're doing well financially? I would disagree with that as well.

 

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...d293340ds1.htm

[soundcreation]

 

 

 

I will say that I had a Tokai and a couple MIJ Fenders in the late 80a/early 90s and they were ok, but nothing to write home about. Better then a Series 10, but not the amazing guitars people think they are.

 

 

Which models?