Members stratfan7 Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 I know this belongs in the amp forum, but i've seen a couple of other amp questions here and the posters here generally seem more helpful. i've been looking at these amps a lot today, b/c i'm in the market for a low wattage practice amp for home. Can anyone tell me a little about them? How do they sound? do they work well with pedals? is it worth getting one as opposed to a blackstar ht-5, vox ac4, etc.? should i buy one? pretty much any info is helpful. any help would be appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 I know this belongs in the amp forum, but i've seen a couple of other amp questions here and the posters here generally seem more helpful. i've been looking at these amps a lot today, b/c i'm in the market for a low wattage practice amp for home. Can anyone tell me a little about them? How do they sound? do they work well with pedals? is it worth getting one as opposed to a blackstar ht-5, vox ac4, etc.? should i buy one? pretty much any info is helpful. any help would be appreciated! They sound great. They love pedals. They are very dependable and easy to service. George Harrison used a 4-pack of them at Concert for Bangladesh. A well-maintained one (recent cap job, good tubes, and decent speaker) should be do-able for around $300, maybe less. I love mine. (All 8 of them.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Blues Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 I know this belongs in the amp forum, but i've seen a couple of other amp questions here and the posters here generally seem more helpful. i've been looking at these amps a lot today, b/c i'm in the market for a low wattage practice amp for home. Can anyone tell me a little about them? How do they sound? do they work well with pedals? is it worth getting one as opposed to a blackstar ht-5, vox ac4, etc.? should i buy one? pretty much any info is helpful. any help would be appreciated! Wonderful little amps. Forget clean, just a little more overdrive as you turn it up. It's never clean but sounds great a low volume. Once the volume is past the middle, it really doesn't get any louder, just changes its tone as you go up. Works really well with overdrive pedals and is pure bliss if you hook it up to a 1x12 cab. Really simple circuit that just loves NOS tubes! you can very easily change its voice with a preamp tube change. They're easy to mod too but IMO, no mod is needed. I was a fool to sell mine, in the search to find the "perfect" small amp. Truth is, it doesn't get much better than the Champ. If I stumble across another, I'll be buying it for sure. If not, I'm going to get me one of those kits they sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xStonr Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 I can't comment on the Blackstar or Vox, but I do own a Silverface Champ. I got it 2 years ago and just couldn't be happier with the purchase. I thought I paid a lot for mine at the time (230), but looking at ebay prices, I did okay. As the previous posters have stated, It's a sweet little amp and it does great with pedals. My speaker was shot when I got mine and did a speaker change. Also I changed the output jack so I could disconnect the Champ's speaker and run it into a 2x12 cab I have which makes it sound huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stratfan7 Posted September 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 Thanks for the replies guys. i just have a couple more questions. Is ebay the best place to find them, and how much should i pay for a champ or vibrochamp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Blues Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 Thanks for the replies guys. i just have a couple more questions. Is ebay the best place to find them, and how much should i pay for a champ or vibrochamp? Have no idea what they're running now but if you decide to buy it, consider getting these preamp tubes as well; 12AY7 (In my opinion, the General Electric is the one to look for) 5751 (RCA or GE) 12AX7 (Telefunken or Mullard NOS) (ECC83) These tubes can get expensive and in probably any other amp I'd say don't bother but the Champ will let you hear every little nuance. As for the other two tubes... 5Y3GT (RCA all the way) 6V6GT (The new TungSol are great) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xStonr Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 Thanks for the replies guys. i just have a couple more questions. Is ebay the best place to find them, and how much should i pay for a champ or vibrochamp? ebay, craigslist, and pawnshops would the best places. Depending on conditon, consider btwn 2 and 3 hundred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 6V6GT (The new TungSol are great) And at $35 a pair, an amazing value! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreaserMatt Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 the old ones are great Man, 8 of them? I'm very jealous... I love my '72 that I paid $180 for 2 years ago... all orig except for the speaker... I'll try to find a pic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axe_34 Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 I've got this one coming in the mail -- all original 1968. I'll report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tiltsta Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 Do you guys prefer the champ over the vibrochamp? Any reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Help!I'maRock! Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 i own two. a '68 vibro champ and a '68 bronco. the only difference between them is the name. otherwise, they're identical. they're the perfect apartment amp. the small 8" speaker doesn't allow a helluva lot of lows through like a 12" speaker. and those are the frequencies that usually get you into trouble with the neighbors. it stays clean up to about 4, and then starts to break up. in an apartment, by the time you're on 4, its plenty loud anyway. they take pedals really well. other amps, like my Mesa Boogie Subway Rocket (which even though its a small 20 watt amp, i was always getting into trouble with) mask a lot of the differences between pedals. with the Champs, you can really hear the details. i'm not necessarily sure the tremolo circuit is worth the extra cash. i mean, they sound fantastic, but not everybody likes tremolo. i do, and as it happens, i got great deals on them. i'm considering selling the VC, and in the NYC market, i'm asking $400. there are stores here that sell them for $600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mister Crow Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 I'll take a contrary position, and say I've had a few Champs in my life and was always underwhelmed. Particular if you are using it as a 'practise' amp, I'd look elsewhere. To get the best out of them (IMO) they need to be cranked for some natural overdrive. To sit in front of them and practise at a normal volume they sound dull and puny to me. Others obviously have different experiences, but I thought it would be good to have one naysayer pipe up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Help!I'maRock! Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 I'll take a contrary position, and say I've had a few Champs in my life and was always underwhelmed. Particular if you are using it as a 'practise' amp, I'd look elsewhere. To get the best out of them (IMO) they need to be cranked for some natural overdrive. To sit in front of them and practise at a normal volume they sound dull and puny to me. Others obviously have different experiences, but I thought it would be good to have one naysayer pipe up. it all depends on what you're looking for in a practice amp. if you're looking for something that sounds like a cranked marshall at 2am bedroom levels, then the Champ isn't for you. in my view, that's what they make distortion pedals for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mister Crow Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 it all depends on what you're looking for in a practice amp. if you're looking for something that sounds like a cranked marshall at 2am bedroom levels, then the Champ isn't for you. in my view, that's what they make distortion pedals for. For a practise amp, I just look for a nice clear, round, full tone. I don't want any distortion at all. I agree, that's why I use pedals. I've just never been able to get that clear, round, full tone for practise out of a Champ. Probably has a bit to do with the small speaker, and a bit to do with what my needs are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 i own two. they're the perfect apartment amp. the small 8" speaker doesn't allow a helluva lot of lows through like a 12" speaker. Daisychain your pair and separate them a bit, and those bass lows should materialize like magic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Help!I'maRock! Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 For a practise amp, I just look for a nice clear, round, full tone. I don't want any distortion at all. I agree, that's why I use pedals. I've just never been able to get that clear, round, full tone for practise out of a Champ. Probably has a bit to do with the small speaker, and a bit to do with what my needs are. it might have less to do with a small speaker, and more to do with 40 year old speakers. i just replaced the speaker in my Bronco with a Weber Sig8a, and the difference was extraordinary. but there is also your point that you like a round, full tone. there's no doubt that the 12" version of my speaker is going to sound a lot fuller than the 8" version. but those are the frequencies that get me in trouble with the neighbors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Help!I'maRock! Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 Daisychain your pair and separate them a bit, and those bass lows should materialize like magic! how to daisy chain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 how to daisy chain? Just patch a guitar cord between input jacks on the amps. I gig with a pair of Champs...and love the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Help!I'maRock! Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 Just patch a guitar cord between input jacks on the amps.I gig with a pair of Champs...and love the results. i tried it once, but instead of daisy chaining them i took the stereo outs from a pedal and just ran one to each amp. that setup wasn't loud enough to compete with my drummer. will this be louder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 I'll take a contrary position, and say I've had a few Champs in my life and was always underwhelmed. Particular if you are using it as a 'practice' amp, I'd look elsewhere. To get the best out of them (IMO) they need to be cranked for some natural overdrive. To sit in front of them and practice at a normal volume they sound dull and puny to me. Others obviously have different experiences, but I thought it would be good to have one naysayer pipe up. I have to agree. The Champ is a one trick pony the way it was designed. And the irony is that the one thing it does well is something it wasn't designed to do. Basically it sounds good cranked to 12 and overdriven into distortion. As a practice amp played clean it sounds kind of muddy...especially when the guitar doesn't have single coils. I had to modify my tweed Champ clone a LOT to create an amp with useful clean tones at low volumes. The overdriven sounds improved too so the overall design was an improvement without any sacrifices. I added a treble bypass cap across the volume pot to get rid of the mud at low volume. I changed the cathode bypass caps and resistors at every gain stage including the power tube, got rid of the negative feedback loop, changed the input resistor value, swapped out the speaker for a 3.2 ohm 10" Weber. Overall I came away from the experience thinking that the 5E1 and 5F1 designs had flaws in them... and there is nothing sacred about that design. Clapton and other rocker just noticed by accident that they sounded good cranked to 12 and played in a way Leo never designed them for. BTW the "Vibro Champ" is a different design entirely than the blackface or tweed Champ. They sound better at lower volumes and are probably a better practice amp that a true Champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 i tried it once, but instead of daisy chaining them i took the stereo outs from a pedal and just ran one to each amp. that setup wasn't loud enough to compete with my drummer. will this be louder? Works for me. Get the amps up off the floor, at least to knee-level if you are competing with a drummer. With efficient speakers (Weber Sig8 Ceramic) my pair had no trouble keeping up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Help!I'maRock! Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 Works for me. Get the amps up off the floor, at least to knee-level if you are competing with a drummer. With efficient speakers (Weber Sig8 Ceramic) my pair had no trouble keeping up. yeah, they're always up off the floor. i'll try your way. though my amps have the alnico version, so yours probably stay cleaner longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Help!I'maRock! Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 BTW the "Vibro Champ" is a different design entirely than the blackface or tweed Champ. They sound better at lower volumes and are probably a better practice amp that a true Champ. could you explain why a VC sounds better than a regular Champ at low volumes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted September 13, 2009 Members Share Posted September 13, 2009 yeah, they're always up off the floor. i'll try your way. though my amps have the alnico version, so yours probably stay cleaner longer. My ceramic speakers are noticeably louder (than alnico) at all volume settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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