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Gibson and Flat Top Frets. WHY!?!


photon9

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I don't get why Gibson puts flat top frets on basically all of their guitars. Is there some reason for this that I've never heard of? It makes me feel like it's unfinished. It hampers slides. It feels funky as all hell. There's really no reason for them to be that way as a cost cutting means since most Gibsons are Plekked. Is it simply another Henry J. "innovation". I'm being dead serious here because I'd love to add an SG to my collection at some point but this is a total deal-killer and I can't seem to find any with normal frets. And unfortunately Epis don't feature a smooth neck joint like Gibbys.

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It's not Heny J, they've been that way long before he had control of Gibson.

 

The overly-leveled "schoolbus" frets have been something of a traditional for Gibson for some time, I'm not old enough to know how long. I'll assume it was a deliberate choice. This is the company that debuted the "fretless wonder" frets in the late '50's (super short and rather wide and flat). Gibson (and Ampeg) was a company intertwined with, and almost entirely dedicated to, jazz guitar, and I think this is a preference from jazz guitars at the time that held over as a Gibson aesthetic.

 

It is also definitely a cost-cutting measure. It allows them to quickly install frets with no concern of how level they are installed (or how level the fretboard is) and then grind them down nice and even. Dressing? Crowning? Nope.

 

My old Goldtop needed a refret and it plays better than ever with tall, well-dressed, well-crowned 6105's, I only wish I had had stainless ones installed.

 

In the case of the OP, buy the SG and then have a pro go and round and crown the frets.

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I have three Gibson's and no idea what you're talking about.

 

Gibson is famous for their "school bus" or "train-track" frets, which are very flat across the top. A properly dressed fret is perfectly round with a single point of contact with the string.

 

Their frets look like the bottom ones right out of the factory. I have no idea if this is different now that they plek, but like I said above, it's become part of the Gibson aesthetic.

 

Fret20wear.gif

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Gibson is famous for their "school bus" or "train-track" frets, which are very flat across the top. A properly dressed fret is perfectly round with a single point of contact with the string.


Their frets look like the bottom ones right out of the factory. I have no idea if this is different now that they plek, but like I said above, it's become part of the Gibson aesthetic.


Fret20wear.gif

 

other than having to adjust the bridge down a 1/2 fret, would flat top frets make any functional dif? personally, i like the feel of worn down flat frets.

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Gibson is famous for their "school bus" or "train-track" frets, which are very flat across the top. A properly dressed fret is perfectly round with a single point of contact with the string.


Their frets look like the bottom ones right out of the factory. I have no idea if this is different now that they plek, but like I said above, it's become part of the Gibson aesthetic.


Fret20wear.gif

 

Wasn't that something from the 70's crap they built ? None of the new guitars I've played or owned were like that.

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other than having to adjust the bridge down a 1/2 fret, would flat top frets make any functional dif? personally, i like the feel of worn down flat frets.

 

 

There are host of things that can be going on. But preference and playing style factor in as well.

 

The smaller the contact area, the crisper and clearer the note rings. Consider trying to hit a crisp snare drum beat with a paint stirrer.

 

Plus, less resistance for smoother bending.

 

And with taller frets, here is less of a tendency to want to use too much pressure push the fret to the fretboard and make it go sharp. Many guitarist feel the play cleaner and more accurately with tall, crowned frets. That may or may not be a placebo effect.

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Wasn't that something from the 70's crap they built ? None of the new guitars I've played or owned were like that.

 

That's an extreme example (I'm not wasting time making my own graphics), but illustrated my point. Still, the wide, flat-ish frets are part of the Gibson style. Like I said, I haven't kept up with how their plek'ed guitars look (I haven't had to buy a guitar in 12 years), but this is one of Gibson's own marketing shots...the frets are very flat and squared off.

 

DSRXSTGH1_FW.jpg

 

Here's a relatively recent example of a LP Classic brand new from the store and then after it was professionally crowned, which is the difference between an assembly-line guitar made by an unskilled laborer and the detail work of a luthier. Looking at dozens of fret shots from gibson.com, the difference between production and Custom Shop fret dress is night and day.

 

fret_dress_2ntg.jpg

 

Gibson actually recommends having their frets professionally stoned and crowned regularly in their manual.

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I don't get why Gibson puts flat top frets on basically all of their guitars. Is there some reason for this that I've never heard of? It makes me feel like it's unfinished. It hampers slides. It feels funky as all hell. There's really no reason for them to be that way as a cost cutting means since most Gibsons are Plekked. Is it simply another Henry J. "innovation". I'm being dead serious here because I'd love to add an SG to my collection at some point but this is a total deal-killer and I can't seem to find any with normal frets. And unfortunately Epis don't feature a smooth neck joint like Gibbys.

 

 

Ive bought alot of gibsons over the years. All had perfectly crowned frets. If you're coming across flat frets either thay are worn by the user or they were leveled and not crownes. you do find alot of old gibbys with flatter frets because thay havent been refretted yet. Refretting is much more expensive on bound necks and even more if want to retain the littel bumpe in the binding where the frets are. Gibson necks are freted in the factory before the binding is installed. The higher refret cost can be $400~500 and its why you see more of them around with worn frets. Not because thay come that way, its because of the refretting difficulty. The super jumbos do last longer so refretting isnt needed as often as a fender neck.

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Every Gibson I've ever seen hanging in Guitar Center, brand new, had flat topped frets. I've even posted a similar question to the OP on more than one occasion, but I've come to the conclusion that it's what Gibson is best at: turning a cost-cutting maneuver into a 'feature.'

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And with taller frets, here is less of a tendency to want to use too much pressure push the fret to the fretboard and make it go sharp. Many guitarist
feel
the play cleaner and more accurately with tall, crowned frets. That may or may not be a placebo effect.

 

 

I think it's a very real effect. It at least makes you realize how little pressure you need when your fingers aren't pressing into the board. I actually think it helped my technique after refretting one of mine with tall, narrow frets.

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Every Gibson I've ever seen hanging in Guitar Center, brand new, had flat topped frets. I've even posted a similar question to the OP on more than one occasion, but I've come to the conclusion that it's what Gibson is best at: turning a cost-cutting maneuver into a 'feature.'

Fender did it, too. It's just Leo was better at it.

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Can't comment on gibsons in general but the only time I have ever seen frets that round was after they were leveled / dressed at a shop on a guitar someone I know has. I've seen them rounded-ish, just not half circle or even close. What guitars are like that new?

Gibson is famous for their "school bus" or "train-track" frets, which are very flat across the top. A properly dressed fret is perfectly round with a single point of contact with the string.


Their frets look like the bottom ones right out of the factory. I have no idea if this is different now that they plek, but like I said above, it's become part of the Gibson aesthetic.


Fret20wear.gif

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Can't comment on gibsons in general but the only time I have ever seen frets that round was after they were leveled / dressed at a shop on a guitar someone I know has. I've seen them rounded-ish, just not half circle or even close. What guitars are like that new?

 

 

PRS beautifully crowns their frets AND rounds off the fret ends; some of the best fretwork I've seen on a mass-produced guitar. Believe it or not, early Schecter Diamond Series were just as good, back before the Diamond series took over their core business, the Schecter Custom Shop crowned the frets and setup every Diamond Series before it went to a dealer. I haven't looked at one in years, but the sheer volume of Diamond series they sell would imply they don't do that anymore.

 

But, otherwise, it's the kind of attention to detail you get when you walk away from the assembly line guitars. Suhrs, Tylers, McNaught, McInturff, Don Grosh, K-Line, Koll, Tom Anderson, B3, etc. Even may of the lower cost, parts guitars offered by someone who does a much more thorough job of set-up and fret dress.

 

But the fact is, any guitar can have it's frets crowned and polished, so it's never been a deal-breaker to me, I just figure the labor into the purchase price when necessary. And with really old guitar I look at, i just figure in a refret. If neither are necessary, it's a pleasant surprise.

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Interesting.... I have never given it much thought until recently, and it's opportune that this subject comes up now. I have an '84 LP Studio Custom that I bought new in '84. I started with an '83 Hondo II Professional LP. I found the Gibson so butter smooth to play. Fast forward to 2011 and I've had a GAS attack and procured a few new additions to the stable - a RevenWest LP (great guitar, weighs a ton!) and a Gitano LP (built pretty well for a "cheap" guitar). I began noticing the difference in feel between these new arrivals with big, round medium jumbo frets and my Gibson. The Gibson has much lower frets and, yes, they are flat topped. It's more noticeable on the ones I haven't attacked as much over the years, pretty much everything above the 12th fret! I do notice that I get a "release buzz" on the new ones - that short little buzz on the fret as you release the string, apparently not fast enough! I don't know how much is due to my hack technique, but I'm finding it taking some getting used to, and it's probably going to be a helpful thing for my fingering. My new favorite (other than my Gibson) is a Kona 335 style Flame Red with all black hardware. It has really nice frets, not as wide as the others and a little shorter in height - thinner, basically. The smoothness of the action is more reminiscent of my Gibson. I guess it may be more a matter of what you get used to playing. For me, I've been playing short flat-topped frets for so long that anything else feel alien!

 

Steve

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I love the Gibson flat fret tops on the Black Beauty and the seems like the Tobacco Burst too - these are two of the best playing guitars Gibson makes and some of thebest feeling guitars Ive ever played.

 

intonation is why you want a tight top in the frets.

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You can always have the frets crowned. I have a Stew Mac fret file and do it myself.
I consider frets a consumable item anyway, like tires on a car
.

 

 

I do to, but these days I am so impressed with the Dunlop 6105 style frets, I think in the future, as refret becomes necessary, I'm going to have stainless 6105's installed, regardless of model (or age).

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This is the reason I couldn't bond with my 2005 Les Paul Classic Gold Top. I got a great deal on it at the time and had always wanted a Gold Top, so I grabbed it. But the frets just never felt right. Too tall and flat. I picked up a 2008 Les Paul Jr. and its frets were more "normal" with the rounded edges, so I went with it. Plus the P-90 is super winning. I agree with the OP. Gibson should address those frets before they leave the factory.

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Yep - My 2005 LPS had the flat frets. I can't imagine the PLEK does this, now that they use that...although I'm sure it could be programmed to do virtually anything. Fortunately the frets were huge, and I had my local guy do a dress job on it, and now it's :love:.

 

Wyatt's right about the PRS. The frets on my SE series Korina were perfect out of the box. What's even wierder is that the only other guitar I've had with a perfect fret job off the shelf was a $150 Yamaha FG-700S.

 

Why the F can't the big guys do this for guitars that cost ten times as much? :facepalm:

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Why the F can't the big guys do this for guitars that cost ten times as much?
:facepalm:

 

If the guitar itself is pretty, and there's a famous name on the headstock, it'll sell. In the specs and features, you'll see what pickups are in it, how many frets, dimensions of the body and overall length, and what type of wood the guitar is made of, but you don't see "frets all nice and pretty" in that list.

 

Why? Because they can get away with it.

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