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40% Tax on Goods Imported into the USA - What would it mean for guitars?

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  • #46
    Yes, protectionism never works. Except...

    Except that no nation has ever successfully industrialized except behind substantial tariff barriers. England, the United States, France, Germany, Japan, South Korea all maintained significant tariffs during the period of their industrialization; they shifted to "free trade" (always more practiced than preached--note the massive subsidies that continue to sustain agriculture in almost all these nations) only once they had become dominant industrial powers--and "free trade" was a way to bludgeon trading partners into opening their markets. In recent decades, China's massive industrialization has occurred behind enormous barriers to market access, though often in forms a little more subtle than tariffs (currency manipulation, discriminatory rule-making, demands for "technology exchange").

    Economists insist that protectionism never works. History tells a different story.


    +1000000 but you will never get the brainwashed masses to understand.
    Lefty 1986 Carvin V220 Lefty Edwards Les Paul
    Lefty 1990 Carvin DC150 Lefty Dillion Les Paul
    Lefty 2005 Jackson DK2 Lefty SX Tele
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    Lefty POS Mitchell Acoustic
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    • #47
      Yes, protectionism never works. Except...

      Except that no nation has ever successfully industrialized except behind substantial tariff barriers. England, the United States, France, Germany, Japan, South Korea all maintained significant tariffs during the period of their industrialization; they shifted to "free trade" (always more practiced than preached--note the massive subsidies that continue to sustain agriculture in almost all these nations) only once they had become dominant industrial powers--and "free trade" was a way to bludgeon trading partners into opening their markets. In recent decades, China's massive industrialization has occurred behind enormous barriers to market access, though often in forms a little more subtle than tariffs (currency manipulation, discriminatory rule-making, demands for "technology exchange").

      Economists insist that protectionism never works. History tells a different story.


      I'm not particularly sold on free trade. However, I'm pretty certain than a 40 percent tariff on all goods coming into the U.S. would be devastating.
      No sig.

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      • #48
        What about non-Union manufacturing like we have down South? The quality on the non-Union built Toyotas (for example, I don't own/would never buy a Toyota) seem to have a reputation for high quality?


        "...the latest recall may make it harder for Toyota to convince investors it has put its quality problems behind it." http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre70p2ec-us-toyota-recall/

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        • #49
          Not even getting into things like a trade war, etc.. the net effect would be much poorer Americans. Sure, we'd have more American made goods, but the prices on just about everything we buy would go up significantly. That means we'd have a lot less disposable income and the things we'd buy what that disposable income would cost a lot more. When you have little to no extra money to spend and the budget guitars now cost $600, how many are you going to buy? This will also hurt guitar sales and put people out of business and cost jobs too.

          Protectionism doesn't work out the way some people think it will.


          (Referring to the bold part of your statement above). As opposed to the numbers that are out of work or under employed that have less disposable income now under the current scheme?!

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          • #50
            Just to be clear, a 40 percent trade tariff would violate the many free trade agreements the U.S. has made, it would lead to dozens of complaints against the U.S. at the World Trade Organization, it would create a huge and costly trade war, and it would lead to U.S. consumers paying a lot more -- at least 40 percent -- for many of the products we expect to be cheap and easily available.


            Well, this is exactly what the US did a few years back over the softwood lumber dispute with Canada. The US was in the wrong and was continually ruled against by the NAFTA people but they just kept doing it anyway. The US government has a history of disregarding agreements when it suits their purposes and not really caring much about the consequences.
            -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-

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            • #51
              Looks like somebody already beat them to it:



              I don't know which countries fall into Column 2.

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              • #52
                Location as well -- I believe people in the south have more pride in the work they do than jaded northerners -


                **************** you and your stereotypes.
                Lefty 1986 Carvin V220 Lefty Edwards Les Paul
                Lefty 1990 Carvin DC150 Lefty Dillion Les Paul
                Lefty 2005 Jackson DK2 Lefty SX Tele
                Lefty 2006 Variax 500 Lefty Carvin Cobalt
                Lefty 2007 MIA Fender Stratocaster
                Lefty POS Mitchell Acoustic
                Lefty 2007 Yamaha AES 620

                Peavey Classic 30 ( For Sale)
                Fender Blonde Supersonic
                Marshall AS50
                POD XT Live
                Boss BR600

                Comment


                • #53
                  And here I thought Southerners were a bunch of tobacco-chewing, pot-bellied, toothless, eight-grade dropouts. And that's just the ladies.

                  Kidding!
                  No sig.

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                  • #54
                    You speak of the hypothetical world where pure free trade exists (and pure capitalism etc). Yes, Every country everywhere has always had some self-interest they protect. Every country you mention had (and has) tariffs, but realized quickly they would kill their economy if they continued at stupid levels. Even China is starting to realize it. History really doesn't tell a different story.

                    Yes, protectionism never works. Except...

                    Except that no nation has ever successfully industrialized except behind substantial tariff barriers. England, the United States, France, Germany, Japan, South Korea all maintained significant tariffs during the period of their industrialization; they shifted to "free trade" (always more practiced than preached--note the massive subsidies that continue to sustain agriculture in almost all these nations) only once they had become dominant industrial powers--and "free trade" was a way to bludgeon trading partners into opening their markets. In recent decades, China's massive industrialization has occurred behind enormous barriers to market access, though often in forms a little more subtle than tariffs (currency manipulation, discriminatory rule-making, demands for "technology exchange").

                    Economists insist that protectionism never works. History tells a different story.
                    Fender Am Std P5 Bass, Modified Squier P4, GB Shuttle 6, GK MB200
                    Warmoth Strat, Gibson LP DC, Edwards E-LP-98LTS
                    Various home-made amps/pedals, Lopo Line cabs

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                    • #55
                      Looks like somebody already beat them to it:



                      I don't know which countries fall into Column 2.


                      cuba and north korea.

                      thats a good thing to point out though. 40% isnt a tarrif its effectively trade sanctions.
                      ---
                      1959 is dead
                      http://acapella.harmony-central.com/...4#post46436574
                      ---

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                      • #56
                        Well, this is exactly what the US did a few years back over the softwood lumber dispute with Canada. The US was in the wrong and was continually ruled against by the NAFTA people but they just kept doing it anyway. The US government has a history of disregarding agreements when it suits their purposes and not really caring much about the consequences.


                        canada was eventually paid back most of the money owed, but thanks to a deal struck by out PM, they ran off with $1b of our money.
                        ---
                        1959 is dead
                        http://acapella.harmony-central.com/...4#post46436574
                        ---

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          YEvery country you mention had (and has) tariffs, but realized quickly they would kill their economy if they continued at stupid levels. Even China is starting to realize it. History really doesn't tell a different story.


                          Quickly? The US basically maintained high tariffs from 1861 until the 1970s, with a few short periods (e.g. 1913-1922) of reduced levels. In other words, during the entire time the US was becoming the world's leading industrial power. The enormous development China has accomplished in the last two decades occurred behind enormous trade barriers. Maybe they're going to go in a different direction, but I'll believe it when I see it. Sorry, history powerfully refutes free-trade ideology.

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                          • #58
                            If 'free-trade ideology' is such a failure, then why did the US (and every other country) eventually lower/remove these 'high tariffs'? Why not just keep them high (or even make them higher)? Why ruin a winning formula?

                            Maybe they're going to go in a different direction, but I'll believe it when I see it. Sorry, history powerfully refutes free-trade ideology.
                            Fender Am Std P5 Bass, Modified Squier P4, GB Shuttle 6, GK MB200
                            Warmoth Strat, Gibson LP DC, Edwards E-LP-98LTS
                            Various home-made amps/pedals, Lopo Line cabs

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              In regards to the OP's original post: I have been telling people on this forum for 4 years to start accumulating the exact gear they want now as things are going to go south fast.
                              It does take time to get the gear you might hopefully be happy with, but the US is being lead by jack asses who haven't got a ****************ing clue how to run a successful business, let alone a country.
                              Causing prices to go through the roof by charging tariffs will not necessarily mean that manufacturing in this country will be able to compete. Why? Because most of the **************** is made in China to begin with. There isn't much manufacturing here now, and certainly not in affordable guitars, amps, and effects, such as are produced overseas.

                              I have taken three years to get as close as I can to having the exact gear that I want to use, but I'm still working on it and might need another year. Even if the government does not charge a 40% tarriff on imported goods, it will be some obnoxious amount that will still piss off every one of us to some extent.

                              I will not be deterred from buying what I want from where I want, and screw the ****************ing government for thinking they can control where and how much I spend. It might take me longer, but I will not be swayed by the **************** thought up by those lame bastards in Washington.
                              Two of the nicest gentlemen, and most talented people: Mssr's Diezel and Krampe.
                              Je préfèrerais mourir sans un sou dans une rue en Europe que de vivre en Amérique sous l'administration actuelle. Alizée est la meilleure. Vous, les princesses pop américaines, n'avez aucun talent, aucune classe, et vous sonnez comme de la merde. Sarkozy et le reste de l'Europe se moquent de notre président dans son dos.

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                              • #60
                                Its a horrible idea. American workers are fat, lazy, and don't care - the blue collar working class, unions, and the companies they work for and are involved with care more about themselves (benefits, profits, more money) than producing a good product, their customers, and pride in the job they do. Generally speaking, American craftsmanship sucks and its no wonder factory jobs have been shipped off and remain there. I know that's a broad brush, but it is true. There are some exceptions to the rule.

                                I had some recent dealings with a labor official, just mind blowing what the attitude was. I try to buy American products but frankly, I'm tired of paying more and being burned time after time after time. My fairly new Chrysler Town & Country is a piece of junk, the recent Gibson I had shipped to me had just horrible QC (well documented here in the HGEG). I'm going foreign from here on out I think. Made in America is a thing of the past to me.



                                I have found this out as well, and have gone thoroughly European in my purchasing, whenever possible. I am much happier now then at any time in my 55 years of playing guitars.

                                I used to be "buy American only". Then I started trying and liking the quality, sound, and service of companies based in western Europe. They are way ahead of america in many ways, not just in music gear. Fender and Gibson still base their products on 50+ year old ideas, even though there are small improvements here and there. It gets old after awhile. I want to see better made gear with improvements that are up-to-date. I am not finding them in america, but I am finding them in Europe. The improvements I am seeking are there, so that is where my money will continue to go, even with tarriffs.
                                Two of the nicest gentlemen, and most talented people: Mssr's Diezel and Krampe.
                                Je préfèrerais mourir sans un sou dans une rue en Europe que de vivre en Amérique sous l'administration actuelle. Alizée est la meilleure. Vous, les princesses pop américaines, n'avez aucun talent, aucune classe, et vous sonnez comme de la merde. Sarkozy et le reste de l'Europe se moquent de notre président dans son dos.

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