Members StompBoxLover Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 ... is the 24h waiting period between the coats. This stuff is unbelieveable, I just sanded the neck and applied one coat and already the result is amazing. Nice color, increased depth. It's a maple/maple neck, so it gets the full treatment - I want it to become golden and shiny. It will be fitted into a dark green Jazzmaster-style body, already the contrast is stunning. beginning tomorrow there will be pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members atrox Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 Been using it for years. While I do wait 24 hours for 2 of the 10 or so coats I give it (10 for bodies, 6 for necks), you only really need 2 hours between coats (or until it's not tacky anymore). I usually do 2 coats a day or 3 if I'm up late. Before the 5th coat, I wait 24 hours, buff with 0000 steel wool, then do it all again. Then tae it to my buffer which evens everything out nicely. Take like 3 days to for me to get 10 coats of solid, even finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StompBoxLover Posted March 20, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 Been using it for years. While I do wait 24 hours for 2 of the 10 or so coats I give it (10 for bodies, 6 for necks), you only really need 2 hours between coats (or until it's not tacky anymore). I usually do 2 coats a day or 3 if I'm up late. Before the 5th coat, I wait 24 hours, buff with 0000 steel wool, then do it all again. Then tae it to my buffer which evens everything out nicely. Take like 3 days to for me to get 10 coats of solid, even finish. gorgeous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thegamestop Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 I have been thinking of trying this for a project, where do you guys usually buy tru oil? Anything special to look for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members atrox Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 I have been thinking of trying this for a project, where do you guys usually buy tru oil? Anything special to look for? Most Walmart's have it in the gun section. i use it so much though, that I order giant bottles from the manufacturer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thegamestop Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 Thanks, I'll have to check it out today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JMR Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 Thanks, I'll have to check it out today. your sig,.... so great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Surfdude Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 A question. Do you use grain filler if finishing with Tru oil? Surfy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thegamestop Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 your sig,.... so great Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thegamestop Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 Do you apply it like stain with a rag or do you use a brush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mutant_guitar Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 Do you apply it like stain with a rag or do you use a brush? depends on who you ask. some people use their fingers, some use rags, and some use brushes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 I think the "Tru oil revolution" is a phenomenon that reflects what I've been discovering for years: That rub-on shellac/drying oil finishes make fantastic finishes for musical instruments. Back from the days of Stradivarius who used oil finishes with adjuncts dried in the sun, through the 1800's when furniture and musical instruments were all finished with French polish and shellac...these finishes have a long history of durability and quality sound. People clamor for nitrocellulose finishes over polyester these days....but both of those type finishes were created for reasons of economy and mass production rather than for their superiority in protecting and enhancing the looks and sound of a quality musical instrument. Nitro came along in the late 1920's when factories first discovered that spray finishing was faster/cheaper than the older French polish shellac finish. Martin guitars built before 1928 are all shellac finished, for example. Nitro does age better than poly, but it's a volatile compound that isn't stable.You can see this in old guitars because it hardens, crystalizes, yellows and shatters (finish checks) over time. Oil and shellac finished guitars don't do this. Oil and shellac encorporates and bonds into the wood over time in a way that enhances an old musical instrument, instead of separating and flaking away. People who "relic" guitars know that you just can't "relic" convincingly a modern poly finished "dipped in plastic" guitar. It never looks right. Well all I have to say is that those aging qualities that vintage guitar buffs prefer in nitro...it's all the more so with shellac and oil based rub on finishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pekelnik Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 A question. Do you use grain filler if finishing with Tru oil? Surfy This interests me a lot. I got tru oil + tru oil sealer. I read somewhere that some people think that applying tru oil straight on wood allows the oil to soak into the wood and make it sound more dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundcreation Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 I think the "Tru oil revolution" is a phenomenon that reflects what I've been discovering for years: That rub-on shellac/drying oil finishes make fantastic finishes for musical instruments. Back from the days of Stradivarius who used oil finishes with adjuncts dried in the sun, through the 1800's when furniture and musical instruments were all finished with French polish and shellac...these finishes have a long history of durability and quality sound.People clamor for nitrocellulose finishes over polyester these days....but both of those type finishes were created for reasons of economy and mass production rather than for their superiority in protecting and enhancing the looks and sound of a quality musical instrument. Nitro came along in the late 1920's when factories first discovered that spray finishing was faster/cheaper than the older French polish shellac finish. Martin guitars built before 1928 are all shellac finished, for example.Nitro does age better than poly, but it's a volatile compound that isn't stable.You can see this in old guitars because it hardens, crystalizes, yellows and shatters (finish checks) over time. Oil and shellac finished guitars don't do this. Oil and shellac encorporates and bonds into the wood over time in a way that enhances an old musical instrument, instead of separating and flaking away.People who "relic" guitars know that you just can't "relic" convincingly a modern poly finished "dipped in plastic" guitar. It never looks right. Well all I have to say is that those aging qualities that vintage guitar buffs prefer in nitro...it's all the more so with shellac and oil based rub on finishes. All though I don't have an oil finish, I agree completely with your post. I believe resonance is important therefore thickness of finish is important so as to not choke the guitar as much as possible. It's just simply logical that an oil finish would be the best for this. But between nitro and poly I'd take the thinner one..which 98% of the time will be nitro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pekelnik Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 Anyone else has any idea whether it is better to seal the wood (swamp ash) or not to seal it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members atrox Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 Grain filler- You can use tru-oil sludge as a grain filler. it works very well. get about 5 coats on, wet sand, push resulting sludge into grain just like you would a grain filler, repeat as necessary, give finishing coat. Application- I use rags. i find you get a more even coat and can kinda buff it as you go along. Drawback is you get less on per coat. Just find the method that works best with you. It's hard finish to mess up. Sealer - I don't use one, but I see no reason why not. Some people you a wax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Quarter Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 Given normal temps and conditions, you can recoat TO in a couple hours. The "trick" is to not slop it on there, full and even light coats works best. I use a combination of wiping on with a 3" x 3" swatch of cotton T-shirt to build body and lightly wet sand with 1000 grit and mineral spirits in the morning before that days coats. For the final couple coats, I'll spray a coat, let dry overnight, then wet sand with 1500, and finally move to 2000 before the last spray. Once the last coat is on, I let it cure 5 - 6 days, then rub it out with their stock and sheen, (a light pumice type abrasive in a liquid vehicle), then polish it out with a high quality swirl remover like Novus or 3M Finesse-It II. All in all it takes me about 3 weeks to do a mirror finish with TO. Truth is nitro would be easier, but I just love how True Oil brings wood to life. This would be the extreme end of what you can do with True Oil and is not necessarily the only way to achieve great results. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Quarter Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 Grain filler- You can use tru-oil sludge as a grain filler. it works very well. get about 5 coats on, wet sand, push resulting sludge into grain just like you would a grain filler, repeat as necessary, give finishing coat. Application- I use rags. i find you get a more even coat and can kinda buff it as you go along. Drawback is you get less on per coat. Just find the method that works best with you. It's hard finish to mess up. Sealer - I don't use one, but I see no reason why not. Some people you a wax. As Atrox mentioned, a sealer is not necessary, but sometimes I'll do a couple wash coats / sealer coats of some amber shellac flake for color. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pekelnik Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 Oh my. Your lapsteel builds are just awesome. So my planned procedure is to use birchwood and casey sealer first, then tru oil, in the end wipe it with lemon oil (that is the same as the mineral oil you use, right?) That sounds alright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 I'm not of the opinion that oil finishes "deaden" the sound of a guitar. As a matter of fact, the famous legendary finish of Stradivarius' violins was a drying oil-based finish. He cured them by hanging them in the sun. (when you use some oil finishes without hardening adjuncts, you experience the one drawback: long curing times. UV accelerates this process but Stradivarius sometimes had to wait weeks based on his journals) Oil finishes harden up and incorporate into the wood structure.Of course there are sometimes other adjuncts that harden the finish further like shellac, which dries harder than poly when it ages a few years. Shellac flakes shatter like glass if you've ever seen them. Electric guitars get their sound from lots of factors...but finish has got to be the LAST on the list. Even with acoustic guitars I've had good results with the sound, feel, and aging properties of French polish. Oil based finishes and shellac don't need a separate "sealer". The one substance takes care of everything. The only issue is filling. If it's a hardwood with small pores like maple, ash, or alder, you might get away with not filling. On more open pore woods like mahogany, koa, and rosewood: you might have to washcoat with shellac, pore fill with either a commercial paste filler or pumice powder and shellac, and then clearcoat over this with more shellac and buff.Of course stain before the washcoat if you're doing that. I usually never pore fill a guitar neck. The grain orientation there doesn't show pores much and I think it ruins the feel and wear properties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 Yea I think a rubbed-on finish makes that flame and figure "pop" more because it gets worked DEEP into the wood filling every pore and fiber more than any spray can do. It makes "AA" flame maple or koa look "AAAA" Another contributing factor is that since it's all one finish from sealer to final coats...it acts optically with a uniform "index of refraction" so that the light transmits through the finish better. I've gotten some koa finished to the point that the flame actually MOVES based on your position viewing it like those old "3-D baseball cards" (remember getting those in your cereal?) Rubbed on finishes don't feel plastic or sticky. They feel like well worn wood that's been used over time. They feel like your own skin. If you've never experienced it you might just check out antique furniture. Most stuff made before 1930 is finished by hand rubbing instead of spray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pekelnik Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 Grain filler- You can use tru-oil sludge as a grain filler. it works very well. get about 5 coats on, wet sand, push resulting sludge into grain just like you would a grain filler, repeat as necessary, give finishing coat. So you do 5 regular coats (in about 2 days) and then sand them all the way down and push the resulting stuff into the pores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scud133 Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 (img) Yea I think a rubbed-on finish makes that flame and figure "pop" more because it gets worked DEEP into the wood filling every pore and fiber more than any spray can do. It makes "AA" flame maple or koa look "AAAA" Another contributing factor is that since it's all one finish from sealer to final coats...it acts optically with a uniform "index of refraction" so that the light transmits through the finish better. I've gotten some koa finished to the point that the flame actually MOVES based on your position viewing it like those old "3-D baseball cards" (remember getting those in your cereal?) Rubbed on finishes don't feel plastic or sticky. They feel like well worn wood that's been used over time. They feel like your own skin. If you've never experienced it you might just check out antique furniture. Most stuff made before 1930 is finished by hand rubbing instead of spray. is it weird that i'm aroused? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members _pete_ Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 This is a timely thread.I have an unfinished Warmoth neck coming next week and I'm undecided on the finish.I have a bottle of Tru Oil and a can of catalyzed lacquer and can't make up my mind which I want to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Quarter Posted March 20, 2010 Members Share Posted March 20, 2010 Great information! Lovely pics!What about a maple neck with a rosewood fretboard? Do I tape off the rosewood fretboard and frets and only apply the Tru-oil to the maple?Looking at getting an unfinished neck for a project in a few months.Thanks! I don't like True Oil on a rosewood board and would tape it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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