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  • #61
    There's a guy in my wife's band that is a worse player than me by far, has to watch the other guitarists hands, has no concepts of scales, doesn't learn on first try, vs me who doesn't have to be told anything and has a perfect ear and can play anything back, but his gear is right, his sound is flawless. My wife yelled at the band for letting him in over me, but truth is, his sound owned mine, whether my solos were better or not technically, and whether my melodies were better and more complimentary and interesting, his off solos sounded better with the right sound. Sigh. I just learned a hard lesson last week. They asked me if I was willing to play Lap steel. Lol. I haven't played lap in over 2 years.

    Im not saying gear>talent, but sometimes talent is knowing which knob to turn.


    A huge piece of this might be that they do not want a couple in the band, and, I'd have to sgree that in my experience, relationships in bands tend to make the band break up dhortly there after. Don't take it as a playing issue, it prolly has more to do with this.
    <div class="signaturecontainer">Good deals with - Yarbicus, CBH5150, BozzofAngels, Alvin Wilson, Harris Quinn<br />
    <br />
    Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.</div>

    Comment


    • #62
      Your friend sounds delusional :lol:

      I dont think that theres any correlation between gear and talent. Some one with a bucket load of talent could make any piece of gear sing, but of course "better" gear will sound "better" if you know what I mean.

      More gear can definitely inspire somebody and lead to them becoming more proficent- you know, right tool for the right job and all. I personally think that a lot of art comes from adversity. Its the struggles in life and dealing with those that makes us grow and stronger.

      As a sort of unrelated example- my first car was a bit of a mess. Faded paint, automatic gearbox, super thin tyres with no grip at all, front wheel drive, strange suspension (soft front, hard back). Despite all of this I absolutely loved that car. I learnt all of its intricacies and how to handle it and push it above and beyond its limits as a driver. The bad handling forced me to learn how to do things properly to compensate for it.
      My second car was a Mazda MX5/Miata which is renown for being an amazingly good handling car. It literally handles like its on rails. That car spoiled me. Its limits were far beyond my own- braking for corners was practically optional! I felt like all of those skills I had learnt in my old beater were going out the window becuase I didnt need them anymore and I was becoming a worse driver because the car allowed it.

      Do you think someone who has lived a spoilt, priveleged life would make a good artist? I dunno, like Prince William or whatever? Im not saying its impossible, but seems highly unlikely. Your friend seems like a know it all and therefore unwilling to learn so he wont improve with that attitude.
      <div class="signaturecontainer">Gear:<br />
      Cort m200 (with SD 59/JB combo)<br />
      Ampeg Dan Armstrong<br />
      Gibson Firebird Studio<br />
      Gibson Explorer x2 (natural/white)<br />
      Gibson LP studio<br />
      Squier Tele Custom II<br />
      Godin LG EMG<br />
      Hello Kitty Strat <img src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" /><br />
      Edwards LPC<br />
      Jackson COW 6<br />
      Jim Root Strat<br />
      ESP Eclipse I DBSB<br />
      Billy Corgan Strat<br />
      50s Tribute Goldtop HB<br />
      Squier Mini Strat <img src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/Totally_jammin_out.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Jammin'" class="inlineimg" /><br />
      Fender Cabronita Tele</div>

      Comment


      • #63
        It's nice to have terrific gear.
        It won't make you a better musician and it won't get you signed.
        I once saw the band Poco and Paul Cotton was their guitar player.
        From my high school days, I thought Paul Cotton was pretty good.
        Well, that night, Poco stopped playing the song and Rusty Young had to tune Paul's guitar. It was embarrassing.
        With all their expensive vintage and current gear, Paul didn't have a tuner. Maybe, I'm thinking too much.
        Paul Cotton acted as if he didn't want to be there. Well, I didn't want to be there.
        I remember Paul being good. I think he lost it.
        A really good guitar couldn't save him that night.
        <div class="signaturecontainer">i have come to the conclusion that he is some form of god. no mere mortal has that many guitars/pedals/amp/anything. &quot;It boggles my mind. His collection is the most glorious and true expression of GAS.To each his own though. Amazing collection of beauties. It takes some seriously messed up OCD to compile a collection like that.I hate BBreaker. Damn, I hate him.Suck it.We learned that bbreaker is some sort of god. A god of whine.fk this guy.<br />
        __________________</div>

        Comment


        • #64
          A huge piece of this might be that they do not want a couple in the band, and, I'd have to sgree that in my experience, relationships in bands tend to make the band break up dhortly there after. Don't take it as a playing issue, it prolly has more to do with this.


          I thought about that, but they invited me to play lap steel.... which I don't play really, I just noodle on. I just don't fit. But thanks Dean!

          (They are going to lose her in a month or two anyways, which is half of their song repertoire.... I'm moving us somewhere less, um, Ithaca)
          <div class="signaturecontainer"><div class="bbcode_container">
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          <div class="bbcode_postedby">
          <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>csm</strong>
          <a href="showthread.php?p=45357927#post45357927" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
          </div>
          <div class="message">You get a limited-edition self-relic'ing guitar at no extra cost and you're COMPLAINING?</div>

          </div>
          </div>
          </div> [Insert religious affiliation political party and or spiritual belief here]<br />
          <br />
          57 Gibson Cg-530, 66 Teisco Mosrite &quot;clone&quot;, 78 Rickenbacker something or other, 80's St. Blues, Classic Vibe 60's strat, Fender Blacktop HH strat, Switch Sig Stein, Switch Tele style, Austin SG, Yamaha something, lol.<br />
          Vox Ampeg Peavey Hartke Bogen and Bugera amps, every tube pedal i can find. Muff. Loopers.</div>

          Comment


          • gardo
            gardo commented
            Editing a comment

            themusicacademy wrote:

            Guitar Lessons Singapore -  Music courses program prepare to learn and play good Guitar with suggest by experienced instructors of instruments according your needs. The Music Academy is a Guitar Lessons provider in Singapore with comfortable environment of music learning and flourish. 


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        • #65
          On the other hand, talent -- if constructively engaged in lucrative musical employment -- can equal more gear (once you can afford it).
          <div class="signaturecontainer"><a href="http://charlesshaarmurray.com/" target="_blank">http://charlesshaarmurray.com/</a><br />
          <br />
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          <div class="bbcode_postedby">
          <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Spike</strong>
          <a href="showthread.php?p=26642125#post26642125" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
          </div>
          <div class="message">He's got his crust all stiff and upper with that nancy-boy accent. You Englishmen are all so ... bloody hell ... sodding, blimey, shagging, knickers, bollocks ... oh no, I'm ENGLISH!</div>

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          <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Lucio</strong>
          <a href="showthread.php?p=25548841#post25548841" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
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          <div class="message"> everyone has different gear and stuff like this tends to be quite subjective.</div>

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          <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Captain Jack Sparrow</strong>
          <a href="showthread.php?p=26642125#post26642125" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
          </div>
          <div class="message"> Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness.</div>

          </div>
          </div>
          </div> Honorary Granddaughter: FerdinandStrat</div>

          Comment


          • #66

            A really good guitar couldn't save him that night.


            Learning something as simple as how to tune his guitar would have saved him that night.
            Having a backup guitar would have saved saved him that night.
            Hiring a competent tech would have saved him that night.

            Even so, being out of tune that night didn't kill him and I think he's still a performing artist.

            Comment


            • #67
              A friend and I believe that it can, but for different reasons. I'll quickly outline the story to better understand where we're both coming from. He considers himself a "long time player", because we both got lessons at the age of eleven. He forgets that I started learning six years before that. And since I have no real social obligations anymore, I tend to hang out on my computer all day generally studying techniques and styles, along with about three to four hours practice a day. He believes that he only needs to see the technique once or see the tab once before he's ready to practice it for about fifteen minutes, then he's "mastered it". I wish I had comparison clips for you, but he keeps forgetting to record them for me.

              So then, my reasoning:
              I tend to buy guitars now based on the genres I associate them with. If they meet with the genre I want to learn, I buy it. For example, a HSH Ibanez is for metal, a SSS Strat is for blues and cleans, a LP type is for rockin' and buttery lead work. I take a very basic view on guitars-for-genres because it simplifies things for me. I can easily translate these skills onto other guitars, but generally I get the sounds I want from my basic views. When I have the sound, I get to practising. Then, obviously, I improve.

              His reasoning:
              He believes that the more gear he has and the better the quality of it (i.e. how much it's worth or how much it cost), the better his sound will be. The better the sound, the more he can get away with. For example, speedy, accurate lead work can be sloppy so long as there's enough distortion to hide it. Chord work can be sloppy so long as there's a good amount of reverb (which I don't quite understand), and cleans can be sloppy so long as there's a large use of effects like chorus, flange, delay etc etc.

              So to me, having more gear made me a better player, even if it was an unnecessary expense. I suppose if I didn't have such particular standards about tone in different genres, I could learn them all on one guitar. To me, it's about being inspired to learn the different styles by the instrument used. So I suppose it's equal parts image and tonal ability of the instrument. A flawed perception, but ultimately effective.

              What are your thoughts and opinions?


              Sounds like you're combining sound quality with a players performance quality.
              Its true the two often get lumped together and it is a goal for a player to have both,
              but you can look at it this way.

              If you have two recordings, one with great sound quality and tone and not so good
              performance, and another with poorer quality and a great performance, and you play back both,
              would a listener be able to determine whose a better musician?

              This tells you the ears have the ability to listen through bad sound quality and
              picture the performance in their minds eye. They can be listening to a small cassete
              speaker and determine whose talented.

              On the other hand, I learned a big lesson when I was in high school back in the 70's
              at a talent show. I had a really good band with some of the best talent. We lacked good
              equipment and made due with what we could scrounge together and did pretty good considering.
              We played with another band that could barely eak out three chords but had pro end gear with
              big V4 ampegs and did the loud Kiss type music.

              After the show I got feedback from people I knew and the consensus was, we had talent, but they had pro
              sound.

              Theres more to playing than notes. Performing includes acting and you dont have to be a great technical musician
              to capture a crowd playing live. You can do allot by putting on a good show like an actor does than by
              either sound quality or talent alone.

              Comment


              • #68
                You can't fake the funk, it makes no difference if you play an elastic band on a shoe box,
                or the most expensive guitar ever made. If you're ****************, you're ****************.

                Comment


                • #69
                  Playing gear does not equal more talent, merely more possibilities.
                  <div class="signaturecontainer"><i>Information is not knowledge<br />
                  Knowledge is not wisdom<br />
                  Wisdom is not truth<br />
                  Truth is not beauty<br />
                  Beauty is not love<br />
                  Love is not music.<br />
                  Music Is The Best.</i><br />
                  <br />
                  - Frank Zappa</div>

                  Comment


                  • #70
                    Learning something as simple as how to tune his guitar would have saved him that night.
                    Having a backup guitar would have saved saved him that night.
                    Hiring a competent tech would have saved him that night.

                    Even so, being out of tune that night didn't kill him and I think he's still a performing artist.


                    He was going through the motions.
                    If Rusty Young didn't stop the song, Paul would have played it out of tune from beginning to end.
                    Being there was a grind after that point. For whatever reason, I think Paul would have played out of tune the rest of the evening.
                    I was sitting really close to Paul and I felt like grabbing his guitar and tuning it.
                    He was really out of touch.
                    Just clueless.
                    You had to be there.
                    It was enlightening and disheartening at the same time.

                    If Paul Cotton is still a performing artist, he'll never get me into his audience again.
                    <div class="signaturecontainer">i have come to the conclusion that he is some form of god. no mere mortal has that many guitars/pedals/amp/anything. &quot;It boggles my mind. His collection is the most glorious and true expression of GAS.To each his own though. Amazing collection of beauties. It takes some seriously messed up OCD to compile a collection like that.I hate BBreaker. Damn, I hate him.Suck it.We learned that bbreaker is some sort of god. A god of whine.fk this guy.<br />
                    __________________</div>

                    Comment


                    • #71
                      He was going through the motions.
                      If Rusty Young didn't stop the song, Paul would have played it out of tune from beginning to end.
                      Being there was a grind after that point. For whatever reason, I think Paul would have played out of tune the rest of the evening.
                      I was sitting really close to Paul and I felt like grabbing his guitar and tuning it.
                      He was really out of touch.
                      Just clueless.
                      You had to be there.
                      It was enlightening and disheartening at the same time.

                      If Paul Cotton is still a performing artist, he'll never get me into his audience again.


                      He sounds wasted. I caught a show once, wow. The band actually started crying on stage during a song. I'd post it here but it's too painful. Video does exist.
                      <div class="signaturecontainer"><div class="bbcode_container">
                      <div class="bbcode_quote">
                      <div class="quote_container">
                      <div class="bbcode_quote_container"></div>

                      <div class="bbcode_postedby">
                      <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>csm</strong>
                      <a href="showthread.php?p=45357927#post45357927" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
                      </div>
                      <div class="message">You get a limited-edition self-relic'ing guitar at no extra cost and you're COMPLAINING?</div>

                      </div>
                      </div>
                      </div> [Insert religious affiliation political party and or spiritual belief here]<br />
                      <br />
                      57 Gibson Cg-530, 66 Teisco Mosrite &quot;clone&quot;, 78 Rickenbacker something or other, 80's St. Blues, Classic Vibe 60's strat, Fender Blacktop HH strat, Switch Sig Stein, Switch Tele style, Austin SG, Yamaha something, lol.<br />
                      Vox Ampeg Peavey Hartke Bogen and Bugera amps, every tube pedal i can find. Muff. Loopers.</div>

                      Comment


                      • #72
                        People tend to judge one's rightfulness to own gear by their technique.
                        Does technique mean the same as talent then ?
                        <div class="signaturecontainer"><font face="Verdana"><font size="1"><font color="slategray">&quot;The blues is the recognition of a tragedy, and the optimism to deal with it&quot; (Fruteland Jackson)<br />
                        <br />
                        &quot;You may think you're playing your instrument, but what you're really playing is the audience&quot; (anonymous)</font></font></font></div>

                        Comment


                        • #73
                          i've crunched the numbers, yes it's true



                          NO!!!!! It should be .8W - T :facepalm:
                          Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. - Plato

                          Comment


                          • #74
                            People tend to judge one's rightfulness to own gear by their technique.
                            Does technique mean the same as talent then ?


                            Why would anyone judge others? Because they're jealous? Sounds immature to me.
                            You can have good technique or bad. It doesnt mean you're talented.

                            I heard a description of talent once and it made more scense than anything Ive ever read.

                            People describe some as gifted. They have a talent for something. It may be sports, may be music,
                            or just about anything else for that matter.

                            We'll use a musician. He plays a song and its done so well. he makes it look so simple and people call him gifted
                            or was born with a gift. Bull****************. The musician makes it look simple because the one listening doesnt realize
                            the thousands of hours of practicing in back of that playing. They have no concept of all the hard work and dedication
                            it took to play thet 4 minuits song so they blow it off and call it a gift. Noones born a great musician. They may have an aptitude for it
                            because of the way thay were raised and the support they had as a child. They may also start very young and had great training as they grew up.

                            Music like sports needs woodshedding. Athletes go to training camp and get drilled by coaches.
                            Thay may work brutally to get to the top of that pyramid, paid well for that work and the big payoff of
                            getting thet touch down or home run is just icing on the cake. For musicians, it can be harder. Many dont take
                            formal lessons and are not driven to their fullest potential.

                            Some are luckey enough to team up with a band of musicians who are formally trained and mature enough to help
                            motivate each other to improve themselves. There are many more who do it for ego furfillment or to prove to others they
                            can do something better than others. That too can work up to a point but it can also decend into many bad things for the
                            karma if the musician isnt watchful of the pitfalls.

                            It can also be abused by unscrupulous individuals trying to cash in on that blind faith. You'll find that downward spiral at the heart
                            of every musician hooked on alcohol or drugs. They build their talent on the wrong foundation, backed by an ego and lust for praise.
                            The result is its just too easy for others to pull that rug out from under their feet. Study any great musician you want whose had
                            abuse problems and you'll find the same pattern over and over. Those who learn to break out of that and refocus on music for musics
                            sake learn to enforce the good habits and gradually care less and less about the bad ones.

                            Something like judging others gear is one of the first childish things every musician should overcome.
                            It instantly puts you on an even playing field with every other musician no matter what gear they have .
                            Neither you nor they can hide behind the gear when you take to a stage. Its not to say good gear cant enhance
                            a good performance. You just have to keep things in their proper perspective.

                            If you see yourself leaning towards envy, it means you are loosing contact with the things that make you a good performer.
                            If you're focused on your "own" performance and someone has better gear, its like Whoop De Do. If you are paying any mind
                            to it it means you're insecure. Let the fingers walk the walk and talk the talk.I dont care if you play the biggest piece of crap
                            made, if you play the crap out of it most musicians and listeners will give you a thumbs up. If you pull out a great guitar and
                            can barely the thing and expect your music to sound good just because you wear a gold chain around your neck, forget it.
                            it aint gonna work.

                            Comment


                            • #75
                              Why would anyone judge others? Because they're jealous? Sounds immature to me.
                              You can have good technique or bad. It doesnt mean you're talented.

                              I heard a description of talent once and it made more scense than anything Ive ever read.

                              People describe some as gifted. They have a talent for something. It may be sports, may be music,
                              or just about anything else for that matter.

                              We'll use a musician. He plays a song and its done so well. he makes it look so simple and people call him gifted
                              or was born with a gift. Bull****************. The musician makes it look simple because the one listening doesnt realize
                              the thousands of hours of practicing in back of that playing. They have no concept of all the hard work and dedication
                              it took to play thet 4 minuits song so they blow it off and call it a gift. Noones born a great musician. They may have an aptitude for it
                              because of the way thay were raised and the support they had as a child. They may also start very young and had great training as they grew up.

                              Music like sports needs woodshedding. Athletes go to training camp and get drilled by coaches.
                              Thay may work brutally to get to the top of that pyramid, paid well for that work and the big payoff of
                              getting thet touch down or home run is just icing on the cake. For musicians, it can be harder. Many dont take
                              formal lessons and are not driven to their fullest potential.

                              Some are luckey enough to team up with a band of musicians who are formally trained and mature enough to help
                              motivate each other to improve themselves. There are many more who do it for ego furfillment or to prove to others they
                              can do something better than others. That too can work up to a point but it can also decend into many bad things for the
                              karma if the musician isnt watchful of the pitfalls.

                              It can also be abused by unscrupulous individuals trying to cash in on that blind faith. You'll find that downward spiral at the heart
                              of every musician hooked on alcohol or drugs. They build their talent on the wrong foundation, backed by an ego and lust for praise.
                              The result is its just too easy for others to pull that rug out from under their feet. Study any great musician you want whose had
                              abuse problems and you'll find the same pattern over and over. Those who learn to break out of that and refocus on music for musics
                              sake learn to enforce the good habits and gradually care less and less about the bad ones.

                              Something like judging others gear is one of the first childish things every musician should overcome.
                              It instantly puts you on an even playing field with every other musician no matter what gear they have .
                              Neither you nor they can hide behind the gear when you take to a stage. Its not to say good gear cant enhance
                              a good performance. You just have to keep things in their proper perspective.

                              If you see yourself leaning towards envy, it means you are loosing contact with the things that make you a good performer.
                              If you're focused on your "own" performance and someone has better gear, its like Whoop De Do. If you are paying any mind
                              to it it means you're insecure. Let the fingers walk the walk and talk the talk.I dont care if you play the biggest piece of crap
                              made, if you play the crap out of it most musicians and listeners will give you a thumbs up. If you pull out a great guitar and
                              can barely the thing and expect your music to sound good just because you wear a gold chain around your neck, forget it.
                              it aint gonna work.


                              Good post.

                              Comment

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