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General advice for a tube n00b - Tips I need to know before buying?


fiveoclockhero

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I have been away from guitar playing for years now and I'm just now getting back to it. I love Tele's and I'm now a proud owner of a brand new Classic Vibe 50's Tele. I also need a new amp and I definitely want something powered by tubes. In the past, I've had solid state amps for the usual reasons: cheaper, easier to take care of, smaller and lighter but the tone was lacking and I'm not going through the disappointment of constricted, nasal, fizzy tone. I want something warm, organic, loud and rich... I want a tube amp!

 

It doesn't have to be very powerful and it doesn't have to be expensive, so I am leaning toward the 15 watt Fender Super Champ XD hybrid amp. Do you think this is a good choice? What is the practical and tonal differences between all-tube and hybrid amps?

 

More importantly, what do I need to know as a tube newbie? I have no knowledge of care and upkeep, except that I am aware that tubes do need replaced from time to time, correct? How often? Is overheating a serious problem? Are there things I need to know for transportation or regular maintenance? Maybe I'm just overthinking? :rolleyes:

 

Thanks for any and all words of encouragement and information. Also, I'm new here so Hello. :wave: Is this the part where I ask "wat is teh best guitar 4 M3+AL??!?!"

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Fender Super Champ XD has nice Fender cleans.

Marshall Class 5

Vox Night Train 15

 

are a few I would try out

 

Modern tube amps are pretty low mantance. A set of tubes should easy last you 5 years or more.

You just have to try a few out. They all have there own vibe. I like nice cleans with a little headroom. Others like amps that start breaking up pretty much off the bat.

 

I have a SCXD ,it's a great little amp with 5 year warrenty. I don't use the DSP effects much. Have a fish ands chips and bad monkey infront of it.

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Welcome to the forum! :wave:

 

There are a few things I've noticed about tube amps, coming from many years of solid state.

First, they are build to be played loud! They sound very good at low levels, but if you're looking for breakup you wont find the sweet spot until the volume is half or more.

 

Second, they need time to warm up. I've noticed with my little Champion 600 and my Classic 30 they sound fine when I turn them on, but a half hour later they sound great.

 

Third, there are two "tube sounds" that people search for. A tight, modern, heavy metal distortion is achieved by saturating the preamp tubes. That's what the Gain is for. A big, warm, blues/classic rock overdrive is achieved by saturating the power tubes. That can only be done by cranking the volume. If you have a Master Volume or an attenuator you can get that sound at lower volumes, but the principle is the same.

 

The SCXD is a genuine tube amp. The signal goes through a tube preamp (12AX7) and a tube power section (6V6). It also has an effects unit in it (DSP), but if you use channel 1 it's a straight forward Class A sound.

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Welcome to the forum!
:wave:

There are a few things I've noticed about tube amps, coming from many years of solid state.

First, they are build to be played loud! They sound very good at low levels, but if you're looking for breakup you wont find the sweet spot until the volume is half or more.


Second, they need time to warm up. I've noticed with my little Champion 600 and my Classic 30 they sound fine when I turn them on, but a half hour later they sound great.


Third, there are two "tube sounds" that people search for. A tight, modern, heavy metal distortion is achieved by saturating the preamp tubes. That's what the Gain is for. A big, warm, blues/classic rock overdrive is achieved by saturating the power tubes. That can only be done by cranking the volume. If you have a Master Volume or an attenuator you can get that sound at lower volumes, but the principle is the same.


The SCXD is a genuine tube amp. The signal goes through a tube preamp (12AX7) and a tube power section (6V6). It also has an effects unit in it (DSP), but if you use channel 1 it's a straight forward Class A sound.

 

The SCXD is not a pure tube amp. The OP correctly classified the SCXD as a hybrid. It has a solid state preamp, even on channel 1. The 12AX7 is a phase inverter / gain stage to the power section. That said and as a happy SCXD owner it has a great tube tone on channel 1 and produces excellent tone at lower and higher volumes

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Words of encouragement. First things first - you want a great clean lively tone for the Tele. This is a good feature of an XD and even better with a change of valves (one of my 6v6's gave up after 9 months, the pair were replaced). So practically tubes are maybe more likely to fail, but it's worth the money to replace them. Some of the older modeled amps work really well on this amp. But this is a really competitive market so have a look at Peavey and the rest as well.

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The best match for a tele I have heard from among modern production valve amps is the Fender Bassman reissue, but it's not very cheap - a match made in heaven. I like the Peavey Classic 30, and the of course the AC15, which is quite reasonable... but you need to put in that treble cut on Voxes with a tele!

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The SCXD is not a pure tube amp. The OP correctly classified the SCXD as a hybrid.
It has a solid state preamp, even on channel 1. The 12AX7 is a phase inverter / gain stage to the power section.
That said and as a happy SCXD owner it has a great tube tone on channel 1 and produces excellent tone at lower and higher volumes

 

No kidding!

 

I stand corrected, thanks :)

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For a very affordable, and great sounding amp, try to get a Crate Vintage club. If you go for the 30 or 50 watt you get a clean channel that was voiced to sound like a 59 bassman, and a gain channel voiced to sound a like a Marshall Plexi. I have the 50 watt 2x12 and love it. It started red plating last year and I'm about to go through it and fix the problem. I have a Crate V50 that if it took a dive I'd just strip it out and use the chassis and iron to build another amp all together. Its got a good clean channel but the gain channel is a waste of good preamp tubes. The 20 watt Vintage Clubs are a single channel that really give a great Marshally vibe. I have an 11 year old son and a 13 year old daughter who are wanting to start playing guitar. I am planning to get a couple VC20s for them to learn on. That way they can have great tone and a good amp to play with others as well when they get older and want to get together with freinds and play.

 

I'll agree with the Fender champ as well. I LOVE the 6V6 tube, it has a sweet brea up...in fact I am thinking on modding my Vintage Club to take a quad of them!!! You can find great deals on Craigslist for vintage Fender amps. If I had the dough I'd be hell bent to buy a few. I'd love a Super Reverb or a Deluxe.

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If you're looking at the SCXD you owe it to yourself to check out the Vox Valvetronics (VT series) stuff as well. If/when you do, be sure to explore in manual mode (not preset mode). Depending on the type of tones you're after you will probably find you prefer either the Fender or Vox as they each have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

If you end up going full tube remember that for home use, it is very easy to go too big with regard to power. Also, many of the real small tube amps have no onboard reverb (something I can't do without), so then you find yourself spending more money to address that.

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I just bought a CV '50s Tele myself - seriously, like 3 hours ago - and I've been playing it through my Champ 600 this afternoon. Pretty good match. The Champ is $150 or so and really great for bedroom playing and recording.

 

I usually play through a DRRI but I haven't bothered to haul it in from the next room. The CV sounds really great through the little Champ (a little bright - but that's because of the new .09s the CV comes with). All of my single coils sound good through the Champ (great cleans and really nice with an OD (OCD, etc. especially).

 

Check it out - It's cheap, sounds good, takes pedals well, and looks cool, too - Def. a vintage vibe, right in line with the CV Tele).

 

Yeah.

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Thanks for the great replies, everybody. :) Lots of cool, knowledgeable people on this forum. I appreciate it. All good advice and stuff I'll take into consideration.

 

General questions: How can you know for sure when tubes need to be replaced? Does it just kind of die out on you? Also, what is "biasing" and how does it work? I don't plan on doing any mods or anything that only a tech should perform but I'd like to know just for the sake of intellectual curiosity. (Sorry for potentially dumb and/or obvious questions).

 

EDIT: Also, about hybrid amps... does the solid state preamp really affect your tone? I know Meowy said that the SCXD is more than capable of getting quality tube sounds but I'm wondering what the practical differences are, in terms of sound, between all tube versus hybrids. The SCXD sounds quite excellent to my ears but I haven't spent enough time experimenting with it to say that it's ideal.

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Thanks for the great replies, everybody.
:)
Lots of cool, knowledgeable people on this forum. I appreciate it. All good advice and stuff I'll take into consideration.


General questions: How can you know for sure when tubes need to be replaced? Does it just kind of die out on you? Also, what is "biasing" and how does it work? I don't plan on doing any mods or anything that only a tech should perform but I'd like to know just for the sake of intellectual curiosity. (Sorry for potentially dumb and/or obvious questions).


EDIT: Also, about hybrid amps... does the solid state preamp really affect your tone? I know Meowy said that the SCXD is more than capable of getting quality tube sounds but I'm wondering what the practical differences are, in terms of sound, between all tube versus hybrids. The SCXD sounds quite excellent to my ears but I haven't spent enough time experimenting with it to say that it's ideal.

 

You don't have to worry about "biasing" . Best done by a tech or someone that knows what there doing.

A tube amp holds a charge after they are unplugged. In some cases it's enough to kill a person. Best not to poke around inside them untill you do your homework.

 

Solid state preamps are pretty common in tube amps now. More stable.

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Good question from Mistersully (you'll find he does that a lot)

 

A number of amps are cathode (or fixed) bias. As a result those don't need to be biased. I think most Mesas are that way but they aren't starter amps

 

Although some folks can't live without certain things (like reverb mentioned above) if you are using a particular amp only for recording you can often add reverb post recording so MrSully's question is very good since you might be able to get away with somethings in one situation that you might not in another depending on your preference

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I really like the SCXD as a practice amp. It sounds great out of the box (even better with tube and speaker swap) and it is pretty versatile. It has a great clean channel and quite a few of the models are pretty nice too (esp fender ones) It's 15 watts but it can get quite loud.

 

As far as small amps go I have an SCXD, a Blackheart BH5 and a blackstar HT-5. I use the SCXD 95% of the time. If I'd the SCXD first I probably wouldn't have the other two.

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I have been away from guitar playing for years now and I'm just now getting back to it. I love Tele's and I'm now a proud owner of a brand new Classic Vibe 50's Tele. I also need a new amp and I definitely want something powered by tubes. In the past, I've had solid state amps for the usual reasons: cheaper, easier to take care of, smaller and lighter but the tone was lacking
and I'm not going through the disappointment of constricted, nasal, fizzy tone. I want something warm, organic, loud and rich... I want a tube amp!


It doesn't have to be very powerful and it doesn't have to be expensive, so I am leaning toward the 15 watt Fender Super Champ XD hybrid amp. Do you think this is a good choice? What is the practical and tonal differences between all-tube and hybrid amps?


More importantly, what do I need to know as a tube newbie? I have no knowledge of care and upkeep, except that I am aware that tubes do need replaced from time to time, correct? How often? Is overheating a serious problem? Are there things I need to know for transportation or regular maintenance? Maybe I'm just overthinking?
:rolleyes:

Thanks for any and all words of encouragement and information. Also, I'm new here so Hello.
:wave:
Is this the part where I ask "wat is teh best guitar 4 M3+AL??!?!"

 

Something old and bluesy, with maybe with some classic rock crunch on tap at the most? Or something tighter and a little more "rawk!" It makes a difference, you can get either, but really get both convincingly.

 

If you want to experience a tube amp, then why not get a tube amp. A simple design with a few bells and whistles and as basic a circuit as possible, the less there is in the chassis, the more each component, including tubes, really gets to shine. I won't steer you away from the SCXD, it's a nice sounding amp, with swiss-army knife capability, but there is something nice about a simple tube circuit with the volume turned up to the saturation point and the guitar turned down a little to compensate.

 

Give us a top end number on price, a few examples of the tone you want, and an idea of the playing setup, and we can steer you right. I try an afford endorsing amps that are more than 20 years old because you never know what TLC they may need to be reliable, I love vitnage amps, have plenty, but I do my own amp work, but I don't want to saddle someone with an issue that will require bench fees right out of the gate.

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i have a crate vintage club 20 and I love it, also had a vintage club 30 and that thing was too damn loud but sounded tits!

 

i have played some of the jet city and bugera amps, the bugeras sound better to my ears.

 

i needed an amp that could do cleans at a reasonable level at home, yet still be loud enough to jam with my friends where a lil overdrive is cool, so the 15 watt 1x10 vintage club is pretty good, with a speaker upgrade/increase with a more sensitive speaker this could be a giggin amp. the 10 inch speaker sounds big, until it gets pushed, where it shows it limitations.

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Something old and bluesy, with maybe with some classic rock crunch on tap at the most? Or something tighter and a little more "rawk!" It makes a difference, you can get either, but really get both convincingly.


If you want to experience a tube amp, then why not get a tube amp. A simple design with a few bells and whistles and as basic a circuit as possible, the less there is in the chassis, the more each component, including tubes, really gets to shine. I won't steer you away from the SCXD, it's a nice sounding amp, with swiss-army knife capability, but there is something nice about a simple tube circuit with the volume turned up to the saturation point and the guitar turned down a little to compensate.


Give us a top end number on price, a few examples of the tone you want, and an idea of the playing setup, and we can steer you right. I try an afford endorsing amps that are more than 20 years old because you never know what TLC they may need to be reliable, I love vitnage amps, have plenty, but I do my own amp work, but I don't want to saddle someone with an issue that will require bench fees right out of the gate.

 

That's food for thought, isn't it? :) I want something that gives me really nice, jangly cleans which is why I find a Fender amp so enticing to begin with. Something that can approximate Britpop or old Johnny Marr sounds. Also, I love the old smokey blues tones that you can get out of a Tele's neck pickup so I want something kind of vintage-sounding for that application. And I also need to have an overdriven tone that's aggressive enough to handle old-school punk rock. No, it doesn't have to be super tight and I will never, ever play metal but I don't want something completely wimpy, either. And I want that all in the same amp. :p I'm sorry... is that terrible? Am I asking too much? I do have good taste but I'm also very practical and well-aware that there is no one amp that can do everything perfectly so I remain flexible.

 

What I DON'T want is something with fizzy, hissy distortion or bottom end that's so tight and nasal that it doesn't allow the notes to "breathe". I don't want something with shrill, whiney highs or clanky metallic lows. Sorry if these descriptors are too obtuse.

 

Also, I can't spend more than $500. I don't think I should have to and I hope I don't.

 

Regarding the Jet City amps: The price sure is right but I would have to hear them in person first.

 

Regarding tinkering with my amp: Nope, I'll never even attempt it. I just get curious about the textbook definitions of some of the terms I hear floating around. I'll have to read up more on the science aspect of tube amps but if anyone wants to share pointers or lessons, I'm all ears.

 

Big, big thanks to each and every person who's contributed their thoughts and/or suggestions thus far. Every post has been informative and I'll take them all into consideration. :)

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For the time being, I will be using it for practice at home (I live in an apartment). In the future, I might also be using it for home recording or possibly in a band, playing small to medium sized gigs but those are just possibilities and not entirely certain. This is why an absolute powerhouse isn't necessary and I'm sure a small-sized tube amp will suffice. I play blues, garage rock, punk, indie and some pop.

 

 

i think there's a few ways to go about it

 

if you're looking for natural overdrive from a tube amp, 5 watts can be too loud for an apartment... yet isn't really going to cut it later on if you're in a band situation

that's why many people compromise... and get their overdriven tones at home by either a) using an amp with a master volume... where you can crank the gain a bit and leave the master down.. b) using a pedal... or c) using an attenuator

and then crank their amps a bit in a band situation

 

if i were you i'd choose a few different amps... then take my guitar and go and play through them.. then look at the used market

 

my gut feeling is that an ac15 would be a good amp for you to try as it has a master volume and those great vox cleans... i also think a classic 30 is a cool first tube amp... i haven't played through a super champ xd

 

there's really a bunch of different amps though that could suit... my advice is to play through as many as you can... and try them at the settings you'd be using them eg. at volumes you can get away with at home.. then see how they open up if the situation permits

 

lastly... keep an open mind about using a pedal for getting your overdrive at home and for recording

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I certainly love Vox clean tones, no doubt about that. Their classic models are just impeccable. A lot of the AC15's I'm seeing are a tiny bit more expensive that what I budgeted for, so maybe I'll wait for a good bargain. Then again, I can get an SCXD, which sound excellent and is super-versatile for my budgeted price brand new right now. Not to mention the Crate Vintage Club and Peavey Classic and all the other options that people have listed above. I feel spoiled for choice. :)

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I just bought a CV '50s Tele myself - seriously, like 3 hours ago - and I've been playing it through my Champ 600 this afternoon. Pretty good match. The Champ is $150 or so and really great for bedroom playing and recording.


I usually play through a DRRI but I haven't bothered to haul it in from the next room. The CV sounds really great through the little Champ (a little bright - but that's because of the new .09s the CV comes with). All of my single coils sound good through the Champ (great cleans and really nice with an OD (OCD, etc. especially).


Check it out - It's cheap, sounds good, takes pedals well, and looks cool, too - Def. a vintage vibe, right in line with the CV Tele).


Yeah.

 

 

I've yet to find a guitar that doesn't sound good through the Champ. They do benefit greatly from some upgrades, too.

 

EG

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