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So how close are the fender mustang amp models?


wagdog

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Yet another mustang thread... sorry...

 

I have a super twin reverb that I've rebuilt to have an AB763 preamp/pi - it sounds sort of like an older twin, probably not EXACT, but close, and loud. I've played a few real twins as well and can pretty much say that I know what a real twin sounds like.

 

I can definitely hear the traits of a real twin reverb in the mustang model. Through the 8" speaker, yeah, it's sort of twin like, but recorded direct through the USB, in a mix, it could be mistaken for a real twin. A real twin recorded in a real studio, with top recording equipment setup by a real engineer, no... but a guy in his basement with his computer, yes.

 

I've also played some deluxe reverbs, an the mustang model sounds pretty close. Again, recorded direct, real close - close enough for me anyway.

 

Lately I've really taken to the tweed deluxe model on the mustang, especially with a bit of reverb, it sounds sooooo nice, lots of depth, really deep and almost glassy, but not quite shimmering. Nice.

 

Is this tweed deluxe model close to a real one?

 

How 'bout the rest of the models? The bassman? Like that mustang model too!

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I'm mostly a Vox and Fender guy. I've owned a Deluxe Reverb, a couple Twins, I have a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Clone a 5F1 Tweed Champ clone, I have a Silverface Bassman at the moment though I don't own it, I regularly play though an AC15H1TV and have owned another AC15.

 

Keep in mind that I had the Mustang II and I had a very well broken in Weber Blue Dog in mine for all but two days of ownership which was a tremendous improvement.

 

I will say that some of the models are very, very close. I will say that the Deluxe Reverb was probably the most impressive to me. It has some extra sparkle over the Twin model in my opinion though it didn't sound quite as big as the Twin, esp when kinda cranked. I don't think the Tweed Fender tones are quite as good as the Blackface tones. A real 5E3 sounds like it's going to blow up all over your stage and take your lower legs out with it... the Mustang does NOT capture that. But at lower volume levels, a 5E3 sounds kind of like a more furry Blackface Deluxe. The Mustang does do a decent job at that vibe. The Bassman sort of walks the line between Tweed and Blackface and the Mustang models walks the line between how well it does... I'd say the Bassman isn't as effective as the Twin/Deluxe Reverb models, but it's better than the Tweed Deluxe model.

 

The Vox model was OK. Every modeler I've ever heard seems to NOT be able to capture the Vox vibe with just a bit of hair which is where I like to run mine. Clean Vox tones are chimey, cranked Vox tones do the Beatles thing pretty well but about 5% past the start of breakup on a real Vox, you can easily walk the line between clean and more breakup... just doesn't seem to happen with the modelers.

 

That's my take anyway. That's not meant to be a slight against the Mustang at all. At $100-$200, it's absolutely unbelievable how amazing the Fender Mustang sounds, esp the II version with the Blue Dog installed. I like to joke that the Weber Silver Bell speaker installed in my 5E3 costs $5 more than the entire Mustang II!

 

:lol:

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Thanks for that run down cratz, especially the VOX info (of which I have zero knowledge).

 

I'm thinking of building a tweed deluxe clone at some point. I was sort of leaning towards building a deluxe reverb, but I've really grown to the like the tweed deluxe in the mustang. I'm thinking of making a sort of hybrid, with a built-in reverb and full tone stack.

 

Here's a quick 30 second clip I just did of the tweed deluxe / mustang with reaper (2 tracks, straight in with the USB).

 

http://wagner-usa.net/tunez/57deluxe_mustang_2track.mp3

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Thanks for that run down cratz, especially the VOX info (of which I have zero knowledge).


I'm thinking of building a tweed deluxe clone at some point. I was sort of leaning towards building a deluxe reverb, but I've really grown to the like the tweed deluxe in the mustang. I'm thinking of making a sort of hybrid, with a built-in reverb and full tone stack.


Here's a quick 30 second clip I just did of the tweed deluxe / mustang with reaper (2 tracks, straight in with the USB).


 

I think we can all agree, they are pretty cool for recording for small $$. That did sound very nice. I would listen to a longer clip if you put one up:thu:

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I haven't touched one yet, but everything I've heard is outstanding. I think that one of the most deceptive tones to nail in any modeller is a good Fender tone. It makes sense that Fender would be able to pull it off though. :lol:

 

I still can't believe all that thing does for the price.

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I got my MII a few days ago still getting used to FUZE. Using Fuze for just tweaking is fun and pretty straight forward but wow using the media part to get the presets and backing tracks

is really horrible. Horrible as in not intuitive at all , lot of complaints about the interface at the Fender forum. Its fairly new so hope they get that part working .

Its still amazing for what it is and costs. I have a 70's twin and well its close.

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Thanks for that run down cratz, especially the VOX info (of which I have zero knowledge).


I'm thinking of building a tweed deluxe clone at some point. I was sort of leaning towards building a deluxe reverb, but I've really grown to the like the tweed deluxe in the mustang. I'm thinking of making a sort of hybrid, with a built-in reverb and full tone stack.


Here's a quick 30 second clip I just did of the tweed deluxe / mustang with reaper (2 tracks, straight in with the USB).


http://wagner-usa.net/tunez/57deluxe_mustang_2track.mp3

 

Sounds good man. :thu:

 

I'd highly encourage you to seek out a Silverface or Blackface Deluxe Reverb and spend at least an hour with or at the very least, spend some time with a DRRI. I'm not crazy about how they are built, but it will certainly convey the idea very well. And try to find someone with a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe or clone so you can get some seat time with both of the real amps before you decide which clone to build. The 5E3 has to be the #1 or #2 clone right now, along with the 18W Marshall. I think a lot of that is because of how simple the circuit is and how expensive the Fender offering is and I really like the 5E3. It's been my #1 or #2 amp for a couple years now. But a Blackface Deluxe Reverb is certainly something, with the right speaker. if I could only have a Blackface Deluxe Reverb clone or a Tweed Deluxe clone... I'm not sure which I'd go for. I will say the Allen Sweet Spot (which is sort of half BF Deluxe, half Princeton) is one of the sweetest amps I've ever played through and it takes pedals spectacularly well. The Tweed ALWAYS sounds like a Tweed. There are pedals (Barber Direct Drive and LTD spring to mind) that can make a Blackface with the right speaker, sound amazingly close to a Marshall.

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So here's another angle: does the Mustang do Vox better than the Valvetronix does Fenders?

 

 

Hrmm... hard to say. I will say they both do Vox and Fender usably well, but the Mustang certainly does better Fender tones than the Valvetronix does. The thing about the Valvetronix (at least the 22 amp model version) is they have so many Vox amp models to work with, it's very easy to get close. I'd say the Mustang Vox tones sound more believable on the higher crunch levels than on the clean tones. I have a Tonelab (which, granted isn't exactly the same as the Valvetronix amps, but close...) and they do a very decent clean Vox tone, both with Top Boost and without. I haven't tried any of the Vox tones in the AxeFX, but I'd have to say the Tonelab does the best Vox models I've ever heard at any price including the Line 6 HD500.

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I haven't touched one yet, but everything I've heard is outstanding. I think that one of the most deceptive tones to nail in any modeller is a good Fender tone. It makes sense that Fender would be able to pull it off though.
:lol:

I still can't believe all that thing does for the price.

 

I'd say the hardest tones for modelers to nail are the barely breaking up tones, whether that's a Tweed Deluxe, AC15, AC30, 18W Marshall, JTMs... the cleans are close, the really crunchy stuff is pretty close, but I've still never heard anything that can sound at all like my Vox on 7. With how I run it, that's right where it's clean but with a touch of hair all around, then really responds to your pick. Modelers just can't do that. The HDs... Tonelabs... AxeFX... They try, but they fail.

 

To sort of pick on the Mustang for a moment, one thing that didn't impress me about the Mustang II is how, if you dial in a basic clean tone using the Twin model and a basic clean tone using the Deluxe Reverb model, they sound different, but the Twin doesn't sound any bigger. Having both amps in the same room, the Twin sounds about four times as big. No idea how to do that in a modeler, but I think they basically took the same model and slightly tweaked it. Those two models in the Mustang don't really respond differently... they just sound a tad different and truthfully, I'd rather have just had a completely different model rather than those two. They both sound great, but the Deluxe model always sounded a tad better to me.

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To sort of pick on the Mustang for a moment, one thing that didn't impress me about the Mustang II is how, if you dial in a basic clean tone using the Twin model and a basic clean tone using the Deluxe Reverb model, they sound different, but the Twin doesn't sound any bigger.

 

 

Agreed.

 

The other thing about the twin model on the mustang is that its volume relative to the other models is lower, by a lot. Twins should be big, and LOUD!

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The other thing about the twin model on the mustang is that its volume relative to the other models is lower, by a lot. Twins should be big, and LOUD!

 

True kind of a let down for sure. You can put the commpressor on it for loud and clean but shouldn't have to.

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True kind of a let down for sure. You can put the commpressor on it for loud and clean but shouldn't have to.

 

 

I wish the fender reps on their forum/board would comment on stuff like that.

 

Oh well, it's something that can be overcome - but it makes me wonder why things are that way.

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Yep, have to do that. I've been looking at the 5E3 schematics quite a bit. If do go this route I'd really like to graft in a reverb at the least, and more of a tonestack. I'm guessing it's been done before.

 

I'm sure the EQ has been done. Not 100% sure which ones are which, but there are a couple derivatives of the 5E3... there's one with bigger transformers and it runs 6L6s for more headroom... there's one with Bass/Treble/Presence and there's one that is just the three standard 5E3 controls. I've never played either of those, but I have played a Tweed Bandmaster and it has MUCH more headroom than the 5E3. Like night and day difference. Of course, it has 4 10" speakers so that alone probably more than doubles the clean volume capability. I'd like something in between those two. I'd like to spend some time with the Mesa Transatlantic through more Tweed-friendly speakers and I'd like to play a Tone King Imperial. If it is 50% better than the 60W Fender Super Sonic, and did so with less noise, it would be a beast of an amp to have around.

 

On the reverb issue... I'm sure you could add in a reverb circuit, but I think I'd be tempted to add an FX loop and just use a pedal with a better than average spring reverb... Digitech Hardwire, Neunaber Wet, Wampler, Strymon Blue Sky or something like that. Not to say any of those are equal to a a tube-driven reverb with a nice big Accutronics 3 spring pan, but it's just more economical if you have multiple amps that need reverb. My three main amps all lack reverb and three of the next four amps on my wish list are all reverb-challenged.

 

:lol:

 

One good pedal I could move around would probably save a few hundred in hardware costs plus all the parts and labor of splicing them into the circuit, adding pots to the control panel, perhaps widening the chassis for extra tubes and a larger board...

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Hrmm... hard to say. I will say they both do Vox and Fender usably well, but the Mustang certainly does better Fender tones than the Valvetronix does. The thing about the Valvetronix (at least the 22 amp model version) is they have so many Vox amp models to work with, it's very easy to get close. I'd say the Mustang Vox tones sound more believable on the higher crunch levels than on the clean tones. I have a Tonelab (which, granted isn't exactly the same as the Valvetronix amps, but close...) and they do a very decent clean Vox tone, both with Top Boost and without. I haven't tried any of the Vox tones in the AxeFX, but I'd have to say the Tonelab does the best Vox models I've ever heard at any price including the Line 6 HD500.

 

 

 

I recently got a Tonelab St. Someone (not Vox) has developed a editor for it thats on the Vox ToneLab site. I usually don't say much about amps and modelers, but after changing out the original Ruby tube and putting in a Tung-Sol tube, and running this latest editor, it sounds unreal actually, so many effects and amp models to choose from and edit and the sound really is unreal.

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I recently got a Tonelab St. Someone (not Vox) has developed a editor for it thats on the Vox ToneLab site. I usually don't say much about amps and modelers, but after changing out the original Ruby tube and putting in a Tung-Sol tube, and running this latest editor, it sounds unreal actually, so many effects and amp models to choose from and edit and the sound really is unreal.

 

Hrmm... I'd have to think that 99.5% of the difference is in the software, not the tube. :idk:

 

I'd love to check it out, but my Tonelab doesn't have USB, just the MIDI to USB and I don't have that cable.

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