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Best power amp for use with amp modeler?


tjmoto

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I've got a Tonelab SE. I run it through a 59 Vibrolux for home practice. My kid is starting to jam/play out and he likes the ToneLab SE but needs more watts for bigger halls/venues. He really wants a Marshal stack but doesn't realize what a pain these things are to lug around! I've head mixed reviews about the Crate PowerBlock...both good and crappy. Is there anything out there like a powerblock, ie. 150W, light, cheap, that would fill the bill for powering a ToneLab or any other amp modeler? I know most guys run their modeler straigth into the board, but he still likes having control over sound levels, etc. Thanks.

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I have an old Traynor Bloc 100. It's a solid state 100 watt 1X12. The clean channel is very transparent. If you watch eBay you can find them cheap fairly regularly. They're all a bit old now, having been built in the 80s, but they're simple and tough. Just a thought.

 

 

So are we talking a 100W power amp in a 1x12 enclosure? That would fit the bill perfectly.

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I've got a Tonelab SE. I run it through a 59 Vibrolux for home practice. My kid is starting to jam/play out and he likes the ToneLab SE but needs more watts for bigger halls/venues. He really wants a Marshal stack but doesn't realize what a pain these things are to lug around! I've head mixed reviews about the Crate PowerBlock...both good and crappy. Is there anything out there like a powerblock, ie. 150W, light, cheap, that would fill the bill for powering a ToneLab or any other amp modeler? I know most guys run their modeler straigth into the board, but he still likes having control over sound levels, etc. Thanks.

 

Hi,

 

I have a TLSE myself. I would stay away from the Crate. I could never get a totally clean tone from it to run any modeller... always added a bit of gain and I came to dislike for just that reason.

 

Right now I am running my SE through a Rocktron poweramp I purchased used off of E-bay. There is one on E-bay right now... could probably snag it for under $200 shipped and it would last him many years... then you get a 2 x 12 cab and you are all set.... or get 2 1 x 12 cabs like I have and run it in stereo and you are in tonal heaven!! Yessum!!;)

 

I know some people have good luck running a modeller into the front end of a combo (or effects loop) but I have never had good results doing that with ANY modeller on ANY amp (except the Atomic... which I have not tried and is designed from what I hear for modellers).

 

I believe that the best tones are attainable, in my estimation, by having lots of clean, pristine power. Even a PA amp... or studio reference amp will get your son better sound than running through a combo.

 

Good luck,

BP

 

P.S. Rocktron, ADA, Crate SPA-series, ART SLA-series, B.K. Butler Mosvalve, Alesis, are all excellent choices for powering the SE.

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Not sure why a PB woulden't suit the bill. I use mine al the time and never had any issues with it not cleaning up... in fact it's almost too clean. The PB has so many differnt uses but I think a lot of people missed what they are good at as well as Crate not advertising them the right way.

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Not sure why a PB woulden't suit the bill. I use mine al the time and never had any issues with it not cleaning up... in fact it's almost too clean. The PB has so many differnt uses but I think a lot of people missed what they are good at as well as Crate not advertising them the right way.

 

 

Hi,

 

They are certainly versatile. I give them that. I just couldn't get a good fat clean out of them. In order to get enough volume I had to kick up the gain on it---henceforth, dirtying up the tone a little too much for use with a modeller.

 

Cheers,

BP

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I really like the idea of running the TSLE into a power amp and then into a 2x12 cab. I love the tones I get when I go straigt into the headphones...other than blues distortion/edge which I'm sure I could get running into t 2x12 cab. So the question is...how much power? Wattage that is?

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I run my Tonelab into the FX return of my Peavey Prowler tube amp which is kind of a lower gain version of the Valve King. It's not CRAZY loud, but it's PLENTY loud enough to piss off any neighbors that are sleeping at the time.

 

They were never known for their sonorous tone, but I had several Peavey solid state amps back in the 80s and early 90s. A Special 150, a Bandit, a Renown. They were all very loud amps and pretty clean, but that Renown was pretty crazy. I bought it used and when I was in Jazz band in 9th and 10th grade, just that one amp could keep up with the entire PA system the school had... and it was a nice PA system. I only used it once like that because the director preferred the more congealed sound of just plugging into the board, but it was really amazing.

 

A friend of mine that played the bass used to have a Peavey keyboard amp that had a 15" speaker and a fairly small horn so it wasn't crazy honky. I think it was at least 150 watts, but I want to say it was 200 watts. And it had about a 7 band EQ.

 

For the money, those older Peavey solid state amps are cheap and put out lots of very clean sound. I think they'd be great with a modeler.

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I really like the idea of running the TSLE into a power amp and then into a 2x12 cab. I love the tones I get when I go straigt into the headphones...other than blues distortion/edge which I'm sure I could get running into t 2x12 cab. So the question is...how much power? Wattage that is?

 

Hi,

 

I wouldn't do anything under 100 watts mono (4ohm) or 75 watts stereo (8ohm). I have an ART 100 watt power amp and it is just barely enough power to keep up with a pounding drummer when I run it 50 watts per side stereo. I know that running it at max volume to keep up at gigging/jamming volume for several hours would likely lead to some overheating issues. 100 watts bridged mono and it is fine though. The Rocktron I have is 150 watts and I can run 75 watts per side stereo (8 ohm) and it is fine. And I prefer to run the TLSE stereo.... sound Fantabulous!! :thu:

 

BP

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For the money, those older Peavey solid state amps are cheap and put out lots of very clean sound. I think they'd be great with a modeler.

 

 

 

I agree. Those older Peaveys are worth a look-see. A keyboard amp is not a bad idea. Somewhere I saw someone mentioning using one... and he was pleased... keyboards have a greater frequency range than guitar so they would definitely be able to handle anything a guitar threw at them and then some.

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this is actually an objective question with real definitive answer. in the sense that it is what modellers were made to be paired with, the best thing to use with a modeller would be a PA.

 

don't run it through guitar cab. run it through a PA power amp and a PA speaker. or as i suggested, get a bi-amped powered PA speaker. they are objectively the state-of-art in pro audio.

 

i wrote about it here

 

i know we have many subjective debates on tone here, but this is really a technically provable answer.

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exactly what i use.


i use that between my pod xt and crate 4X12 enclosure.


I'm content with it. i haven't had any real motivation to get a tube head after previously owning one a few years back.


l_20682289a2d6110deebbd7da3e42628f.jpg

 

I also have a Peavey Classic 60/60 but I think the MosValve works much better with any digital efx:thu:

 

If they were good enough for Jerry Cantrell theyre good enough for me

 

Mosvalveandibanez002-1.jpg

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Tonelabs like clean, high headroom amplifiocation and full range speakers. Small, active PA speakers wotrk really well:

JBL EON15 active.

Mackie SRM450.

EV SX300.

Behringer something.

 

Or look at Roland and Behringer keyboard amps.

 

If you really want just a power amp, personnaly, I would like to try it through one of these:

 

http://www.electrovoice.com/products/40.html

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I use an Atomic 212 and it is the best thing you can get for a modeller.

 

 

please read what i said earlier and what Nik said.

 

to be absolutely {censored}ing clear, modellers need clean headroom (as in no distortion what-so-ever) and full range faithful reproduction of the input signal.

 

a legit PA set up will have these:

 

headroom - like i mentioned, srm450 and eon 15 g2 will have 300 watts going into low frequency driver ALONE. they will have 100 watts going into the freakin' tweeter.

 

full range - no way in hell you can get full range without a tweeter. atomic doesn't have a tweeter.

 

excuse my lack of modesty. you can say atomic is very good for modellers. i'll believe you.

 

don't use the word best. because it's not the best.

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I use a Roland KC-60 keyboard amp that I got for a bargain off Ebay with my Tonelab (desktop). Sounds great and it is very loud, but it is only 30 watts with a 10" speaker. You could try a KC-150 (65 watts) or KC-350 (120 watts), supposed to be good amps but not as cheap as a solid state guitar amp, but probably better for a Tonelab as mentioned. Could always buy used.

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full range - no way in hell you can get full range without a tweeter. atomic doesn't have a tweeter.


.

 

Full range isn't a good thing for guitar, necessarily. The only times I've heard an electric guitar through tweeters or horns (not counting PA reinforcement), it sounded like dogshit. YMMV.

 

I'm not a fan of modelers at all, really, but that is exactly what the Atomic is specifically designed for. I'm sure they wouldn't have forgotten to put a tweeter in, if it was necessary to reproduce the modeler's sounds. Why would you want to hear a model of a plexi, for example, through tweeters, or a full range cab, though? It's not as though the orignal amps (or ANY guitar amps, for that matter) are "full range".:confused:

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I was kind of in the same boat but unlike you I didn't need tons of power so I said screw it and got a small tube amp.

 

But I have been using modellers for years as my main gear and you seem to be on the right track. I've heard horror stories of tone about guys trying to send something that is modelling one amp into another true amp.

 

Tonguelashing from the page before withstanding I have heard great things about Atomic Amps. Having not used one I can't call it the best, but if I was in the market it would probably be the first place I look.

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Full range isn't a good thing for guitar, necessarily. The only times I've heard an electric guitar through tweeters or horns (not counting PA reinforcement), it sounded like dogshit. YMMV.


I'm not a fan of modelers at all, really, but that is exactly what the Atomic is specifically designed for. I'm sure they wouldn't have forgotten to put a tweeter in, if it was necessary to reproduce the modeler's sounds. Why would you want to hear a model of a plexi, for example, through tweeters, or a full range cab, though? It's not as though the orignal amps (or ANY guitar amps, for that matter) are "full range".
:confused:

 

to be brief and to simplify,

 

fundamental frequencies of guitar is from 80hz to 1300hz. this is not full range. but way above these frequencies is the higher harmonics of the fundamental frequencies. these basically define 'tone' in part.

 

think traditional model

 

guitar -> amp -> mic -> PA

 

mic hears what we hear. and by the time it reaches our ears, the harmonics of the guitar have went through the amp and the amp adds its own harmonics and cab does different things to each frequencies. guitar cabs are capable of making high frequency noises. just in not faithful fashion.

 

basically modeller tries to replace 'amp -> mic' and it is ideal to pass it off to PA. if you're running it to atomic, it looks like

 

guitar -> modeller -> atomic

 

equals

 

guitar -> 'amp -> mic' -> atomic.

 

just imagine that you hooked up to your amp to, say, blackface twin or whatever you're modelling. then mic'ed it up. then instead of sending it to a mixer like you usually would after you mic up an amp, you sent it to atomic instead.

 

this can sound good. you just won't be hearing what the guys who made the modeller wanted you to hear. close but not as close as PA will get you. atomic is closer to PA than a regular guitar rig. the whole point of atomic is to make something resembling a PA as closely as possible in a guitar cab form factor. truth.

 

* if it makes the understanding easier, think of what comes out of modellers. line level output. that you can listen to out of headphones. it is meant for full-range reproduction.

 

there is nothing controversial about what i've said. read the manual of any modeller. contact the customer support reps. they'll say for best possible operation, send it to full-range set-up.

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I also have a Peavey Classic 60/60 but I think the MosValve works much better with any digital efx:thu:


If they were good enough for Jerry Cantrell theyre good enough for me


Mosvalveandibanez002-1.jpg

 

Not to de-rail the thread, but what kind of Ibby is that on the right? Looks cool as hell. I'm not much into Ibanez guitars but I like that one!

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