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Advice needed Neck crack relationship - live with it or break up?


Chordite

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Quelle surprise after my last house move

Neck Crack.jpg

Of all my guitars I can't believe this has happened to my LP standard :smileywink:

But there it is, both sides about the same.

Rather like balancing a glass on the edge of a table I keep thinking "Is she gonna go?" It's a test of nerves.

 

The question is should I leave it and hope Or do like a doc and break completely it to reset the bone?

And if we go for a breakup what is the best glue to use?

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Chordite wrote:

Quelle surprise after my last house move

Neck Crack.jpg

Of all my guitars I can't believe this has happened to my LP standard
:smileywink:

But there it is, both sides about the same.

Rather like balancing a glass on the edge of a table I keep thinking "Is she gonna go?" It's a test of nerves.

 

The question is should I leave it and hope Or do like a doc and break completely it to reset the bone?

And if we go for a breakup what is the best glue to use?

How?Just How?

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knotty wrote:

How?Just How?

Dunno really, I hardly ever use it being a strat man and just noticed.

Never dropped by me. It might have been whacked before I bought it and the crack is 'creeping' I did lean it against a hot radiator last week without thinking but I don't think that alone would do it.

Either way I know about it now and expect that ominous "click-dang" noise they wake you up in the night with when they start to 'go'

Hey ho, at least it wasn't the Encore  :)

 

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Fix it or have it done professionally.   If it remains a "green stick" fracture like that (meaning that it hasn't come all the way off) you have the advantage that the pieces will stay in alignment - other wise you are going to have to build some very good clamping cauls.   There is also a good chance that it is split into the truss rod cavity - you will want to make sure to keep glue out of there.

The best glue is hot hide, but you probably do not have that available (don't use the bottled hide glue in hardware stores).   Second best is either yellow AR (Titebond) or slow setting epoxy (not the 5 minute stuff).   Slow setting epoxy becomes very viscous and wicks its way down into the cracks.  I have some black slow set epoxy (from StewMac) that helps to color the crack.

If you have any pieces of wood that chip out try to fit them in after you have made the main repair - medium super glue is good for that (don't use super glue for the break itself).    Once you get it glued up you will need to deal with cosmetics - if you are lucky you can drop fill with CA or thickened nitro (assuming that the finish on the guitar is nitrocellulose lacquer).   If you are very lucky you won't have to touch up the finish itself - that is a bitch on a neck like that.

Here is a classic headstock crack on an acoustic Gibson, note that there is some wood missing

IMG\_1363.JPG

and the finished product.   Because of the age of the guitar the owner did not want a refinish or an attempt to make it perfect cosmetically - just structurally sound.

IMG\_1373.JPG

If you feel up to all of that, go for it, otherwise take it to a pro.    I just refretted an old Lester that hand a very poorly repaired headstock crack - it was rough feeling and they attempted to refinish the 'burst - basically made a mess of everything.

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I just reviewed the Sully vid - that is basically the idea for a green stick fracture.    If the headstock comes off completely the pieces want to slide around on each other when glued and clamped - you will want to make some cauls that hold everything in alignment.     He is using Titebond - the glue syringe is a very good idea.   Both Titebond and hide glue cleans up with water.    Finish does not adhere well to Titebond and will leave a line if you try to refinish it.    The epoxy that I use cleans up with denatured alcohol - that is not a problem with either lacquer or polyurethane finishes (but is a big problem with shellac).    He mentions scraping if the little pad gets glued on - one way to prevent that would be putting waxed paper under the pad.     Also, he doesn't mention the truss rod - you might consider removing the nut, coating the threads in wax so glue doesn't stick and cleaning it out really well while the glue is still wet.

Good luck - I've had four broken headstocks in my shop this winter plus the LP - must be high gravity.

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Thanks guys, This has been very helpful. I think for this one I will go pro. What swung it is the complexity of the other side which, on closer inspection, runs  down toward  the third fret and then up the fingerboard join to the headstock.

I've repaired clean headstock breaks before with success, even a 12 string, but this one is messyer,

(then again I like a challenge, I like the drill and inject idea, If everything is warmed up to maybe 40 or 50 degrees C. epoxy should flow well. 3 or 4 strategic holes about 1.5mm and a similar size needle  )

 

Ssl21128.jpg

 

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I'd get another opinion about drilling any holes in it.

You might also want to go to Frank Ford's website, Frets.com.   Scroll down thru all the topics - near the bottom is a bunch of information on repairs (I could give you the link but its worth while to let you do the research).    Frank is one of the finest repair people around - mostly acoustics and lots of really valuable vintage instruments.    You'll learn all about cauls, glues, filling the cracks, and repairing the finish.

Dan Erlewine, at StewMac is another great repair person - his book would be good reading at this time.    fwiw - Ford uses exclusively HH glue, Erlewine is where I got the suggest of 24 hour epoxy (which StewMac does sell, in black).

I'll add to this, I just refretted a very nice old (60's) Les Paul - it's had the crap played out of it but its really a nice guitar.   With one exception - some bozo repaired a broken headstock - got it a hair misaligned.   It is obvious to anyone looking at it and would just drive your thumb crazy.   To add insult to injury they tried to "touch up" the burst on the back of the neck - probably with rattle cans.    This would be a very valuable guitar and a great player if the work had been done correctly.

Obviously your skills and milage will vary - good luck.

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Thanks Freeman, a useful old site (reminds me of the late Sheldon Brown's bicycle site).

I think the whole execise hinges (pun intended) on how much it opens  up once I have the strings off. As long as there is a gap glue can be got in without hassle. On the other hand if it is cracked like a plate with no separation there might be a problem

One thing that bothers me is that He seems concerned about epoxy joints in hot cars, prefering hot hide glue, I always thought epoxy was pretty much rock solid once it has set. I've used it to repair thermostat housings on vintage cars which must be 105 to 110 degrees and it has held for years

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I have heard conflcting things about epoxy - its the glue from hell for doing neck resets and bridges on acoustic guitars, but I have heard that people get it to release with heat (no moisture).   Erlewine lists it as his second choice for headstock repairs behind HH.    He then says tht superglue is a "worst case scenario" glue - if the break is accessable he won't use it (I have used it for little splinters after doing the basic repair with epoxy or AR).   Erlewine goes on to say that he doesn't trust AR not to move or creap over time so he doesn't use it on headstocks, but it is a common glue for other guitar work.

I'm far from an expert - have done mostly simple clean breaks and have used both epoxy and AR.   I make my headstocks from two pieces and glue them together with AR - this way you don't have any cross grain at the highly stressed nut area.   So far, no problems but my oldest guitar is only ten years old.

IMG\_0947.JPG

I can promise you that this kind of joint wants to skate all over the place while the glue is wet - thats why you don't want to snap it off if possible.

Keep me posted - I don't come to the electric side as much as I should so shoot me a PM

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@bleep: NEVERNEVERNEVERNEVER us Titebond 2 or 3. Only the original.

If you want a permanent bond, use epoxy. Titebond 2 or 3 still has all the other disadvantages of aliphatic resin but it will not release with heat or steam.

Plain old original Aliphatic resin (or hide glue)for when you want a repairable joint.

Epoxy for when you don't.

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Elias Graves wrote:

 

@bleep: NEVERNEVERNEVERNEVER us Titebond 2 or 3. Only the original.

 

If you want a permanent bond, use epoxy. Titebond 2 or 3 still has all the other disadvantages of aliphatic resin but it will not release with heat or steam.

 

Plain old original Aliphatic resin (or hide glue)for when you want a repairable joint.

 

Epoxy for when you don't.

 

 

I am aware of that.  That's exactly why I always-always-always use and recommend Titebond III.  Titebond III joints *do not* shrink and cause those telltale lines you see on vintage guitars.  Titebond III is the most stable and strongest glue available, and it's waterproof.  

If you plan on steaming apart a neck joint every 10 or 15 years for a neck reset, by all means, use Titebond 1 or hide glue.  If you are building a violin, by all means use Titebond 1 or hide glue.  

 

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