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Agile/SX/Douglas owners... this guy wants to whup ur ass

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  • Agile/SX/Douglas owners... this guy wants to whup ur ass

    Scott Groves is highly regarded by many as a guitar historian, and expert..... but he has a major problem with Agile/SX/Douglas and Xaviere guitars.....he suggests throwing them in the garbage......he will have no problem telling you why.....(although he does say that SX are far superior to Agile):

     

    Scott will also tell you not to be afraid to buy a Samick..... some of the Gibson USA models, sold as Gibson USA....was made a Samick.

    Ibanez, Washburn, ....all made by Samick

    What's the best way to eat a frog? Put one leg over each ear.<br><br>

  • #2

    Well he can have his own opinion, but I'm not about to junk my xaviere guitar beacuse he happens to have a Sammick fetish. I own Fender, Gibson, Peavey, Xaviere, Squier and Ibanez guitars, and the one thing I've learned is that EVERY company is capable of producing both gems and turds, there is no surefire company that will be 100% on at all times. As for him complaining about modding guitars, That I will tell him to **** off on. Players have been tinkering with their guitars since they first started building them, and that's lead to some gtreat innovations in new gear. There is no cookie cutter guitar that everyones going to be happy with, alot of people are going to have to customize their rig before they get what they want...

    All in all, I think i'll just continue to aquire gear (regardless of where it's made and whats on the headstock) by how it sounds and feels, regardless of whether my choice is criticized by a Mountain Men reject

    <div class="signaturecontainer">WTB: Seymour Duncan Convertible Amp Modules. If you have any modules, please PM me with your asking price. Thank You<br />
    <br />
    Good Traders: drivelikejoewho, BluesTuesday<br />
    <br />
    Proud member of the <font color="Red"><font size="3">Epiphone Empire</font></font></div>

    Comment


    • benzem
      benzem commented
      Editing a comment
      I don't think he is considered by many to be anything more than an angry blowhard.

  • #3

    mental illness + exposure through the internet.... not a pretty combination

    Comment


    • docjeffrey
      docjeffrey commented
      Editing a comment
      Unfortunately, his 50 word vocabulary limits his ability to tell us why all of these guitars are total crap. The best I could glean is that roller bridges, staggered tuners, non-back tilted necks and graphite necks are the only game (s) in town; but don't you dare mod your guitar with, for example, a roller bridge because it won't be worth more that $50 when you are finished.

      He isn't quite bright enough to understand how roller bridges kill tone and sustain or that locking tuners are mostly a waste of money.

  • #4
    Haters gon' hate.

    Groves is poster boy for what too many drugs do to you long term

    Comment


    • #5

      I just watched a bunch of this guys videos, and for someone with such strong opinions (not to mention a warehouse full of gear) he sure has some awful tone.  Not to mention just mostly being a windbag wanker.

      I guess it just comes back to this:  if it sounds/feels good it is good and other peoples opinions come cheap.  I for one am thrilled that we are living in a time when less expensive gear can and does rival the established "big boys" and give players choices they didn't have before. 

      <div class="signaturecontainer">I'm Brian of Nazareth</div>

      Comment


      • gardo
        gardo commented
        Editing a comment

        I never did give the guy a listen because he's no one to me so why would his opinion matter.   Of course the video might have value as comic entertainment.


      • kayd_mon
        kayd_mon commented
        Editing a comment
        lol the guy says Agile wrong.

        ok I'm going to watch the rest of the video now

    • #6
      I made it through half the video yesterday, then my wife came home and it was dinner time. I forgot to watch the rest. But it was funny, thanks for posting.

      Also, the video requires that you know the link to watch it - how'd you manage that?
      <div class="signaturecontainer"><b>Guitars:</b> 3 Fender Strats, Fender Jazzmaster, Squier Bullet, 2 Gibson Les Pauls, Gibson ES-339, Gibson Les Paul Jr. Special, Epiphone Les Paul, Epiphone Dot, Epiphone SG, PRS SE Custom 24, Ibanez AS73, Hamer Duotone, Larrivee D-03R, Takamine EG5013S, 1951 Epiphone Devon, Ibanez SR305 (bass)<br><br><br><br><b>Pedal Chain:</b> BBE Green Screamer -&gt; MXR Distortion III -&gt; Boss CE-5 -&gt; EH Stereo Pulsar -&gt; Boss DD-20 -&gt; BBE Boosta Grande<br><br><br><br><b>Amps:</b> Vox AC4, AC15, AC30, Pathfinder 10, DA5<br><br><br><br><a target="_blank" href="http://soundcloud.com/andrewalderman">SoundCloud</a></div>

      Comment


      • Danhedonia
        Danhedonia commented
        Editing a comment
        It's barroom conversation for sure, but has absolutely nothing to do with music.

    • #7
      Well, I used a few minutes of my lunch break to finish the video.

      First, it's hilarious, so thanks for posting.

      Second, I think he only made one valid point, when he said that upgrades don't add resale value to a guitar, which is usually true.
      <div class="signaturecontainer"><b>Guitars:</b> 3 Fender Strats, Fender Jazzmaster, Squier Bullet, 2 Gibson Les Pauls, Gibson ES-339, Gibson Les Paul Jr. Special, Epiphone Les Paul, Epiphone Dot, Epiphone SG, PRS SE Custom 24, Ibanez AS73, Hamer Duotone, Larrivee D-03R, Takamine EG5013S, 1951 Epiphone Devon, Ibanez SR305 (bass)<br><br><br><br><b>Pedal Chain:</b> BBE Green Screamer -&gt; MXR Distortion III -&gt; Boss CE-5 -&gt; EH Stereo Pulsar -&gt; Boss DD-20 -&gt; BBE Boosta Grande<br><br><br><br><b>Amps:</b> Vox AC4, AC15, AC30, Pathfinder 10, DA5<br><br><br><br><a target="_blank" href="http://soundcloud.com/andrewalderman">SoundCloud</a></div>

      Comment


      • DarkHorseJ27
        DarkHorseJ27 commented
        Editing a comment

        I see Scott Grove as an example of how someone can say something completely, even obviously, factual and people will disagree simply because they don't like the person saying it.

        And before strawmen or those with poor reading comprehension respond,  I'm not implying that everything he says is factual, nor am I indicating whether or not he deserves the hate he gets.


    • #8
      Well he may have made a valid point in the first half, but I watched that part a couple days ago. I only remember laughing at the bold statements of opinion represented as facts, regular insults to his audience, and the way he says "Agile." This in particular is even funnier when he calls the people watching the video dumb MFers, and insists he knows what he's talking about.

      All in all, a hilarious video. Some true statements, lots of his own opinions, and loads of comedy.

      But more importantly - @dr scottie c - where did you get the link? The video is unpublished on youtube!
      <div class="signaturecontainer"><b>Guitars:</b> 3 Fender Strats, Fender Jazzmaster, Squier Bullet, 2 Gibson Les Pauls, Gibson ES-339, Gibson Les Paul Jr. Special, Epiphone Les Paul, Epiphone Dot, Epiphone SG, PRS SE Custom 24, Ibanez AS73, Hamer Duotone, Larrivee D-03R, Takamine EG5013S, 1951 Epiphone Devon, Ibanez SR305 (bass)<br><br><br><br><b>Pedal Chain:</b> BBE Green Screamer -&gt; MXR Distortion III -&gt; Boss CE-5 -&gt; EH Stereo Pulsar -&gt; Boss DD-20 -&gt; BBE Boosta Grande<br><br><br><br><b>Amps:</b> Vox AC4, AC15, AC30, Pathfinder 10, DA5<br><br><br><br><a target="_blank" href="http://soundcloud.com/andrewalderman">SoundCloud</a></div>

      Comment


      • Dr. Scottie C
        Dr. Scottie C commented
        Editing a comment

        kayd_mon wrote:
        Well he may have made a valid point in the first half, but I watched that part a couple days ago. I only remember laughing at the bold statements of opinion represented as facts, regular insults to his audience, and the way he says "Agile." This in particular is even funnier when he calls the people watching the video dumb MFers, and insists he knows what he's talking about.

        All in all, a hilarious video. Some true statements, lots of his own opinions, and loads of comedy.

        But more importantly - @dr scottie c - where did you get the link? The video is unpublished on youtube!

        I pulled the video from youtube.... i dont know what you mean by unpublished.

         


    • #9
      He's just an ****.

      Comment


      • #10
        When I clicked on it to watch it on youtube's site, it said that. Maybe the status of the video changed after you posted it.

        I watched a few more of his videos, and I noticed that he was playing guitars that didn't have graphite necks, staggered tuners, or roller bridges and nuts.
        <div class="signaturecontainer"><b>Guitars:</b> 3 Fender Strats, Fender Jazzmaster, Squier Bullet, 2 Gibson Les Pauls, Gibson ES-339, Gibson Les Paul Jr. Special, Epiphone Les Paul, Epiphone Dot, Epiphone SG, PRS SE Custom 24, Ibanez AS73, Hamer Duotone, Larrivee D-03R, Takamine EG5013S, 1951 Epiphone Devon, Ibanez SR305 (bass)<br><br><br><br><b>Pedal Chain:</b> BBE Green Screamer -&gt; MXR Distortion III -&gt; Boss CE-5 -&gt; EH Stereo Pulsar -&gt; Boss DD-20 -&gt; BBE Boosta Grande<br><br><br><br><b>Amps:</b> Vox AC4, AC15, AC30, Pathfinder 10, DA5<br><br><br><br><a target="_blank" href="http://soundcloud.com/andrewalderman">SoundCloud</a></div>

        Comment


        • Chordite
          Chordite commented
          Editing a comment

          I thought his video on tuning was interesting.His problem is :_

          He never takes a minute to say what can be said in an hour

          However it comes down to tune strings as hard as you normaly play them because when you tune soft and play hard the notes will be slightly sharp. (watching the tuner needle that does seem to be the case!) He also has some specific issue with the G string that I haven't quite got my head around.


      • #11
        Yeah I don't think that the fretboard has any real perceivable effect. Parkers with synthetic fretboards manage to sound exactly like guitars with wooden fretboards.
        <div class="signaturecontainer"><b>Guitars:</b> 3 Fender Strats, Fender Jazzmaster, Squier Bullet, 2 Gibson Les Pauls, Gibson ES-339, Gibson Les Paul Jr. Special, Epiphone Les Paul, Epiphone Dot, Epiphone SG, PRS SE Custom 24, Ibanez AS73, Hamer Duotone, Larrivee D-03R, Takamine EG5013S, 1951 Epiphone Devon, Ibanez SR305 (bass)<br><br><br><br><b>Pedal Chain:</b> BBE Green Screamer -&gt; MXR Distortion III -&gt; Boss CE-5 -&gt; EH Stereo Pulsar -&gt; Boss DD-20 -&gt; BBE Boosta Grande<br><br><br><br><b>Amps:</b> Vox AC4, AC15, AC30, Pathfinder 10, DA5<br><br><br><br><a target="_blank" href="http://soundcloud.com/andrewalderman">SoundCloud</a></div>

        Comment


        • Dr. Scottie C
          Dr. Scottie C commented
          Editing a comment

          Agree on the fretboard thing....ie:

          SRV played "Lenny" studio version on #1 with the rosewood fretboard...... usually played it live with the "Lenny" maple fretboard red strat....sounds the same.

          Groves is a average to very slightly above average player at best.... but those seem to be the guys that make the most money with lessons.


      • #12
        Well, many times the best teachers in regular school don't necessarily know everything about their given subjects. Teaching is a skill/art, and some people are just great at it. Maybe this guy is like that. I didn't watch any of his lesson videos, so I can't comment specifically.
        <div class="signaturecontainer"><b>Guitars:</b> 3 Fender Strats, Fender Jazzmaster, Squier Bullet, 2 Gibson Les Pauls, Gibson ES-339, Gibson Les Paul Jr. Special, Epiphone Les Paul, Epiphone Dot, Epiphone SG, PRS SE Custom 24, Ibanez AS73, Hamer Duotone, Larrivee D-03R, Takamine EG5013S, 1951 Epiphone Devon, Ibanez SR305 (bass)<br><br><br><br><b>Pedal Chain:</b> BBE Green Screamer -&gt; MXR Distortion III -&gt; Boss CE-5 -&gt; EH Stereo Pulsar -&gt; Boss DD-20 -&gt; BBE Boosta Grande<br><br><br><br><b>Amps:</b> Vox AC4, AC15, AC30, Pathfinder 10, DA5<br><br><br><br><a target="_blank" href="http://soundcloud.com/andrewalderman">SoundCloud</a></div>

        Comment


        • Gitter
          Gitter commented
          Editing a comment

          Teaching is DEFINITELY a talent. I realize this because I've tried it and am awful at it.

          He's an interesting character for sure. I've casually observed him over the years; his content output is just so prolific, his opinions so sharp that naturally he draws fire and commentary from the peanut gallery. Also, he has an odd personality type and will go into 'defensive-insulting-dbag' mode at the drop of a hat.

          Still,  he's made some keen observations that are well outside 'internet guitar forum narrative' but line up identically with my own conclusions. For example, certain Japanese guitars from the 1980s and their going-price-to-relative-quality ratio being just ridiculously off-kilter. He's putting his money where his mouth is with his guitar collection and has stated this a few times. He realizes this era in guitarmaking is insanely under-appreciated and in this particular niche, he's one of the people who's capable of seeing what's to come. In the years to come, he's going to make money off a lot of those guitars.

          I don't go so far as to bash people who buy entry level contemporary guitars. To the contrary, their cost to quality level blows me away and I sure wish I had that available when I was coming up but from a capital-efficiency standpoint, no doubt whatsoever those same people would get a ****************load more value buying 80s era vintage.

           

           


        • gardo
          gardo commented
          Editing a comment

          kayd_mon wrote:
          Well, many times the best teachers in regular school don't necessarily know everything about their given subjects. Teaching is a skill/art, and some people are just great at it. Maybe this guy is like that. I didn't watch any of his lesson videos, so I can't comment specifically.

          I have to agree with this. My daughter's flute teacher does not even play flute yet she is the top flutist in her school by far. It's about a knowledge of music and understanding the mechanics then communicating this to the student


      • #13
        He has a video where he heartily recommends a Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro. He says it plays perfect out of the box due to the Plek job, has coil splitting, and locking tuners. Granted, the neck isn't graphite, and it doesn't have a roller bridge or nut, but he does recommend it.

        I just think this guy is hilarious. I wonder how serious he is, since he insults his audience so much, and makes such absolute claims that he obviously doesn't believe (look at his collection - full of guitars he knocks in the video).
        <div class="signaturecontainer"><b>Guitars:</b> 3 Fender Strats, Fender Jazzmaster, Squier Bullet, 2 Gibson Les Pauls, Gibson ES-339, Gibson Les Paul Jr. Special, Epiphone Les Paul, Epiphone Dot, Epiphone SG, PRS SE Custom 24, Ibanez AS73, Hamer Duotone, Larrivee D-03R, Takamine EG5013S, 1951 Epiphone Devon, Ibanez SR305 (bass)<br><br><br><br><b>Pedal Chain:</b> BBE Green Screamer -&gt; MXR Distortion III -&gt; Boss CE-5 -&gt; EH Stereo Pulsar -&gt; Boss DD-20 -&gt; BBE Boosta Grande<br><br><br><br><b>Amps:</b> Vox AC4, AC15, AC30, Pathfinder 10, DA5<br><br><br><br><a target="_blank" href="http://soundcloud.com/andrewalderman">SoundCloud</a></div>

        Comment


        • Dr. Scottie C
          Dr. Scottie C commented
          Editing a comment

          kayd_mon wrote:
          He has a video where he heartily recommends a Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro. He says it plays perfect out of the box due to the Plek job, has coil splitting, and locking tuners. Granted, the neck isn't graphite, and it doesn't have a roller bridge or nut, but he does recommend it.

          I just think this guy is hilarious. I wonder how serious he is, since he insults his audience so much, and makes such absolute claims that he obviously doesn't believe (look at his collection - full of guitars he knocks in the video).

          Guys..... don't take everything so literal.....

          It's not like Groves had a 8 inch boner on for the Modulus guitar in that video.....or even brought that guitar up until he happened to grab it.

          He simply grabbed one of his 2,000 pieces that happened to be hanging nearby, and pointed out some high end features on it, but then stated that even the $2,000 Modulus wasn't perfect.

          At no point did he say "every guitar must have a graphite neck and roller bridge and nut"..... he just as easy could have grabbed one of his 15 Parkers hanging there and pointed out the resin and carbon glass neck on it, with stainless steel frets.....

          In that video I posted.... Groves simply points out that in his opinion Rondo guitars don't deserve your money, other brands (such as PRS SE) do.


      • #14
        He did say that if you bought a guitar without_____ features that you were stupid.
        <div class="signaturecontainer"><b>Guitars:</b> 3 Fender Strats, Fender Jazzmaster, Squier Bullet, 2 Gibson Les Pauls, Gibson ES-339, Gibson Les Paul Jr. Special, Epiphone Les Paul, Epiphone Dot, Epiphone SG, PRS SE Custom 24, Ibanez AS73, Hamer Duotone, Larrivee D-03R, Takamine EG5013S, 1951 Epiphone Devon, Ibanez SR305 (bass)<br><br><br><br><b>Pedal Chain:</b> BBE Green Screamer -&gt; MXR Distortion III -&gt; Boss CE-5 -&gt; EH Stereo Pulsar -&gt; Boss DD-20 -&gt; BBE Boosta Grande<br><br><br><br><b>Amps:</b> Vox AC4, AC15, AC30, Pathfinder 10, DA5<br><br><br><br><a target="_blank" href="http://soundcloud.com/andrewalderman">SoundCloud</a></div>

        Comment


        • #15

          I don't know what part of the Asian guitar industry Agile guitars come from, if they're from one of the Chinese factories or if they're Korean.


          Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Spec is spec whether its met in the US, Canada, Germany or a CNC shop in India. Making production guitars is not a rarefied proprietary skill as the instrument fetishists like to believe. Add certain refinements to spec, cost goes up. Remove certain refinements from spec, cost goes down. The objective is to find a cost/quality equallibrium where you arrive at 'good enough' for the least possible money.


          Go on AliBaba and shop, bid your spec around and be floored at how many Asians can make precisely what you want at whatever spec you desire for a price that is literally 1/10th what the EXACT SAME THING would cost to be made here in the United States. Fender realized this in the 80's when the Japanese could make a better guitar than Fender for less money so they farmed it out ... but shortly realized just how much weight superstition and 'marketing beliefs' has in the guitar world. See, it doesn't actually matter what's credibly 'better' or 'worse'. What matters is how people 'feel' about their purchase. There's a ****************load of money to be made in that intellectual cess-pool. For some people 'good enough' is an alien concept. To them, the smug, internal satisfaction of knowing that a family of Black Forrest craftsmen toiled for weeks to craft their $1100 tuning keys is what its all about. Not what the tuning keys are actually supposed to accomplish.

          The morons chanting their dated old mantras about the magical powers of US guitarmaking aren't very intelligent or rational people. Perhaps they're just reallty inexperienced. Either way, the world we live in today is very different than the world of yesteryear. If you need simplifying idealogies in your life in order to purchase things, expect people smarter than you to exploit that and get you to pay more for the exact same thing that could be had elsewhere for less money.

          I know I rant about this all the time but I'm starting to appreciate what Galileo must've felt when he realized the earth revolved around the sun while every shreiking retard  insisted that the good lord god wouldn't ever allow such a thing.

          Comment


          • DarkHorseJ27
            DarkHorseJ27 commented
            Editing a comment

            Gitter wrote:

            I know I rant about this all the time but I'm starting to appreciate what Galileo must've felt when he realized the earth revolved around the sun while every shreiking retard  insisted that the good lord god wouldn't ever allow such a thing.


            Lat bit really made me chuckle.  I can't tell you how many times I said something completely factual only to have people look at me like I have two heads.


          • Knutsaq
            Knutsaq commented
            Editing a comment

            Gitter wrote:

            I don't know what part of the Asian guitar industry Agile guitars come from, if they're from one of the Chinese factories or if they're Korean.


            Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Spec is spec whether its met in the US, Canada, Germany or a CNC shop in India. Making production guitars is not a rarefied proprietary skill as the instrument fetishists like to believe. Add certain refinements to spec, cost goes up. Remove certain refinements from spec, cost goes down. The objective is to find a cost/quality equallibrium where you arrive at 'good enough' for the least possible money.


            That's a lot of truth right there.   I picked up one of those horrible Agiles recently and it is easily as good or better than most of the Gibson Les Pauls I have owned over the years for a fraction of the cost (literally less than 1/10th of what the last LP Standard I owned cost).  

            If it plays good and sounds good it is good and no amount of Hide Glue and Analine Dye false mojo will change that.



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