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more about pickups: my Rickenbacker 330


Help!I'maRock!

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this is my Ric 330:

IMAG0252.jpg

i bought it in 2006, but it's never quite become my main player. great instrument, love the feel (especially with 11s), but the sound is just...off.

as you can see, it came with a set of "hi-gain" pickups. despite the name, they're actually quite low output. much lower output than my telecaster, which is outfitted with an SD Alnico II and Jerry Donahue set.

there are two main issues i have with the guitar:

1. the 5th knob only works on the neck pickup. it's like a redundant volume control instead of the blend pot (or master volume) it should be.
1a. it never fully goes down to zero. it'll cut the neck pup's output in half, but that's about it. you need to take it the rest of the way with the individual guitar volume.
1b. when both knobs are full on, the neck pickup is significantly louder than the bridge pickup.

2. the bridge pickup sounds kinda pinched. like there is a beautiful full range tone trying to get out, but something is preventing it from happening.


when i last brought the instrument to 30th Street Guitars, Matt felt like there was nothing wrong with the wiring.

so, what do we think the issues here are? bad pots? mixed up pickups? unrealistic expectations? and other than the last one ( icon_lol.gif ) how do i solve this?

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Quote Originally Posted by xrleroyx

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I dunno man. I had a 330 and I felt that 5th knob just got the {censored} in the way at all times. I did like the pickups, I threw them through some OD for a cool Strokes or Smiths toan.

 

i've been leaning towards re-wiring the 5th knob as a master volume pretty much since i got the guitar. i think i need to just do it. but that won't solve the volume imbalance.
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Not to be funny or anything, and it probably does not address your concerns, but I'd say to leave it intact and sell it. There are a lot of Rics out there that folks have altered trying to get a different sound or feel only to be dissatisfied with the outcome. There are still enough Ric fans who'd like the guitar as it is. I'd say see if you can find one of them and head in a different direction ...

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Quote Originally Posted by JRicoC

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Not to be funny or anything, and it probably does not address your concerns, but I'd say to leave it intact and sell it. There are a lot of Rics out there that folks have altered trying to get a different sound or feel only to be dissatisfied with the outcome. There are still enough Ric fans who'd like the guitar as it is. I'd say see if you can find one of them and head in a different direction ...

 

not gonna happen. the guitar plays like a dream and pickups and electronics can always be replaced. i have zero reverence for guitars as collectors items.
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I have a 360, well, duh, my avatar kinda demonstrates that. Sounds like you need to lower the neck pickup and raise the bridge pickup to achieve equal volumes when switching the pickup selector from bridge to neck.

The blend pot shouldn't kill the overall volume. It goes from full on bridge pickup (counterclockwise) to full on neck pickup (clockwise). It's not supposed to attenuate the volume. The pickup volume knobs do that.

Once your pickups are balanced regarding their output, you'll prolly love the blend pot. Well, maybe it's just me, but I love the 'effin thing.

Hope you get it sorted. It's a great color!!

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Quote Originally Posted by onerailunder View Post
I have a 360, well, duh, my avatar kinda demonstrates that. Sounds like you need to lower the neck pickup and raise the bridge pickup to achieve equal volumes when switching the pickup selector from bridge to neck.
the only way the neck pup can get any lower is if i remove the foam spacer. bridge is up as high as i'm comfortable with. any higher and it could hit the strings, which would only complicate things.


The blend pot shouldn't kill the overall volume. It goes from full on bridge pickup (counterclockwise) to full on neck pickup (clockwise). It's not supposed to attenuate the volume. The pickup volume knobs do that.

Once your pickups are balanced regarding their output, you'll prolly love the blend pot. Well, maybe it's just me, but I love the 'effin thing.

Hope you get it sorted. It's a great color!!
that's not how it works at all. it only works on the neck pickup. does nothing for the bridge. so the question becomes what exactly is the problem if this is how the instrument came from the factory?
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Quote Originally Posted by onerailunder

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It goes from full on bridge pickup (counterclockwise) to full on neck pickup (clockwise).

 

Which can be achieved with a traditional 2vol 2tone 3-way selection switch. I've never understood this concept of adding a knob that does that.
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I think you'd be happier by cutting out that knob all together and putting maybe a switch or a push/pull knob that could add some top or low end depending on your preference. Pulled it's on, pushed it's bypassed. Couldn't tell you how to do that. I don't know how useful a master volume would be since you have two volume knobs.

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I disagree, I really hate the way my Gibson kills the overall volume when I turn down just one of the pickup volume selectors. It suddenly gets both quiet and muddy. I much prefer to leave the volume and tone full up on both pickups and blend between the two. I think HoneyIsCool mentioned rewiring the pots to prevent the overall volume kill with one pot. Unfortunately my new guitar has a silly PCB board and I don't feel like removing it.

BTW xrleroyx. I've really dug your music when you've posted it previously.

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Quote Originally Posted by xrleroyx

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I think you'd be happier by cutting out that knob all together and putting maybe a switch or a push/pull knob that could add some top or low end depending on your preference. Pulled it's on, pushed it's bypassed. Couldn't tell you how to do that. I don't know how useful a master volume would be since you have two volume knobs.

 

it would be useful to me because i could blend the pickups how i wanted them and then control the instrument's overall volume with one knob. like a Gretsch where each pickup has it's own volume and then there's a master. the difference being that Gretsches have master tone knobs instead of individual tone knobs.
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Quote Originally Posted by Help!I'maRock! View Post
the only way the neck pup can get any lower is if i remove the foam spacer. bridge is up as high as i'm comfortable with. any higher and it could hit the strings, which would only complicate things.




that's not how it works at all. it only works on the neck pickup. does nothing for the bridge. so the question becomes what exactly is the problem if this is how the instrument came from the factory?
This is a bit of a wild assed guess, but I'm thinking perhaps the leaves on your input jack aren't making or breaking contact correctly when the cord is plugged in. It may be as simple as reorienting the jack within its cavity so there is enough space for the contacts to move and open and close properly. Alternatively, the contacts on the Ric-O-Sound jack may be inappropriately opened or closed.

Had a similar problem with mine.

I'd also encourage you to ask on the Ric Resource Forum.
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I've had my 1969 Rick 335 for 23yrs & recently started playing with the small 5th knob.
With the PU selector in mid position the 5th knob acts as a balance -but it seems to favor the bridge.
But on the neck PU selector, the 5h knob will cut volume/tone as well.
With the PU selector on the bridge PU, the 5th knob does nothing.
Was wondering too -is this normal?

Was wondering also what is this neck PU? One half has a metal bar & the other screws???


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Quote Originally Posted by onerailunder View Post
This is a bit of a wild assed guess, but I'm thinking perhaps the leaves on your input jack aren't making or breaking contact correctly when the cord is plugged in. It may be as simple as reorienting the jack within its cavity so there is enough space for the contacts to move and open and close properly. Alternatively, the contacts on the Ric-O-Sound jack may be inappropriately opened or closed.

Had a similar problem with mine.

I'd also encourage you to ask on the Ric Resource Forum.
it's a 330. there's no ric-o-sound.

additionally, when i proposed the master volume wiring scheme at Ric Resource some years ago, they nearly had my head.
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I have the blender on my 360. Works like a charm but I find it pretty unneccessary. My pickups seem to be pretty well balanced volume-wise. I have more problems with the output jack and have to plug and unplug a few times before both pickups are at the same volume. This may be the problem you are encountering. When it is not working right, I only get bridge pickup signal or very low neck pickup output.. I unplug and snap the jack in hard and then it works fine.

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Quote Originally Posted by Help!I'maRock! View Post
it's a 330. there's no ric-o-sound.

additionally, when i proposed the master volume wiring scheme at Ric Resource some years ago, they nearly had my head.
Were it my guitar, I would probably jumper the legs on the bridge volume pot and possibly tone pot and see if it made a marked difference. If it did, voila, bad pot, your bridge pickup sounds strangled and the blender knob doesn't do much. Alternatively, you could desolder the pot and measure its resistance and desolder the pickup and measure its resistance and rule them out.

You could also write to RIC and send it back. It does sound like something is clearly wrong given your description.

GREC: that's a humbucker stuffed into a Ric pickup cover. Shouldn't it have had toaster pickups in '69?
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Quote Originally Posted by Help!I'maRock! View Post
it's a 330. there's no ric-o-sound.

additionally, when i proposed the master volume wiring scheme at Ric Resource some years ago, they nearly had my head.
Were it my guitar, I would probably jumper the legs on the bridge volume pot and possibly tone pot and see if it made a marked difference. If it did, voila, bad pot, your bridge pickup sounds strangled and the blender knob doesn't do much. Alternatively, you could desolder the pot and measure its resistance and desolder the pickup and measure its resistance and rule them out.

You could also write to RIC and send it back. It does sound like something is clearly wrong given your description.

GREC: that's a humbucker stuffed into a Ric pickup cover. Shouldn't it have had toaster pickups in '69?
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Quote Originally Posted by onerailunder View Post
Were it my guitar, I would probably jumper the legs on the bridge volume pot and possibly tone pot and see if it made a marked difference. If it did, voila, bad pot, your bridge pickup sounds strangled and the blender knob doesn't do much. Alternatively, you could desolder the pot and measure its resistance and desolder the pickup and measure its resistance and rule them out.

You could also write to RIC and send it back. It does sound like something is clearly wrong given your description.

GREC: that's a humbucker stuffed into a Ric pickup cover. Shouldn't it have had toaster pickups in '69?
it's a 6 year old guitar. by RIC standards, it's out of warranty. there's nothing here a tech can't take care of.
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Quote Originally Posted by onerailunder View Post
Were it my guitar, I would probably jumper the legs on the bridge volume pot and possibly tone pot and see if it made a marked difference. If it did, voila, bad pot, your bridge pickup sounds strangled and the blender knob doesn't do much. Alternatively, you could desolder the pot and measure its resistance and desolder the pickup and measure its resistance and rule them out.

You could also write to RIC and send it back. It does sound like something is clearly wrong given your description.
+1

Howie, my 360 has Hi Gains, and the're some of the hottest pickups I've seen in single coils. They're as hot as some PAFs I've had. DC coil resistance isn't everything when it comes to pickup output, but I measured mine, and the coils measured 11.5K ohms. That's quite a bit more than a P90 (which is typically 8K ohms). It sounds to me like something's wrong with your wiring. It ould also be due to the frequency response being different (due to the picku design), making them sound off to you.
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I called Chris at Pick of the Ricks, which is where i bought the guitar from, and described my issue with the blender knob. he said it's working exactly as intended. that being the case, it's time for me to look into a master volume setup. there's no reason to have two knobs to work the volume on the neck pickup.

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I have a 650 that I had a love/hate with. Plays great but was struggling to get really rocking tones out of the humbuckers. I rewired it so the 2 tone knobs run as spin-a-splits, with a master blend and a master volume + the 3-way toggle.

This wiring gives me a huge range of tones between single-coil and full humbucker. I've found that a blend pot has a very nice sonic peculiarity - e.g. with the 3-way toggled to solo neck, when I turn the blend pot to favour the bridge, it rolls down the volume without muddying up the tone like rolling down the volume pot does.

Ric pickups are low output - which has some sonic advantages - so I use a clean-boost right at the beginning of my chain. No biggie - I need it for my strat and tele as well.

Many of the "blend" pots out there don't shut off completely on the extremes. I had this issue with StewMac and with Bourns. The only ones I've found that do are the generic blend pots at Allparts. But you have to put them on a meter to make sure they go zero to 100 because I've found some duds. Allparts will do an exchange though.

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From Rickenbacker's website:

All Rickenbacker pickups are
adjusted by two screws, one on
each side of the pickup. For the
standard high gain and super high
gain Rickenbacker pickups which
are mounted on a piece of flexible
foam rubber, as on series 300 and
600 guitars, only the middle screw
of the three screws on each side of
the pickup is used for readjustment. To lower the pickup, simply
tighten down each of the two
screws clockwise. To raise the
pickup, loosen both screws counterclockwise.
Additionally, all Rickenbacker
standard

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The way that fifth knob works is, when you have both pickups selected, it varies from full both pickups to just the bridge pickup. But, even if it's turned down, you can still switch to just the neck pickup and it still works. If you have the "blend" knob turned all the way down, it may be a bit quieter, but that's not a problem if the neck pickup is hotter.

It DOES allow you to do things that are impossible, or at least very difficult, with just the regular two volume controls. In my experience, when just using volume controls, there's a miniscule range of the control that serves to blend the signals, and as soon as you get beyond that, there's not much effect. The Rickenbacker fifth knob gives you a full sweep of useable blend.

If you don't like it, or it's not doing anything you feel you can use, just turn it all the way up, and it's like it's not there. But once I got the hang of it (I have a 360), I've found that mine is very useful. At one time I had a 330 that a previous owner had wired such that the fifth knob went the other way, i.e., it went from both pickups on full to just the neck pickup, but I put it back to stock wiring, because I like having the option of dialing in just a bit of extra thickness to go with the bridge pickup chime.

That doesn't address the possible problem you're having with your bridge pickup. The easiest way to figure out if it's broken or if its supposed to be like that is to find somebody else who has a Rick and compare. Or go into a store that carries them and try some. If you're in NYC, you've got options.

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