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I am completely musically illiterate.


thop

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Anybody else out there completely uneducated in music and theory? Anyone regret it? Appreciate it more? Do you feel like it limits you or frees you from the rules and structures?

 

I've been playing guitar for 15 years and don't even have a single scale memorized. I know major and minor chords and I learned everything else by feel. I took lessons for about a year when I was 12, once it got to reading more than one note at once I was completely hopeless so I dropped it and taught myself once I got the basics.

 

I only wanted to write songs and I was in punk bands so I never learned scales or practiced my chops, any successful improvising I can do now is based purely on my ear and estimated guessing of where the next note should be.

 

I stopped playing for most of my 20s so I could focus on getting wasted, and this year I picked it back up and want to learn to play for real. Can I be self taught? I got some books and websites and a tutoring program that I've been working with. I've seen some progress the past few months. Anyone learn with this method, or should I seek out some lessons?

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Music Theory and scales, technique, all that stuff are merely tools that help to produce music IMO... Much like any instrument. Nothing more, and nothing less. I've taken lessons from two people. One was awesome and helped me develop my own style with helpful hints and useful exercises. The other tried to force his style on me and I quit after a month. Lessons can be great with the right teacher and a burden with the wrong one.

 

It always is helpful to look at different books on the subject, chord books, scale books, transcriptions, etc., even read biographies of your favorite artist(s). Much like CPR, It's better to know something and not need it than to not know something and need it.

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We are thoroughly post-modern now, so don't view theory as a set of rules, view it as simply standardized descriptions of interaction, which you may apply as your muse requires. You can certainly learn yourself, though a good teacher will signifiantly expedite the process. Start off with the intervals, the base units of musical measurement, which describe the physical distances (in terms of half-steps/semitones) and fundamental harmonic interactions (ie, conventional roles and tonal qualifications) of the 12 semitones into which our system divides the octave. Scales, chords, really everything harmonic in our musical system is built directly from that set or can be understood in comparison, at least, as can quite a lot from other systems.

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i learned one scale in one key and where the notes on the fretboard are in about two weeks.


my playing improved by 100% after that.

 

I've learned a handful amount of scales and I still haven't learned where all the notes are. It's been about a month..:facepalm:

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I learned the major and penitonic scale. That's pretty easy just a few boxes. I can find any note on any string but I don't just know them all. I have to look at the nut and scale down sometimes.

 

I know all the notes on the first 2 strings though. Just from playing chords.

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(after elem. sch. band-fr hrn) i taught myself guitar w/a chord book and the radio (and a coupla hints from a friend-thnks randy!). didn't know theory, but i knew what the notes did and if i didn't, i did my best to find out. as long as you hear them in your head, you can play them (that's the rub and that's where the practice comes in...). just keep keepin' on and you'll get there!

p.s. eventually i did take music courses and learned the names that every body else used for the things that i'd stumbled on. now i can describe my musical rantings... ;)

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I'm pretty much in the same boat as DaleH. I consider myself to be largely unschooled in music theory. I've learned the major and minor pentatonic scales which definitely helped me to be able to jam along with blues based music. I'm not much good within the melodic scales. Still to this day if I'm going up the scale on the b and e strings, I sometimes get lost when I cut across the board to the lower strings. I know the patterns (boxes) of the scales all up and down the fb, and how the connect, but I can lose track of where I'm at when I've gone way up or way down the neck and then cut over. It bugs me that I don't visualize it completely beyond the three scale patterns within proximity. I also don't recognize most of the positions by their note name. I do know them all if i'm thinking about it as I go up a single string, but once again, if I start cutting over and was say on the 10th fret of the 3rd string and someone said, "stop - what note is that?" I'd only be able to say a half step below the one of the 11.

 

For where I have gotten though, understanding the major/minor bluesy pentatonic scales, this has been the best tool I've ever had. Big bang for the buck and in a real easy reference format, i.e. a dial.

 

""The five most commonly used scale patterns/positions are shown on the music dials for the blues scale, minor pentatonic scale, major blues scale and major pentatonic scale".

 

http://www.musicdials.com/gsolo.html

 

gsd.jpg

 

the reference numbers in the white boxes change as you turn the dial to your desired key.

 

gsdcu.jpg

 

I don't need the dials anymore because I've learned it, it's just that I still need to work on always knowing where the scale pattern is no matter where I end up on the neck and no matter what key I'm in.

I don't think that would be as much of a problem for me if I understood the theory of note progression better and had all the notes on the fretboard memorized.

 

The back of those boards always contains cool bits of theory too.

 

gsback.jpg

 

The back of the Guitar Solo Dial shows you:

How to play rock and blues solos

Four scales in each key

Playing scales

Note fingering

Notes on the guitar neck

 

And they have other dials as well

http://www.musicdials.com/guitar.html

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Is there a different between the harmonic minor and the relative minor? I kind of hate how open they are with the terms. I.E: from what I remember from various reading materials they called A minor C major's relative minor or harmonic minor.

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I have no idea where some people think it's OK to know no theory at all. It's fine if you're the only songwriter in your group and you're expecting other people to emulate you, but people like that are extremely frustrating to work with for people like me and will be replaced at first opportunity unless they're contributing in other valuable ways because they slow other people down. I want to be able to say, the chord progression is D major, C major, F major, G major, and have you figure out something you can play. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it should work.

 

I think it's not that important to know modes and all that crap because let's face it, most people won't need it. But when you play a note, you should know which note you're playing. Conversely, when someone tells you to play a note, you should be able to play that note. You should also know the other places where that note can be found on the fretboard. That's not the theory you think of in terms of classes, but I just think it's practical knowledge that any serious guitarist should have or seek to have. I've been playing guitar for just over four years now and I know what note I'm playing and I know at least five different ways to play a C major chord, so what's everyone else's excuse?

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I have no idea where some people think it's OK to know no theory at all. It's fine if you're the only songwriter in your group and you're expecting other people to emulate you, but people like that are extremely frustrating to work with for people like me and will be replaced at first opportunity unless they're contributing in other valuable ways because they slow other people down. I want to be able to say, the chord progression is D major, C major, F major, G major, and have you figure out something you can play. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it should work.


I think it's not that important to know modes and all that crap because let's face it, most people won't need it. But when you play a note, you should know which note you're playing. Conversely, when someone tells you to play a note, you should be able to play that note. You should also know the other places where that note can be found on the fretboard. That's not the theory you think of in terms of classes, but I just think it's practical knowledge that any serious guitarist should have or seek to have. I've been playing guitar for just over four years now and I know what note I'm playing and I know at least five different ways to play a C major chord, so what's everyone else's excuse?

 

 

No, when you play a note you should know what SOUND it's going to make. That's what playing guitar is about, it's not about looking at the fretboard, it's about what noise your guitar is going to make. I would consider myself a higher tier guitar player, I'm not amazing but I'm pretty damn good. But I don't know {censored} about music theory. I'm not saying that music theory wouldn't help, I know it would, I just play guitar because I love playing guitar and when I have to "study" it becomes a chore and something I lose interest in.

 

I've just seen so many guitar players get stuck in music theory, it becomes one big formula. Like when playing a solo instead of feeling the solo out it's like "ok, I can go here and then go here and bend here". I'm not trying to deter anyone from learning music theory, I just think in the end it comes down to talent, a good ear, and practice. That's going to determine whether you're a great guitar player or not.

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I'm not going to jump in somewhere and tell people what they do need, or don't need to know about anything, much less guitar or music. If you're playing your guitar, and it feels good and it sounds good, then :rawk: on.

 

However, knowing some theory has helped me IMMENSELY musically. It gives you a common language in which to a) converse with other musicians who play different instruments, and b)converse with YOUR instrument in a way that makes sense. Sure, you could randomly bang around and figure things out, learn some patterns that repeat up and down the neck - that's fine, no harm, you can get quite good doing just that. You can devour books/tutorials/tab sheets and learn stuff that way as well.

 

But, you can also learn WHY things sound the way the sound, what chords are called what and why, and with (a lot of) practice you can actually hear things in your head and know them before actually playing them.

 

Anyway, most of us are hobbyist players anyway. Some of us play in weekend bands, some have loftier gigs, whatever. Do what works for you and most importantly make some music.:cool::thu:

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I have no idea where some people think it's OK to know no theory at all. It's fine if you're the only songwriter in your group and you're expecting other people to emulate you, but people like that are extremely frustrating to work with for people like me and will be replaced at first opportunity unless they're contributing in other valuable ways because they slow other people down. I want to be able to say, the chord progression is D major, C major, F major, G major, and have you figure out something you can play. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it should work.


I think it's not that important to know modes and all that crap because let's face it, most people won't need it. But when you play a note, you should know which note you're playing. Conversely, when someone tells you to play a note, you should be able to play that note. You should also know the other places where that note can be found on the fretboard. That's not the theory you think of in terms of classes, but I just think it's practical knowledge that any serious guitarist should have or seek to have.
I've been playing guitar for just over four years now and I know what note I'm playing and I know at least five different ways to play a C major chord, so what's everyone else's excuse?

 

 

You are absolutely right. Please remember, though, not everyone is the same or has the same amount of time, money or aptitude. It's better to encourage others on the positive reasons why theory and reading music is good for them, rather than intimating that those that don't know as much in this area are less intelligent, motivated etc. In the end, that will be more motivating and encouraging to them, don't you think? Regards, Steadfastly

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I have no idea where some people think it's OK to know no theory at all. It's fine if you're the only songwriter in your group and you're expecting other people to emulate you, but people like that are extremely frustrating to work with for people like me and will be replaced at first opportunity unless they're contributing in other valuable ways because they slow other people down. I want to be able to say, the chord progression is D major, C major, F major, G major, and have you figure out something you can play. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it should work.


I think it's not that important to know modes and all that crap because let's face it, most people won't need it. But when you play a note, you should know which note you're playing. Conversely, when someone tells you to play a note, you should be able to play that note. You should also know the other places where that note can be found on the fretboard. That's not the theory you think of in terms of classes, but I just think it's practical knowledge that any serious guitarist should have or seek to have. I've been playing guitar for just over four years now and I know what note I'm playing and I know at least five different ways to play a C major chord, so what's everyone else's excuse?

 

 

 

Well for some, playing with others isn't part of the equation. if all you are doing is sitting around playing in your living room for your own enjoyment then it doesn't really seem like an issue if they don't know any music theory.

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I probably know the least about music than anyone on the Harmony Central forum.

 

I've noodled with guitars since the late 1960's and barely know the names of all six strings on a standard guitar. I've even dumped standard tunings for open tunings, that way I don't need to remember all those nasty three-fingered+ chord formations.

 

I never play with other people or sing, so I don't care what key I'm in....if I'm even in a key, which I'm generally not.

 

I'm not proud of my musical ignorance...but I quit caring about it a decade or two ago, and now I'm mostly just amused by it.

 

My life doesn't revolve around music and I'm content to not hear it most of the time. I almost never listen to music radio at work, can't stand 'classic rock', and several years ago, drove from Rapid City, SD. to Chattanooga, TN. and back and didn't turn the radio on or play a CD once during the entire trip.

 

It's an ironic trick of nature that I've found an odd little niche as a guitar designer...but what the hell, I've heard that 'Leo' didn't play guitar at all.

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I honestly don't know how those of you who claim to know no theory get by. That's not a put down btw, i just dont understand - how for instance do you transpose a song to a different key if you don't understand the function of the chords or progression? How do you pass musical information on to another if you play with others? I understand that You could figure out a lot of stuff on your own, but imho it makes life a hell of a lot easier to have a language for it, to knoww the formal system, whether one follow it or not.

 

That isn't to say that my knowledge is even remotely encyclopedic. In fact i probably don't know that much in the greater scheme of things but even a basic understanding of harmony, chord and scale construction etc go a long long way

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I honestly don't know how those of you who claim to know no theory get by. That's not a put down btw, i just dont understand - how for instance do you transpose a song to a different key if you don't understand the function of the chords or progression? How do you pass musical information on to another if you play with others? I understand that You could figure out a lot of stuff on your own, but imho it makes life a hell of a lot easier to have a language for it, to knoww the formal system, whether one follow it or not.

 

first and foremost, I suppose that it really helps to give a shit...which I don't. Of course my lax attitude towards this sort thing may be one of the reasons I'm a lousy-to- mediocre guitar player. I can live with that.

 

:wave:

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