Chinese replica guitars counterfeits?

[bluesmann]

 I feel this is the best thing that has happened in A very long time. chinese replicas guitars. all the big boys like jipson, fendire and so on imo have priced themselves rate out of the musicians hands. I've heard all the BS for why. and if we went back to 1950 and figured in all the equasions their priced right for today. Bull crap! CNC machines come into the picture and wah la! the buyer may get a better guitar if they have a plek machine. For no one want to put any time in doing any good fret work unless their making 1000's and even then its hit and miss.

Johnny guitar comes along making 8 bucks an hour and wants his dream guitar. but Dam! it unjustifably 1000's more than it should be. Johnny guitar is real discouraged and can't afford a guitar over 599 . Who comes to the rescue? china does. Guys ! go do your research and get that guitar you always wanted. its not against the law to buy chinese guitars. Some even say gibson and fender on them. If I had a place to put them, I'd buy 4 or 5 of them. spend a 100 on pickup and less than that on a fret leveling if it needed it  and I'd be good to go. you can spend your money anyway you choose.

IMO the big companies asked for it. bunch of greedy pigs. You can stick your R whatever and stick it up your jabooglela. I saw what 2500.00 got me out of Jipson, a returned trip to Washington Dc.

 

go get your dream guitar boyz, their making them as good if not better. seen it ! and they play great. i''d love to have a real lester paul but Jipson wants 5 to 6 grand for their chunk of wood steel and magnets if not more. China is selling like crazy.

[mistersully]

imagine a world where troll threads didn't achieve their desired reaction... is it even possible?.... i wonder

[bluesmann]

Its truly how i feel, call it troll if you want too. many others are fed up too. Just because you don't agree with it, move on and don't come in here with some negitive comment.

[bluesmann]

Jipson might even be getting in on the game now. buy them from china and do a little bit of work to them.

they'll make millions more.

[6down1togo]

 

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bluesmann wrote:

 

 

 I feel this is the best thing that has happened in A very long time. chinese replicas guitars. all the big boys like jipson, fendire and so on imo have priced themselves rate out of the musicians hands. I've heard all the BS for why. and if we went back to 1950 and figured in all the equasions their priced right for today. Bull crap! CNC machines come into the picture and wah la! the buyer may get a better guitar if they have a plek machine. For no one want to put any time in doing any good fret work unless their making 1000's and even then its hit and miss.

 

Johnny guitar comes along making 8 bucks an hour and wants his dream guitar. but Dam! it unjustifably 1000's more than it should be. Johnny guitar is real discouraged and can't afford a guitar over 599 . Who comes to the rescue? china does. Guys ! go do your research and get that guitar you always wanted. its not against the law to buy chinese guitars. Some even say gibson and fender on them. If I had a place to put them, I'd buy 4 or 5 of them. spend a 100 on pickup and less than that on a fret leveling if it needed it  and I'd be good to go. you can spend your money anyway you choose.

 

IMO the big companies asked for it. bunch of greedy pigs. You can stick your R whatever and stick it up your jabooglela. I saw what 2500.00 got me out of Jipson, a returned trip to Washington Dc.

 

 

 

go get your dream guitar boyz, their making them as good if not better. seen it ! and they play great. i''d love to have a real lester paul but Jipson wants 5 to 6 grand for their chunk of wood steel and magnets if not more. China is selling like crazy.

---

 

 

Sure, the Chinese are making Gibson counterfeits that are just a good as the real thing. If you tell yourself this often enough you may start believing yourself. I am willing to bet you have never seen one much less played one.

Out of curiosity, I bought one a few years back. It was worth the $300 as a novelty and source of amusement but certainly not even up to Epiphone standards. It became a $300 wall hanger and conversation piece even after swapping in a pair of GFS pickups and doing a complete setup. It was unplayable as-received. Not played badly, unplayable. It fretted out every note above the third fret. A truss rod adjustment took care of it and it played about as well as an Epiphone. The fretwork was actually pretty good too. The inside of the guitar was an oozing mess of glue joints covered in automotive undercoating but who looks inside, right? The tuning keys looked just like Gibson Keystone Grovers but had about 1/4 turn of backlash in them and made grinding noises when you turned them. I could have replaced them but once it was tuned it seemed to hold OK. It looked like a Gibson except the sunburst was all wrong and the "Supreme" scroll-logo on the headstock looked like it was penned by a third grader and actually said "Sumpreme". I sold it after I read the maker had gone to prison for making counterfeits.

So go get your dream guitar boyz, as you say. For about $300 plus pickups and setup you can have a guitar that is not quite up to Epiphone standards but says Gibson on it. That's right kids, you can fool your friends and yourself into thinking you got a Gibson for $300+. If customs doesn't inspect and confiscate it, you'll have years of pleasure gazing at it hanging on the wall. I actually wish I had kept mine just as a curiosity but who needs the feds following a trail of emails from a convicted counterfeiter and knocking your door down to confiscate your guitar?

 

[gardo]

If someones playing skill is at a level where he can't tell the difference , he should buy a cheap copy

A good one would just be a waste..

[bluesmann]

 

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6down1togo wrote:

 

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bluesmann wrote:

 

 

 I feel this is the best thing that has happened in A very long time. chinese replicas guitars. all the big boys like jipson, fendire and so on imo have priced themselves rate out of the musicians hands. I've heard all the BS for why. and if we went back to 1950 and figured in all the equasions their priced right for today. Bull crap! CNC machines come into the picture and wah la! the buyer may get a better guitar if they have a plek machine. For no one want to put any time in doing any good fret work unless their making 1000's and even then its hit and miss.

 

Johnny guitar comes along making 8 bucks an hour and wants his dream guitar. but Dam! it unjustifably 1000's more than it should be. Johnny guitar is real discouraged and can't afford a guitar over 599 . Who comes to the rescue? china does. Guys ! go do your research and get that guitar you always wanted. its not against the law to buy chinese guitars. Some even say gibson and fender on them. If I had a place to put them, I'd buy 4 or 5 of them. spend a 100 on pickup and less than that on a fret leveling if it needed it  and I'd be good to go. you can spend your money anyway you choose.

 

IMO the big companies asked for it. bunch of greedy pigs. You can stick your R whatever and stick it up your jabooglela. I saw what 2500.00 got me out of Jipson, a returned trip to Washington Dc.

 

 

 

go get your dream guitar boyz, their making them as good if not better. seen it ! and they play great. i''d love to have a real lester paul but Jipson wants 5 to 6 grand for their chunk of wood steel and magnets if not more. China is selling like crazy.

---

 

 

 

 

Sure, the Chinese are making Gibson counterfeits that are just a good as the real thing. If you tell yourself this often enough you may start believing yourself. I am willing to bet you have never seen one much less played one.

 

Out of curiosity, I bought one a few years back. It was worth the $300 as a novelty and source of amusement but certainly not even up to Epiphone standards. It became a $300 wall hanger and conversation piece even after swapping in a pair of GFS pickups and doing a complete setup. It was unplayable as-received. Not played badly, unplayable. It fretted out every note above the third fret. A truss rod adjustment took care of it and it played about as well as an Epiphone. The fretwork was actually pretty good too. The inside of the guitar was an oozing mess of glue joints covered in automotive undercoating but who looks inside, right? The tuning keys looked just like Gibson Keystone Grovers but had about 1/4 turn of backlash in them and made grinding noises when you turned them. I could have replaced them but once it was tuned it seemed to hold OK. It looked like a Gibson except the sunburst was all wrong and the "Supreme" scroll-logo on the headstock looked like it was penned by a third grader and actually said "Sumpreme". I sold it after I read the maker had gone to prison for making counterfeits.

 

So go get your dream guitar boyz, as you say. For about $300 plus pickups and setup you can have a guitar that is not quite up to Epiphone standards but says Gibson on it. That's right kids, you can fool your friends and yourself into thinking you got a Gibson for $300+. If customs doesn't inspect and confiscate it, you'll have years of pleasure gazing at it hanging on the wall. I actually wish I had kept mine just as a curiosity but who needs the feds following a trail of emails from a convicted counterfeiter and knocking your door down to confiscate your guitar?

 

 

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Actually that why i said do your research, there are many seller out there selling them. You'll know a good one when you see it. CNC has changed everything.Except the price here in america. 350.00 to 500.00 gets you something pretty darn good. I'm amazed at what i saw. It wasn't a epiphone either .y was a Paul guitar and a strat to the tee. Be it moral in your opinion or not , its coming and its getting better. I wish i had room but I have 9 guitars already. A les paul isn't a les paul because it bears the name gibson, I think Prs proved that one.. BTW i didn't start this thread to fight with anybody but to tell those guy like me that couldn't afford that 6 to 10 grand les  paul. Prices have gotten way out of hand. but yet they'll let us buy their junk for a grand. screw them, we'll go to china

[Frets99]

If ignorance really is bliss, there is a lot of happiness here. - Fortune cookie

 

I don't really care where a person buys a guitar from. It's their money. I do care if an item is being sold as another item. The same hardworking consumer who has saved his money to buy the guitar of their dreams shouldn't have to worry that the Gibson or Fender they are buying on the used market is not the real thing. Make any guitar you want, short of copyright infringement and slap your own name on the headstock and I have no problem with guitars made anywhere.

 

[kayd_mon]

I agree with Frets. Everyone makes Strat, Tele, and LP clones. Even some of those MIJ LPs have the same exact contours and headstock shape - but at least they don't say "Gibson" on them.

 

You're saying that it's good that there are counterfeits? That all we need to do to get our dream guitar is pay a Chinese bootlegger for a fake? Well then. It must also be ok to achieve my dream job - to sit on my ass all day doing nothing and get paid for it - I would just have to have a Chinese bootlegger print up some money for me. It's just as good, right?

[uab9253]

I sort of get what the OP is saying. Sometimes companies do almost "ask for" the bootlegging.  When Lacoste brought the gator back and it was at Macy's @ $90-100 retail, for a shirt made in South America, Ebay became flooded with 20 dollar fakes.  I bought one and did a side by side with a real one and there were very little difference.  Why not just get a no brand polo shirt for $20 to begin with?  Because people want to pretend they are wearing a $100 polo shirt.  I'm not excusing it, just adding to the explanation.

 

There are good, non-counterfiet guitars all day long out there, in the $400-$800 range that are built and play amazingly well.  All my LP's are Epi's - some are stock and a couple I upgraded pickups and hardware.  But they play about as well as the actual Gibby.  Almost all the makers have decent offerings, either lite versions of famous and more expensive models, or models that stand on their own and play great.

But it doesn't say Gibson on the headstock.  So you don't get to pretend you're better than the next guy.  Instead, you hang your head in shame and play your heart out on your ESP-LTD axe. I'll take that choice anytime, but yes a company can overshoot on price and create their own counterfeit headaches.

[bluesmann]

 

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Frets99 wrote:

 

 

If ignorance really is bliss, there is a lot of happiness here. - Fortune cookie

 

 

 

I don't really care where a person buys a guitar from. It's their money. I do care if an item is being sold as another item. The same hardworking consumer who has saved his money to buy the guitar of their dreams shouldn't have to worry that the Gibson or Fender they are buying on the used market is not the real thing. Make any guitar you want, short of copyright infringement and slap your own name on the headstock and I have no problem with guitars made anywhere.

 

 

---

 

its getting very hard to tell the differents. you have to really know what your doing now. being it is getting that close why buy a used one for 1000's when someone's doing it for 1/10th or less. you do have a valid point.

[bluesmann]

 

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kayd_mon wrote:

 

I agree with Frets. Everyone makes Strat, Tele, and LP clones. Even some of those MIJ LPs have the same exact contours and headstock shape - but at least they don't say "Gibson" on them.

 

 

 

You're saying that it's good that there are counterfeits? That all we need to do to get our dream guitar is pay a Chinese bootlegger for a fake? Well then. It must also be ok to achieve my dream job - to sit on my ass all day doing nothing and get paid for it - I would just have to have a Chinese bootlegger print up some money for me. It's just as good, right?

---

 

If they're making a gibson guitar to the exact specs as the gibson, it truly is a gibson guitar without getting into the legal stuff. gibsons are probably made by some of these same factories that are making these fine gibsons instruments. People are just pissed because low wage earners can now get what cost 1000's in the U.S. for 350.00 to 500.00. I remember when i could buy a used gold top for 400.00. I'm tired of the little guys getting f'd. If gibson moved its plants over to china and sold the product in the US they'd still cost the same. Hourly workers and all that goes with it, is about 10% of the products cost. I said hourly workers.

[mistersully]

 

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mistersully wrote:

 

 

imagine a world where troll threads didn't achieve their desired reaction... is it even possible?.... i wonder

---

 

apparently not

[warriorpoet]

Here, OP.  This is a link that to improve your argumentation skills.  I have noticed a good number of these in your posts thus far, and frankly, I'd rather help than holler.

 

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/659/03/

[kayd_mon]

When I first joined HCEG, threads promoting counterfeits were against the rules. Just saying.

[bluesmann]

 

no one is really promoting anything but this has seemed to have turned into a les paul thing. I see gibson Les Paul as a class warfair thing. Poor people are not allowed to have one basically. there's more guitars being copyed than just a Les Paul. I personally don't like Les Pauls or strats. I like the godin copys which is more like a mix of the two. a short scaled strat with a tele /les paul kind of shape. that's my guitar. this is about replica guitars or some call the counterfeits. I call them a good deal for people that can't afford the orignals. none of them are exact copys but IMO some are made better and at a price it should be. John the hourly worker can't afford the stupid outrageous prices their asking for the orignal counterfeits so a lot of people are buying replicas and from what i've see good ones. the seems to tic some people off. I buy replica silver coins. their not orignals but their still .999 pure. no one gets upset over that do they? I see no difference other than some dick wants to keep little joe from having his dream guitar. tuff shi-

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kayd_mon wrote:

 

When I first joined HCEG, threads promoting counterfeits were against the rules. Just saying.

---

 

 

[Gitter]

 

On principle, I don't like them.

 

Irrational or not (the answer is: yes, irrational) consumers put enormous value on brands. The result of this consumer delusion is that brands get to sell their 'name' for enormous markup over the intrinsic value of their actual product.

The 'name' guitar world exists on this phenominon alone. Asians have no inherent disability when it comes to making guitars, other than misguided perceptions.

The catch, obviously, is that these 'really good fakes' introduce a deeply negative element into the aftermarket. Right now is a golden age for fraudsters in this realm since the percentage of people on the lookout for fakes is proportionally miniscule compared to people who just want the name on the headstock and aren't willing or able to delve into the minutiae.

 

Wrong and unfair though it may be, I can't help but snicker a bit under my breath at these guitar companies that have been positively hosing consumers for decades now, flogging 'brand mysticism' and the magical powers inherent to their guitars, get the curtain pulled back on their bull{censored} by a few dishonest Chinamen in a foriegn guitar factory.

[bluesmann]

 

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Gitter wrote:

 

 

On principle, I don't like them.

 

 

 

Irrational or not (the answer is: yes, irrational) consumers put enormous value on brands. The result of this consumer delusion is that brands get to sell their 'name' for enormous markup over the intrinsic value of their actual product.

 

The 'name' guitar world exists on this phenominon alone. Asians have no inherent disability when it comes to making guitars, other than misguided perceptions.

 

The catch, obviously, is that these 'really good fakes' introduce a deeply negative element into the aftermarket. Right now is a golden age for fraudsters in this realm since the percentage of people on the lookout for fakes is proportionally miniscule compared to people who just want the name on the headstock and aren't willing or able to delve into the minutiae.

 

 

 

Wrong and unfair though it may be, I can't help but snicker a bit under my breath at these guitar companies that have been positively hosing consumers for decades now, flogging 'brand mysticism' and the magical powers inherent to their guitars, get the curtain pulled back on their bull{censored} by a few dishonest Chinamen in a foriegn guitar factory.

---

 

 I can't help but snicker a bit under my breath at these guitar companies that have been positively hosing consumers for decades now, flogging 'brand mysticism' and the magical powers inherent to their guitars, get the curtain pulled back on their bull{censored} by a few dishonest Chinamen in a foriegn guitar factory.

 

yes in deed! agreed

[larryguitar]

 

"Irrational or not (the answer is: yes, irrational) consumers put enormous value on brands. The result of this consumer delusion is that brands get to sell their 'name' for enormous markup over the intrinsic value of their actual product.

The 'name' guitar world exists on this phenominon alone. Asians have no inherent disability when it comes to making guitars, other than misguided perceptions.

The catch, obviously, is that these 'really good fakes' introduce a deeply negative element into the aftermarket. Right now is a golden age for fraudsters in this realm since the percentage of people on the lookout for fakes is proportionally miniscule compared to people who just want the name on the headstock and aren't willing or able to delve into the minutiae.

 

Wrong and unfair though it may be, I can't help but snicker a bit under my breath at these guitar companies that have been positively hosing consumers for decades now, flogging 'brand mysticism' and the magical powers inherent to their guitars, get the curtain pulled back on their bull{censored} by a few dishonest Chinamen in a foriegn guitar factory."

 

Don't really understand the free market, do you?

 

If 'Gibson' =/= value (to you) then you don't buy one. (I don't, by the way. Not usually great guitars for the $$, IMHO.)

That does NOT negate the fact that their reputation and cachet have value to some; you can't 'hose' someone who willingly pays your asking price, now can you?

 

Again, and for real this time, I'm out of this conversation. After your parents, your teachers and your friends failed to teach you the inherent underpinnings of morality and ethics, there's no way I will via an internet forum.

"Do what thou will" is, obviously, "the whole of your law."

[kayd_mon]

Hey larryguitar, maybe you should post some pics of that build in a new thread, since not everyone will see them here. Looks awesome!

[bluesmann]

 

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kayd_mon wrote:

 

Hey larryguitar, maybe you should post some pics of that build in a new thread, since not everyone will see them here. Looks awesome!

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Sure got you here didn't it. Mr. Mom

[kayd_mon]

Mr Mom?

 

I've been following this thread since the beginning. I've even posted a couple times.

[bluesmann]

 

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kayd_mon wrote:

 

Mr Mom?

 

 

 

I've been following this thread since the beginning. I've even posted a couple times.

---

 

I missed  Mr. Mon, My typing isn't real good either. but Diatribe the strawman caught on fire.

[centaur31]

hey everyone,

 

there's no conflict here. bluesmann never said that he was getting a replica. I think he means that the Chinese will make you a guitar as per your specs. if you have any exposure to law, be aware that it is perfectly legal to sell replicas, more so because it is sold as a 'copy' no question on claiming to be original. people have loads of notions about China (I'm not on any side).

 

fact is, with China it is a case of u-get-what-u-payfor. they have the ability to make the best smart phones and gadgets and they'll make you one for ten bucks if you ask for one but don't expect it to be anygood. :-) . I have got certain things sourced from there and they are total vfm !!

I'm

[larryguitar]

NO, even if you call it a 'replica' it is what it is; a counterfeit. And by placing a trademarked name or logo on it, you ARE representing that it's genuine-otherwise why would you place the name or logo on it?

 

Seriously, did you read the thread? It IS ILLEGAL, regardless of your preferences.