Jump to content

Kicked off Craigslist twice for Les Paul Goldtop Chinese Copy.


epi56ebony

Recommended Posts

  • Members

Ok here's the backstory:

 

A few years ago a guy had a fake Chinese Les Paul on CL for $400. I have always been fascinated by these counterfeits so I bought it from him.

 

I didn't want to buy it directly from those under the radar auction sites where the price of the guitar is 200-300 with 100 dollars shipping because if you got a warped neck you were SOL.

 

So the CL was a chance to check one out and it was fine, Epiphone quality. Lots of errors if you looked close but not casually.

 

Today:

 

I decided to dump a bunch of guitars to make room in the home and I've had 2 waves (last year and now). On this second wave I decided the Fake LP should go, my curiosity was satisfied.

 

I put it on CL and there was a lot of interest but no takers (I started at $500 knowing people would try and bargain and then brought it down to $400 what I paid.). Got flakes and low ballers and a bunch of really nasty emails about what I was selling.

 

I made it very clear this was a fake and in no way tried to pass the LP off as real.

 

So the "Defenders of the good name of Gibson USA" police unit flagged me with CL and I was taken down twice this week.

 

I threw in the towel and decided since I had sold enough guitars/bass/amps that I could keep this one. I had made a lot of room too.

 

I then decided to do something I had been half-heartedly thinking of doing since I got the guitar, which was to upgrade it with high quality parts.

 

So today I talked to my guitar tech about the cost and if Gibson pickups would fit (he said no problem).

 

I got a set of Gibson Classic 57/Classic 57 plus on CL today for $150. Brought the guitar and pickups to my tech who upgraded the pots, new tune-o-matic bridge, switchcraft pickup selector switch and switchcraft jack and set it up.

 

This all came out to $370. So now I've got $770 invested in this fake.

 

Still cheaper than my 56 an 58 Les Paul Custom Shops though.

 

It was funny but the pickups in the guitar were Epiphone pickups, Epi imprinted on the back of the pups. Could this guitar have been made at the Gibson China plant late at night (greased palms!!).

 

I know there are a great many people upset by:

 

1. Chinese made guitars (due to our economy and loss of jobs)

2. Chinese Fakes (to add insult to injury mine even says "Made In The USA" the nerve!) Lots of people who walk only on the straight and narrow will be upset with the fakes

3. Gibson USA fans pissed off about the fakes

 

I understand their anger. I'm sure there will be some angry posts here too. For me, I have no moral qualms about owning or buying this fake. I've walked off the path of the straight and narrow occasionally and I enjoy living in the Gray.

 

I had a feeling I would get those nasty emails and get flagged. Was hoping to sell it before all this happened. But since I sold nearly 30 guitars/basses and amps I could splurge a little on my Fake "GIBSUN" Les Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 294
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Members

Not much to add, but good luck selling.

 

I've got a similar L5 copy that I bought off CL about a year ago much to the tune of how you got yours. Of course I've since replaced it with a much better (and more legal) hollowbody, and I'm not looking forward to the process of trying to sell it.

 

Back when I bought mine, I had emailed the guy within 5 minutes of him listing it. I can only hope for like-minded bidders when I try.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

I'm keeping mine which is why I decided to pay for all the upgrades.

 

 

My gf had her personal information stolen by some Nigerian {censored}er responding to a housing ad on CL. {censored}ing overseas predators all over that site. Make me sick

 

Ya can't blame guys for reporting u though....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Do you realise, that despite your lack of moral qualms, that you are trying to commit a crime?

 

It is illegal to sell counterfeit goods, even if you say they are counterfeit. Not sure about the US, but in the UK the penalty for a first offence is a fine, thereafter jail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

My gf had her personal information stolen by some Nigerian {censored}er responding to a housing ad on CL. {censored}ing overseas predators all over that site. Make me sick


Ya can't blame guys for reporting u though....

 

 

I was a bit pissed but I'm over it now, especially since I made the upgrades and decided to keep the guitar. I was a bit worried because you never know who you will meet but the guy I bought it from had me come to his house! I would never do that, always a busy meeting place where it takes a bit of time to get your car out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Do you realise, that despite your lack of moral qualms, that you are trying to commit a crime?


It is illegal to sell counterfeit goods, even if you say they are counterfeit. Not sure about the US, but in the UK the penalty for a first offence is a fine, thereafter jail.

 

 

Your point is well taken. It wouldn't bother me if someone bought it though, knowing it was a fake (I would be very upfront with that info). I sometimes drive over the Maximum Speed Limit in Califonia, buy stuff online from people out of state and when I was younger smoked weed and pimped for beer (asking someone older to buy) when I was in college and I talk on my cell phone in my car and I actually put the phone up to my ear as I don't have hands free.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Your point is well taken. It wouldn't bother me if someone bought it though, knowing it was a fake (I would be very upfront with that info). I sometimes drive over the Maximum Speed Limit in Califonia, buy stuff online from people out of state and when I was younger smoked weed and pimped for beer (asking someone older to buy) when I was in college and I talk on my cell phone in my car and I actually put the phone up to my ear as I don't have hands free.

 

Then you clearly belong in jail. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I don't know. I do think that a line is crossed when the actual name of the company is used and it says "made in the USA" on it. Of course I'm into the Japanese clones and don't care if the are shaped exactly the same....but at least they don't copy the name. But that's my bias.

 

Of course there are others here who will say any infringement anywhere of any kind...is a morally reprehensible act. And that is their bias...no matter what the law says, and how much they think it's 'right'. Laws like that are written by the people who want to benefit from them so it's hard for me to take them all that seriously. Protection of MONEY or an idea is not a human right, and not an issue of infringement of any freedom. It's simply a game made up by a class of people with rules that THEY think other people should have to follow. (and it's why nobody with even a slight shred of morality should ever care if countries produces generic copies of life saving drugs....{censored} big pharma and what they think they are entitled too.....all their R&D money is public anyway...but I digress)

 

And that is one of the inherent differences between US culture and Chinese culture. The Chinese see a game set up with 'rules' made by Americans to benefit Americans, and many times they just say "{censored} you, we won't play YOUR game...don't like it? Too bad. You want access to our cheap labor and to our market..then this is what you will have to deal with." Besides... It's not Chinese people BUYING these things in the US now is it? So obviously there are a significant amount of Americans who really don't care about the rules of the game either.

 

My personal take is that, in the end, for me it's about quality. If I thought Gibson made the best guitars of those styles with non exploited labor then I'd buy gibson. But I don't. I think the Japanese do. So I buy those. I don't give a {censored} what gibson or their fanboys think. Though, as I said, I wouldn't buy a Japanese guitar that said Gibson and wasn't.

 

I won't buy Chinese because I do think using the name is crossing a line, I try to support chinese labor practices as little as I possibly can, and I don't think the quality is that good anyway.

 

As for you...you live in a place that has people that want you to follow the 'rules' of their game. And their game says that what you bought is illegal by their rules. So you shouldn't be surprised that you're going to get flagged and reported etc etc.....You should have known that going in. It is what it is. You don't really have any reason to complain about your situation now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Good post and I for one respect your "truth in advertising approach. I hope you all of your upgrades are rewarded with a guitar you enjoy playing. I also hope you never compromise on your ethics and try to pass it off as real.

 

 

Never would, now that I WOULD have moral qualms about. Ripping people off...wrong, very very wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

A lot of great and funny posts. I'm not complaining about my situation, just started a thread to discuss...for fun, same reason I bought it.

 

And even though previously I made a joke that it says "Gibsun" the headstock clearly says GIBSON. Also the neck does not feel as nice as my Gibson Les Pauls but it's serviceable.

 

Today my Guitar Tech was just going down the line with what was incorrect on the guitar and the owner of the guitar store was fascinated by the Fake.

 

I like showing it to people then saying "but it's a fake!" and then point out the flaws.

 

But no one has commented that this Fake may have been made in Gibson's own chinese manufacturing plant!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

A lot of great and funny posts. I'm not complaining about my situation, just started a thread to discuss...for fun, same reason I bought it.


And even though previously I made a joke that it says "Gibsun" the headstock clearly says GIBSON. Also the neck does not feel as nice as my Gibson Les Pauls but it's serviceable.


Today my Guitar Tech was just going down the line with what was incorrect on the guitar and the owner of the guitar store was fascinated by the Fake.


I like showing it to people then saying "but it's a fake!" and then point out the flaws.


But no one has commented that this Fake may have been made in Gibson's own chinese manufacturing plant
!

 

 

which of course it could have, which then raises an interesting question.

 

As "fake" brand names clothes, shoes, bags, etc sold are often from the factories that make the "real stuff".

A lot of manufacturing plants have "overruns" and "seconds" that they "sell" for cash at discounted rates from the back door to market traders, in any country where stuff is made. Usually with the labels clipped or cut out.

 

Identical to the real thing in all respects except for following the manufacturers path to retail.

 

In some places, the term "knock-off" can mean either something stolen or something copied.

 

So do things become fakes when sold "unofficially" at less than the brand name company's price?

 

Or should we just be honest about it and call them stolen instead of faked?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

which of course it could have, which then raises an interesting question.


As "fake" brand names clothes, shoes, bags, etc sold are often from the factories that make the "real stuff".

A lot of manufacturing plants have "overruns" and "seconds" that they "sell" for cash at discounted rates from the back door to market traders, in any country where stuff is made. Usually with the labels clipped or cut out.


Identical to the real thing in all respects except for following the manufacturers path to retail.


In some places, the term "knock-off" can mean either something stolen or something copied.


So do things become fakes when sold "unofficially" at less than the brand name company's price?


Or should we just be honest about it and call them stolen instead of faked?

 

 

It might be an Epiphone "stolen" from the Epiphone factory in China but since it has a Gibson logo

and a Made in the USA stamp it's a counterfeit and fake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

It might be an Epiphone "stolen" from the Epiphone factory in China but since it has a Gibson logo and a Made in the USA stamp it's a counterfeit and fake.

 

 

Yes.

I wasn't just talking about this item - a more general terminology question.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Think of it this way- you're being upfront about the origin of the guitar and the fact it's a fake, but who's to say that whoever you sell it to will be? I could buy your guitar for $400, then turn around and try to sell it as a Gibson for $1250 ("I wouldn't be selling my baby, but I owe the mob some money and need quick cash"). That's why it's illegal to sell these things, even if you're honest about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

It was funny but the pickups in the guitar were Epiphone pickups, Epi imprinted on the back of the pups. Could this guitar have been made at the Gibson China plant late at night (greased palms!!).

 

 

I've heard that rumour multiple times. There comes a time when you start thinking that it is true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...