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Do you judge a company by its best stuff ...


csm

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... or its most recent?

 

Reason I ask: the perennial glut of Gibson-oriented (no pun intended, MUCH) overpriced-crap-or-what threads. I think just about everyone, barring the odd teen troll, agrees that the best guitars the Gibson company has produced over the years (under a variety of managements, in a variety of manufacturing locations and facilities) are wonderful, brilliant instruments which rightfully deserve to be considered as absolute benchmarks in the history of the electric guitar.

 

It's also more-or-less generally agreed that the quality of their current product is -- to put it semi-politely -- VARIABLE, and that they generally charge pretty high prices.

 

Still, let's not scapegoat Gibson particularly. The same goes for many other major marques: Fender and Vox come to mind as labels which have been applied, over the years, to products ranging in quality from the sublime to the ridiculous.

 

So: when someone asks you, 'What do you think of [Gibson/Fender/Vox/whoever: insert name of manufacturer here]?', on what do you base your reply? Their very best stuff from any point in their history? The one you played last week? Or some sort of generalised average?

 

*Jean-Luc Picard voice*

 

Gentlemen! Suggestions!

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Dunno, i suppose Gibson does have this immortal majesty about it, but then again, some of its new stuff is rather not what you would expect...

Read your article in guitarist: good luck with your band, and I personally think you shoud use the Super reverb with a tele/ strat, and use your hands/ guitar/amp controlls to get versatility: not digital modding.

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Thats a hard call-I love Gibsons as a general rule, but I will say you have to be really careful with the stuff hanging in the stores-I usually end up recommending people either go for an older one or sit and play and look over every one they have time to touch- like the faded sg, lp etc- they vary a lot, but some are truly incredible for not much $ -I honestly have never found a custom or higher end LP with the hardware falling off and the neck put on backwards by drunken badgers like half the posters seem to claim, but I'm sure there are lemons out there-

This is kind of non answer, but I guess I would have to find out what era they were looking at or wanting to give a good reply-

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I tend to take a very generalized view of the company as a whole, price vs.playability/ sound being the biggest factor in the assessment, across their whole inventory.

Examples would be that I never see myself owning a Gibson. Way too pricey for the inconsistency. I do see myself owning an Epiphone, which I would put on a level with Fender's MIM stuff.

Fender, OTOH, I would own anything across their product line (I have a MIM and a Squire Affinity and could see a MIA in my future).

Yamaha is another that I would own anything they've put out.

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I've had this realization or view about consumer electronics in the past. Sony makes great stuff, but their low-end crap is crap just like everyone else's crap. Labor costs, I believe, puts Gibson's very best new stuff out of the reach of most of us.

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This thread is in the same vein as my lets stop bashing Gibson thread. Its a fact that Gibson has produced some of the very best guitars ever. I really think the problem with most manufacturers is over producing their product to jump on the money band wagon.

Back in the mid 80s Henry J returned back to Nashville from Japan with an Orville,Aria was in charge of QC, (Matsumoko plant) and asked his head luthier why Gibson couldnt produce guitars with that type of consistancy and he said "were trying to make too many too fast". One thing to keep in mind is that the American companies have to sell their guitars,whereas the Japanese factories built to order for many brands therefore minimallizing risk.

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I don't currently own any Gibsons, but I've had four in the past and I can truthfully state that I've never owned a bad one.

 

I can also truthfully state that I've never owned a Gibson manufactured after 1968.

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I don't currently own any Gibsons, but I've had four in the past and I can truthfully state that I've never owned a bad one.


I can also truthfully state that I've never owned a Gibson manufactured after 1968.

 

They were a much much smaller company back in those days.

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They were a much much smaller company back in those days.

 

 

 

 

That is true. Exports were not very large either. I read here and there of 60's British rockers talking about having one of only like 2 or 3 Les Paul's or whatnot in the country during that time.

 

 

These days everything is so saturated.

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?', on what do you base your reply? Their very best stuff from any point in their history? The one you played last week? Or some sort of generalised average?

 

 

In evaluating a company, I look at their balance sheet and stock price.

 

In evaluating their instruments, I pick them up and play them. To say that 'Gibson is the best' or 'Fenders are terrible' is a pretty poor waste of verbiage.

 

I have observed through the years that every single instrument company has put out some fantastic guitars and some stinkers. Although it might be possible to make a reasonably accurate general statement for a certain product line, I don't think you can do the same for a whole company.

 

Example 1: I would say that the current Gibson Historic Reissue Les Pauls tend to be very well built and nicely set up from the factory - I love 'em. I would also say that many (if not most) of the mid-line LPs I've recently played weren't that hot, and held no interest for me. So what does this mean about Gibson? Nothing I can generalize.

 

Example 2: I love the high-end Marshall amps. I find their solid-state models to not be worth the effort to toss them out a 3rd floor window. So, is Marshall a fairly-priced boutique amp company, or are they a poor mass manufacturer?

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nobody judges First Act on their top of the line

 

 

 

 

Heritage and Hamer USA are always touted for their quality - have they ever put out a clunker? I know Gibson probably produces in a week what the others put out in a year, so it's not the same playing field

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I hope not to sound incoherent in saying this: The company I most admire and respect is Yamaha. Now, I certainly don't think they make the best guitars of the big name companies. I am now lusting real bad for a good (Fender) strat and I sure would love to own one of the fabulous Gibsons that some of you have picked out of the bunch. I judge Yamaha for the honesty of the product, the dedication that I sense they have to music and musician and the lack of brand-name inflation in spite of all the respectabilty that they actually enjoy. (trying to find a Yamaha-bashing thread here would mean spending a lot of time with the search function).

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I hope not to sound incoherent in saying this: The company I most admire and respect is Yamaha. Now, I certainly don't think they make the best guitars of the big name companies. I am now lusting real bad for a good (Fender) strat and I sure would love to own one of the fabulous Gibsons that some of you have picked out of the bunch. I judge Yamaha for the honesty of the product, the dedication that I sense they have to music and musician and the lack of brand-name inflation in spite of all the respectabilty that they actually enjoy. (trying to find a Yamaha-bashing thread here would mean spending a lot of time with the search function).

 

 

Part of the reason is that no matter where they build instruments, and no matter how low the range, Yamaha maintains superb quality control. The $200 RGX320FZ hanging on the wall next to my desk has as good of fit and finish than the $1500 luthier-built custom bass guitar sitting next to it.

 

A lot of that has to do with the built-in expectations of the brand. The Gibson and Fender brands stand for history and heritage as much as anything else; the Yamaha brand stands for quality. To a certain extent, Gibson can afford to piss away quality because it can rest on its laurels, but quality is all Yamaha has.

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Part of the reason is that no matter where they build instruments, and no matter how low the range, Yamaha maintains superb quality control. The $200 RGX320FZ hanging on the wall next to my desk has as good of fit and finish than the $1500 luthier-built custom bass guitar sitting next to it.


A lot of that has to do with the built-in expectations of the brand. The Gibson and Fender brands stand for history and heritage as much as anything else; the Yamaha brand stands for quality. To a certain extent, Gibson can afford to piss away quality because it can rest on its laurels, but quality is all Yamaha has.

 

 

Well put.

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Great question! I tend to go on my own experiences with the brand in question. However, it is important to always have some perspective. For instance, I have yet to play an Epiphone that sounds even passable. However, I haven't played many of them (out of choice) so I am not going to base my opinion of their entire line of products on my bad experiences.
Too many people have a bad experience or two with a manufacturer and instantly make broad generalizations and inferences about the product. It is the equivalent of experiencing one rainy day in Arizona and concluding that it must rain every day in Arizona.

btw I agree about Yamaha, their quality and value are really underrated.

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I really think the problem with most manufacturers is over producing their product to jump on the money band wagon.

 

 

I agree. For the type of products that Gibson wants to make they should be much, much smaller. Most of their similarly priced competitors tend to be small like PRS, Rickenbacker, G&L, etc..

 

Essentially Gibson's competetive strategy is not aligned with their internal processes.

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Do you judge a company by its' best stuff...

 

I'm actually rather surprised to see the tie-in to Gibson. I mean Gibson is one of the very premier companies in the industry and perhaps the most copied. I think it applies more aptly to a company like Washburn. This is a company that is always unfairly judged by its cheapies IMO, when the US and Custom Shop models (the higher-end imports ain't bad either) are as good as anything I've ever played.

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csm is having a terrible influence on this forum! He asks a question in his Picard imitation and suddenly I read long paragraphs of prose, well considered arguments, cogent exchanges of opinions that carefully distinguish facts from impressions ... THIS THREAD IS A DISGRACE!!!

 

All Gibsons are great and have always been, Epis suck, Fenders suck (with the exception of Esquires and the occasional Tele). P90s & Humbuckers rule. Nitro finishes are a must. Led Zeppelin is the greatest band ever. Ace Frehley is completely underrated. Blackmore sucks. I never got Jeff Beck .... Pfffff .... There, now I feel much better ;)

 

Having said that, I believe that the top tier of any company's product is an important aspect of the overall image of the company and if the range is well done, then the bottom of the line will benefit from that image. In that sense it is important that Top brands, such as Fender or Gibson do not use the same name for their cheaper products but create separate labels. Personally, as many others have said here, one needs to judge the individual instrument.

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When it comes to Gibson, I'd love to own another one, but I just can't afford one...besides I already own all the guitars I'll ever need. Not to mention that I've read about Gibson's quality control issues here and in other forums.

Now when it comes to Korg, it comes from experience! I've just had bad luck with that particular company. The "last straw" is their metronome (MA-30) that broke down on my daughter. It doesn't matter that Korg is also the U.S. distributor for Marshall and Vox, I will NOT buy any products from these 3 companies!

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?', on what do you base your reply? Their very best stuff from any point in their history? The one you played last week? Or some sort of generalised average?

 

 

I can honestly say that I judge based on the ones I've played. I'm not a kid anymore who needs to make his own gear look better by putting down others'.

 

I don't like Gibson because out of the incredible amount I've played, I've never found more than a handful that weren't muddy, heavy atrocities that might be a little bit less hilarious if the price wasn't so ridiculously inflated for what you're getting. I still, to this day, want to find a Gibson to love so terribly.

 

Even as a Fender guy, I'm very skeptical of their quality lately. This is due to an incident involving ordering a Hot Rod '57 Stratocaster and having it be awful. This is mostly MF's fault though, as it was obviously a defective guitar. Fender's choice of bridge pickup was awful on that guitar as well. Though this situation has blemished my opinion of Fender, I still have yet to ever play a poor Fender when I go into a place like GC.

 

I don't really have opinions on many other brands, as I don't play many others, but I can say I've loved the quality on all the Epiphone hollow and semi-hollow guitars I've played. Again though, nothing but crap from their solid guitars. Maybe solidbody Gibson guitars and I just aren't meant to be?

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