Members 3 Headed Moses Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Is there a capacitor that adds warmth and fullness of tone? I know some people say the Orange drops are best for that but many also say they only add highs. I just want to bring out the most mid-range possible. Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by 3 Headed Moses Is there a capacitor that adds warmth and fullness of tone? I know some people say the Orange drops are best for that but many also say they only add highs. I just want to bring out the most mid-range possible. Thanks for the help. Some would say it doesn't matter a bit and have done the research http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/v...=10123&t=38417(FK puts on flame proof underwear and prepares for the discussion)edit to add, this assumes the same value in microfarads, of course. Since the tone pot-cap are a low pass filter, if you inncrease the value of the cap you loose more of the high frequency as you turn down the tone control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pine Apple Slim Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 I don't see how caps add anything. They take away highs, bleeding them to ground. At least thats how I understand the physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meowy Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 If you want to warm up your tone cheaply, use nickel wounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by Pine Apple Slim I don't see how caps add anything.They take away highs, bleeding them to ground.At least thats how I understand the physics. Caps are filters nothing more. I went with nickel wounds to get that warm midrange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wagdog Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 In a passive circuit, such as a STANDARD electric guitar, you cannot add anything, only take away. That is exactly what the "tone control, (aka low-pass filter) does in your guitar, bleeds highs off to ground (so you don't hear them). Despite what people say, the composition of a capacitor does not affect the tone. The actual capacitance value DOES. The knee frequency (where the lows are allowed to pass and the highs start going to ground) can vary from cap to cap. This variance may lead people to believe there is a difference in tone with different cap materials. I have found that lowering the cap value will allow more highs through, which in general gives your AMP more to work with and lets you work the tone a bit more with the amp. This can be perceived as "richer" because there are more frequencies there to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stewiesguitar Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 good info thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Armitage Posted December 12, 2012 Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 If you're the type who leaves his tone control on 10, don't waste your time. Most people can't tell if a cap is removed or shorted out while on 10, let alone different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3 Headed Moses Posted December 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 12, 2012 Originally Posted by Armitage If you're the type who leaves his tone control on 10, don't waste your time. Most people can't tell if a cap is removed or shorted out while on 10, let alone different. Thanks! From what I had read, I thought this was the case but I wanted some other first-hand accounts. You guys have helped a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Flatspotter Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by Armitage If you're the type who leaves his tone control on 10, don't waste your time. Most people can't tell if a cap is removed or shorted out while on 10, let alone different. Not entirely. It depends on the cap's value. My Cabronita has TV Jones Magna'Trons, and I first wired them up without a cap (there's no tone control). They were too bright, so I put a cap on it (wired just like a tone control on 10). I played around with a few values, and some made the pickups dull and muddy, some made almost no difference. I settled on a value that just took the edge off.Now that guitar kicks serious ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wayne2 Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by 3 Headed Moses Is there a capacitor that adds warmth and fullness of tone? I know some people say the Orange drops are best for that but many also say they only add highs. I just want to bring out the most mid-range possible. Thanks for the help. Orange Drops cost $1, are more consistant than ceramic caps, and are available with plated copper leads which are easy to solder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wagdog Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by Armitage If you're the type who leaves his tone control on 10, don't waste your time. Most people can't tell if a cap is removed or shorted out while on 10, let alone different. Sorry, but this isn't the case.The cap value DOES matter, even if your tone control is on 10. Less so if your tone control is a 1M pot, but it still does pull off some highs to ground. It matters more as the pot value goes down to 500k or 250k.I still maintain that the cap MATERIAL doesn't matter in a low-pass filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wayne2 Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by wagdog Sorry, but this isn't the case.The cap value DOES matter, even if your tone control is on 10. Less so if your tone control is a 1M pot, but it still does pull off some highs to ground. It matters more as the pot value goes down to 500k or 250k.. True. Doubters can just go try an American Standard Strat with no load tone control to hear this in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by Wayne2 True. Doubters can just go try an American Standard Strat with no load tone control to hear this in action. This is true, I brightened the tone of my Tele by going to a no-load pot and as a bonus got a little more gain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ermghoti II Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Dunno. I always swap in a variety of cap types when I'm optimizing a tone control, and I can always tell a difference among different types of the same nominal value. Tolerance? Different slope to the rolloff? Placebo? Can't say, but there's always a difference, and I don't always or even usually end up liking the "best" cap at my disposal for a given guitar/pickup combo. Russian PiOs are reasonable, and pretty consistently nice. I have a few old-stock US/European caps, sometimes they are just the ticket. Sometimes an Orange Drop wins. Whatevs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Belva Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by wagdog Sorry, but this isn't the case.The cap value DOES matter, even if your tone control is on 10. I still maintain that the cap MATERIAL doesn't matter in a low-pass filter. I disagree with the tone on ten thangThis one here has a Mean 90 and I set up the volume with a 500K P/P. I have an .047 on one lug and an .001 on the other with a lead going from the center lug to the tone control. When the tone is on ten I can't hear any difference between one position and the other. Roll it back and the difference is there in spades! Instant balls on the .001.I agree as far as material. Ain't no way it can make a noticeable difference. Unless of course, yer Eric Johnson of sumptin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 The logic behind no load pots is that there will always be some signal bleed off through the metalic ring inside the pot. I have seen people ty to make their own no load pots by making a small seperation in this ring just before the 10 thus preventing any bleed off. Not sure how good these home made no loads work. There is a difference that can be heard playng clean, as I often do ,straight into the amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3 Headed Moses Posted December 13, 2012 Author Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Thanks for the input guys. So, it would seem that I just need to experiment, same as any other aspect of guitar playing, to find the sound that suits me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted December 13, 2012 Members Share Posted December 13, 2012 Originally Posted by Freeman Keller Some would say it doesn't matter a bit and have done the research http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/v...=10123&t=38417 Thanks for posting this. GREAT link/resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wagdog Posted December 15, 2012 Members Share Posted December 15, 2012 Originally Posted by Freeman Keller http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/v...=10123&t=38417 Love the the test box this guy made:If that thing is real, damn, that is awesome!btw; I wired up my partscaster w/a tone cap disconnect (same as a no load pot). Neck pickup on a strat: With the (250k) tone pot on 10 I played. I then lifted the cap. Played. Not MUCH difference but just a hair more high end and an ever so slightly hotter signal. Switched to the bridge pickup and repeated, about the same results but a bit more high end was audible. This was in my basement w/a blues junior turned up to gig levels.If there were a bass and drums (or more instruments) going, I seriously doubt you would notice a difference, especially after playing for a couple of hours and fatiguing your ears.So there IS an audible difference with no tone control, but it's NOT much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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